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Putt Putt Boats & Engines-Talk,Build,Tips & How To
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mogogear


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 7:56 pm    Post subject: Putt Putt Boats & Engines-Talk,Build,Tips & How To Reply with quote

Welcome one and all. This thread will be all-encompassing and the invitation is to bring any question you may have or any idea that you may want to share about Pop Pop / Putt Putt Engines and boats. Debate- design- learn and most of all SHARE!!


Please only one request-


POP POP / PUTT PUTT  Engines or Boats only

* Daryl foster ( Daryl Canada) and Jean-Yves Renaud will be heading up the "Brain Trust"....I will be around for color and commentary and comic relief !!

Please also Note that there is a Blog up with many reference documents etc that will be changing almost daily. many times a question that is asked here can be answered by a response that includes a link to the page in the blog.

The blog is :

http://putputthinktank.blogspot.com/

Also here is a Pop Pop thread from 2010 that had some very good information - please check it out too!!

http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/about29385.html

Thanks for your interest and participation!!-- have fun
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Last edited by mogogear on Fri May 13, 2011 5:21 am; edited 2 times in total
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MooseMan


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PostPosted: Mon May 09, 2011 10:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brilliant!

I was intrigued by the quietness and simple elegance of the "loop" engine....my question: is there such a thing as an optimum number and diameter of loops? Also, does the orientation (horizontal or vertical) mater? I had fairly good results with a horizontally oriented 4 loop engine where the loops had a diameter (od) of about an inch, heated by a broad flame (tealight cup of sterno), but I'm still curious......
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Jean-Yves


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 6:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MooseMan wrote:
Brilliant!

I was intrigued by the quietness and simple elegance of the "loop" engine....my question: is there such a thing as an optimum number and diameter of loops? Also, does the orientation (horizontal or vertical) mater? I had fairly good results with a horizontally oriented 4 loop engine where the loops had a diameter (od) of about an inch, heated by a broad flame (tealight cup of sterno), but I'm still curious......


I not tested many engines with horizontal loops (vertical axis of the coil) because they seem not so powerful and reliable as coils with horizontal axis. Guus (in the Netherlands) came to the same conclusion before we exchanged our points of views. With horizontal axis coils there seem to be an optimum for approx 4 loops. If you decrease this number the heated volume is too small. If you increase it, the engine performance is not better and it is bigger, which could be a pb to house it in a hull. But more that the number of loops, what is to consider is the shape of the pipes. For good performances they must go upward when leaving the coil and then be bent and go down to the water. The "secret" is mainy in this design. Look at Guus engines (in wood clogs). You should find on www.sciencetoymaker.org or other forums.
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Roly Williams


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jean-Yves wrote:
MooseMan wrote:
Brilliant!

I was intrigued by the quietness and simple elegance of the "loop" engine....my question: is there such a thing as an optimum number and diameter of loops? Also, does the orientation (horizontal or vertical) mater? I had fairly good results with a horizontally oriented 4 loop engine where the loops had a diameter (od) of about an inch, heated by a broad flame (tealight cup of sterno), but I'm still curious......


I not tested many engines with horizontal loops (vertical axis of the coil) because they seem not so powerful and reliable as coils with horizontal axis. Guus (in the Netherlands) came to the same conclusion before we exchanged our points of views. With horizontal axis coils there seem to be an optimum for approx 4 loops. If you decrease this number the heated volume is too small. If you increase it, the engine performance is not better and it is bigger, which could be a pb to house it in a hull. But more that the number of loops, what is to consider is the shape of the pipes. For good performances they must go upward when leaving the coil and then be bent and go down to the water. The "secret" is mainy in this design. Look at Guus engines (in wood clogs). You should find on www.sciencetoymaker.org or other forums.


More by luck than judgement, my first pop-pop followed this design almost exactly, apart from the pipes going up then down. I'll try that next time. Is there an optimum length for the pipes, between coil and water?
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Swift Fox


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 7:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keeping on the subject of the coil type boiler, has anyone ever made one with crosstubes like in a marine boiler and heated it through the coil, it is probably a daft idea but i'm just curious?

Looks like i too hit lucky with four coils in my first boat.
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Daryl Canada


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

quote="MooseMan:632234"]Brilliant!
More by luck than judgement, my first pop-pop followed this design almost exactly, apart from the pipes going up then down. I'll try that next time. Is there an optimum length for the pipes, between coil and water?[/quote]

It seems so. Jean-Yves tested a group of engines who's performance was deemed good and came up with 62xpipe ID for the unheated part of the tube. There is some flexibility. Engines will run with more and less. The rule works for me.
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Daryl Canada


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swift Fox wrote:
Keeping on the subject of the coil type boiler, has anyone ever made one with crosstubes like in a marine boiler and heated it through the coil, it is probably a daft idea but i'm just curious?

