The Unofficial Mamod and Other Steam Forum

logoman · Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 11:34 am Post subject: Proto Techno

Masataka Kugimiya sent me his latest catalog this morning, and it contains some interesting new engines, in particular a V4 and interesting boiler.

Proto Techno is Kugimiya's one man model business in Tokyo, he has also developed very nice external combustion or Stirling engine to propel his 'River Boat'.

Check out the single cylinder slide valve 'Lake Boat', I like the way he has made heat efficiency by incorporating the cylinder into the boiler.

Enjoy the quality and inventiveness of of his work, it is unknown outside Japan.

http://www.t-proto.co.jp/index.html

IndianaRog · Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:18 pm Post subject:

Clever designer that man!!!
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Sandman · Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 1:44 pm Post subject:

That does look top quality.

Quite ingenious ideas as well.
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duncandumpertruck · Posted: Tue Oct 20, 2009 7:24 pm Post subject:

Ohh! This stuff is right up my street! Great looking engines. Do you have anything on order yet Miles?!

mogogear · Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 3:54 am Post subject:

Miles- If you got a price list from him.. the reversing prop would be an interesting item as well as the unique engines

EDIT: if i read his site correctly the boat you have pictured first is $1,580 USD

Nice find

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logoman · Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:06 am Post subject:

calypso · Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 7:55 am Post subject:

I recently switched from Babel Fish to Google Translate.

Does a reasonable job with Japanese to English.

http://translate.google.com/?hl=en#
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calypso · Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:01 am Post subject:

logoman · Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 8:04 am Post subject:

Caprice · Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 9:21 pm Post subject:

I like the designs, wonder though about the last picture above with the "single cylinder engine" it' s said to be self starting, how is that done?

And the choice of aluminum in the boilers/engine, if you are clumsy and run it dry..or is it some special alloy? Aluminum also builds up a protective layer of corrosive material, when in contact with water, but does it work over time?

The price of it ~330 EUR plus 10 EUR for shipping (in Japan I guess)is not so expensive IMO, considering that fittings and pipes are included but shipping to Europe (or else were) may be?

logoman · Posted: Wed Oct 21, 2009 11:16 pm Post subject:

mogogear · Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 12:09 am Post subject:

The use of aluminum in boilers may be a different to what all of us are used to but I can attest to the use of it in commercially made espresso equipment made for home use. Which is used more often that most hobby boilers would be.

Makes such as Gaggia have used aluminum for years with calrod heaters actually cast into the aluminum walls with much success. Rancilio, one of Gaggia's competitors in commercial and home units, uses brass in their boilers with conventional bolted in heaters. I have used both and repaired both- water quality impacts both- just differently. I can say that a good friend who has a espresso repair shop see's no problems with either in these lighter duty application. Obviously I would be suspect of aluminum use in high pressure or large format design too.

Just worth noting- espresso boilers only run at about 1.2bar pressure and see far more hours of use than our hobby use on the average.

I would like to read more on the internal design- It is always so refreshing to see how another culture goes about tackling a design problem especially Asian design vs/ Western. Their is a different logic path that in many cases is very fun to explore. Circular Vs linear thought and all that jazz

Once again great stuff Miles- When I was designing alcohol burners for my back packing stove business- the ones I found in Japan were so different from all the ones being designed in Switzerland or the US.

So we all know what meths burners look like when lit

Here is a Trangia -like burner

one like my stoves

The Japanese version-

I wish I could find a shot of this stove when like a paraffin lamp. Here is a shot of one with flame

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Each coil has jet that shoots a flame over the coil - that in turn vaporizes the alcohol and produces a directed "torch" effect

Sorry to hijack your topic Miles

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This week I are His Most Noble Lord Mo, the Apocalyptic of Old Tonbridge Wafers

logoman · Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:43 am Post subject:

very interesting Greg, you know i love vapourizing burners, and it's good to learn about alumnium boilers, we have used aluminium sauce pans for a generation.

Caprice · Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 7:53 am Post subject:

Thanks logoman and mogogear for your posts, very informative.

I was mostly concerned about how sensitive such construction would be to heat(An run dry accident with a hard soldered copper boiler doesn't melt it, if not left too long, and could always be repaired.)?

mogogear, agree what you say about different design culture...!

Haven't seen that kind of vaporizing boiler before, looks interesting. No wick you say? Needs experimenting...

Back to topic:

I would also like to see more of those engines, didn't find them on youtube but my search skill might lack.

mogogear · Posted: Thu Oct 22, 2009 4:27 pm Post subject: