The Unofficial Mamod and Other Steam Forum

Manxman · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: Butcher Rollers

Well this got to me very quickly and I now own my second Butcher Roller. Here's a couple of pics of my two engines together.

Unfortunately, it has also had it's paint touched up in places but I'm still pleased with the model. That label on the back, I just don't feel is original and I'm not sure it really helps with the history of these engines.

Now it's always funny how these things work but my other parcel in the post today was a book, British Tin Toys. An ok book and a little bit about toy steam including this advert.

Now at first glance you think nothing to do with Butcher. The book says the firm was around from 1916 - 1925. After WWI they had a lot of unused factory space, skilled workers and few orders. So they started to make toys. They made 7 types of steam driven vehicles.

Now have a look at this photo, taken at STIA 2007. These are reported to be Butcher models. Look at the Steam Wagons, with load and without load.

I'm sure these are the same as the ones in the ad. So the questions are:
1) Is Butcher and Tribe & Astin the same firm?
2) Are these toys older than I figured?
3) Have I made an unfair leap and do they not connect?

If any one can help, please do.
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scorpion2nz · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:19 pm Post subject:

well they do look very much the same but loaded truck in photo has short chimney and loaded truck in advert has long chimney but apart from that the all look the same .Not unknown for toys to be made by some one and also sold under another name thus to the unaware who must collect all makers end up with 2 the same

scorpion2nz · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:27 pm Post subject:

also roller in add appears to have no steering rod on right side off machine

scorpion2nz · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:29 pm Post subject:

other half just asked me is this one off those spot the difference puzzles

do i win a chocolate fish?

duncandumpertruck · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 8:58 pm Post subject:

Rob · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:14 pm Post subject:

looks a nice engine, was it the one from ebay a few days back? what engine is the brown traction engine in the bottom pic? would it be possible to send me some pics of her? looks sweeeet.

James · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:39 pm Post subject:

Superb!! Love them!

Pleased you got it!!
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Atticman · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject:

Agree glad you got it Chris- interesting theory there as well, I think you may be onto something (but then so did I on the Falk and mamod MM1

)

Kritika · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 10:40 pm Post subject:

You got it Chris

That’s brilliant and a nice addition to your collection mate. I think you are on to something with the 1920 catalogue, needs further research I think.
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bessytractor · Posted: Fri Jun 06, 2008 11:45 pm Post subject:

I love Butcher rollers

they always looked so realistic to me, they got the shape exactly right.
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tmuir · Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 1:45 am Post subject:

I saw that Butcher and thought about bidding on it for for a few seconds but quickly realised it would go beyond my budget, glad you won it as I figured you would probably bid on it.
I agree the trucks are the same as the advert, its possible that the covered truck lost its original chimney which is why it is short.

Now the mystery deepens with the Butcher engines.

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Manxman · Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:19 am Post subject:

Wallace · Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:24 am Post subject:

I really like them, full of character
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Manxman · Posted: Sat Jun 07, 2008 6:26 am Post subject:

Thanks for the comments. Over the years and out of all of the toy steam mobiles I've seen. These are the only Yorkshire Style Steam Wagons I've ever come accross.

But even with this little advert, the history is still real difficult. I can't get anything on the internet about Tribe & Astin.

The only Butcher I can find is a firm called W Butcher & Sons Ltd, from Camera House, Farrington, London, England. I have a reference to them making Cameras and Magic Lanterns in about 1915. They also seem to have owned some Meccano type toy that traded under the name of Primus Engineering. I can't find any reference to them making steam toys.

The bit that's really frustrating is that Fred Crammond knows the guy with all the Butcher models in that pic. I sent the man a letter last year with Fred going as a go between but got no answer.

and this year, the guy didn't even bring his Butcher mobiles to STIA. How sad is that.
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MamodFan · Full member Joined: 23 Nov 2006 Posts: 974