Looks like i too hit lucky with four coils in my first boat.


Probably. I've tried things close to that but not the same. Maybe Jean-Yves will reply on this too.
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MooseMan


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys! My four-coil slanting down engine worked fine, but I now fancy a bit more experimenting. Might get myself a nice big roll of copper brake pipe to play with!
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Roly Williams


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daryl Canada wrote:
...
It seems so. Jean-Yves tested a group of engines who's performance was deemed good and came up with 62xpipe ID for the unheated part of the tube. There is some flexibility. Engines will run with more and less. The rule works for me.


Thanks Daryl. Is that per leg or total?
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mogogear


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PostPosted: Tue May 10, 2011 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roly Williams wrote:
Jean-Yves wrote:
MooseMan wrote:
Brilliant!

I was intrigued by the quietness and simple elegance of the "loop" engine....my question: is there such a thing as an optimum number and diameter of loops? Also, does the orientation (horizontal or vertical) mater? I had fairly good results with a horizontally oriented 4 loop engine where the loops had a diameter (od) of about an inch, heated by a broad flame (tealight cup of sterno), but I'm still curious......


I not tested many engines with horizontal loops (vertical axis of the coil) because they seem not so powerful and reliable as coils with horizontal axis. Guus (in the Netherlands) came to the same conclusion before we exchanged our points of views. With horizontal axis coils there seem to be an optimum for approx 4 loops. If you decrease this number the heated volume is too small. If you increase it, the engine performance is not better and it is bigger, which could be a pb to house it in a hull. But more that the number of loops, what is to consider is the shape of the pipes. For good performances they must go upward when leaving the coil and then be bent and go down to the water. The "secret" is mainy in this design. Look at Guus engines (in wood clogs). You should find on www.sciencetoymaker.org or other forums.


More by luck than judgement, my first pop-pop followed this design almost exactly, apart from the pipes going up then down. I'll try that next time. Is there an optimum length for the pipes, between coil and water?


Jean -Yves or Daryl, you mentioned this length or ratio the other day to me - there seemed to be a magic relationship between the diameter of the pipe and the length after the coil????

Good question Roly!
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Daryl Canada


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm guessing that leg means each pipe....if so the answer is yes. ie: for 1/4 pipe ID unheated pipe length=15 1/5" each pipe.

Maybe a good time to remind members that last year about this time we started the PP/PPTTT thread. Some might be interested in checking back and having a read. it is at......Link below.

http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/about29385.html

Roly Williams wrote:
Daryl Canada wrote:
...
It seems so. Jean-Yves tested a group of engines who's performance was deemed good and came up with 62xpipe ID for the unheated part of the tube. There is some flexibility. Engines will run with more and less. The rule works for me.


Thanks Daryl. Is that per leg or total?

_________________
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Jean-Yves


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 5:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I followed the link and read the posts.
1°) Last one dated June 3. Does it mean that after 3 weeks there was no more intertest?
2°) There were interesting questions and answers. (Incomplete answers for some of them. I would have like to comment at that time.)
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Daryl Canada


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 8:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jean-Yves wrote:
I followed the link and read the posts.
1°) Last one dated June 3. Does it mean that after 3 weeks there was no more intertest?
2°) There were interesting questions and answers. (Incomplete answers for some of them. I would have like to comment at that time.)


Unfortunately I guess it does mean no more interest. Hope it doesn't happen to this thread. Hopefully this time it can become a sticky and keep the subject of pop pops up front.

You can post replies to the old thread but it is unlikely that any one is watching it besides me.

I have talked to Mo about incorporating the info in the old thread into this thread but that may be difficult.
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Answers requiring thought...$2.00.  
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Roly Williams


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Daryl Canada wrote:
Jean-Yves wrote:
I followed the link and read the posts.
1°) Last one dated June 3. Does it mean that after 3 weeks there was no more intertest?
2°) There were interesting questions and answers. (Incomplete answers for some of them. I would have like to comment at that time.)


Unfortunately I guess it does mean no more interest. Hope it doesn't happen to this thread. Hopefully this time it can become a sticky and keep the subject of pop pops up front.

You can post replies to the old thread but it is unlikely that any one is watching it besides me.

I have talked to Mo about incorporating the info in the old thread into this thread but that may be difficult.

I'm watching it.

I think interest in pop pop boats peaks once a year at around the WWPPBB  
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Swift Fox


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PostPosted: Wed May 11, 2011 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shame we can't stick the other thread up here too as there was a lot of good info in it.  

Anyway i have another question about the coil type boilers and that is if you can use other materials besides copper such as stainless steel and if it makes much difference?
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