A vertical boiler.... new boiler arrives page 4!

mogogear · A vertical boiler.... new boiler arrives page 4!

Not 100% sure I need this ... but "need" is such a subjective term.

I am just testing the water

.. and seeing if anyone out there has a vertical boiler that is not critical to their list of projects...

If you have one - Lets PM about it..I don't really need an engine, but am willing to discuss if you have a set..

Thanks

Rob

hey greg, here are a few on ebay:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Live-Steam-...PageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VERTICAL-BO...PageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

mogogear

Thanks Rob...Yep -I had those in my watch list- though the second seems the most likely candidate_ I watch The US, UK and Canada pretty regularly.

I just thought I would see if anybody here had one that didn't pan out for them.... The old " members -safer" mantra rings in my head.

I have been pretty lucky with my Ebay and Craigslist purchases... you never know when the luck runs out...

Thanks for the reply - I hope that traction project of yours is going well!!

MooseMan

Mo, if you like putting your own finishing touches on a boiler (like cladding), you could think about getting one from Maccsteam, http://www.maccsteam.com/

I've got one in the big boat, and it's a work of art....surprisingly affordable for what you get. Not cheap. but not megabucks either, and serious quality.

mogogear

Ok- I must be too cheap--

that basic price sacred me still.... but they are nice

Rob

here's another boiler, the basic boiler is £85 and 6 fittings £95!!
it may be a bit much

https://www.modelmakingsupplies.co.uk/glr/start.html

MooseMan

Rob

yeh i forgot about it being a kit.

mogogear

Ahh, I do not need to decide right now... I have projects aplenty thats for sure...And diameter and other measurements will tell me what I need to do - or at least whittle down the options ..

Thanks Rob and Moose...

I agree that my soldering skills would have to leap froward at warp speed to do a multi tube boiler

mogogear

So other than this would need a round ceramic burner and many other things .. is Burnac Crap or a item worth consideration --???I could dress her up if the basic boiler is a sound design..

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI....sPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=003

MooseMan

Mo, Burnac are nice.....that boiler would only drive a small engine though. Also, some of them have steel boiler backplates - worth asking the seller. If it's copper or brass, fine - if it's steel, make like a hockeyplayer and get the puck outta there....

mogogear

Thanks Moose,, so the engine I am thinking of is this one...but I also have an extra SEL

It may not be powerful enough and I need to opt for a twin... but .....?

MooseMan

Ah, I see.

Is this for the new boat? In that case, both the SEL and the one in the picture will have enough power to drive it. The one in the picture is double acting, right? In that case it will be good to have someting that can chuck out a bit of steam. The problem with a vertical "pot" boiler is that , compared to a horizontal, they have a small heating surface, even with a centre flue.

That's why the boiler in my big boat has six tubes running through it, to effectively maximize the heating area....the trick is not only to be able to raise pressure, but then also sustain it, in other words, generate steam quickly enough.

I'm a newcomer to these rather more serious boilers, so somebody will correct me if I'm getting it wrong. One thing to bear in mind though that these things operate at higher pressure - soft soldering is not an option, and a boiler failure would have more unpleasant consequences than a basic pot boiler would.

All this explains the elevated price these things come at....they're not a bit of brass tube with a couple of caps, there's rather more to it than that.....

steamyjim

Aye the one in the picture is double acting Moose-i have the twin version

Certainly with the larger engines the problem is actually maintaining steam for a period of time. And as Moose says this brings the cost up...

Far more work making a 'tubeplate' as opposed to a plain end cap etc etc

Les

If you use that engine with a meths fired boiler it will use the steam quicker than the boiler will produce it.

mogogear

Well I was thinking if I find a boiler like the, Burnac or other center flue vertical boiler , and made it gas powered , pressurized fuel... would that do it...?

I am not desperate for anything yet... but always shopping it seems..So I am fine tuning my watch list and adjusting my "eye" for what to be on the look out for..

Les

If you are going gas fired then you really need a boiler which has been silver soldered, otherwise you run the risk of de-soldering the boiler.

mogogear

Well thanks Les, as with all things steam , more Research... So I guess most single flue vertical boilers were not silver soldered.. and I will opt for "the more " sophisticated versions...

John Richards · Vertical Boiler

I`m afraid I really must agree with Les as to the amount of Steam
produced and expended,
What size Vertical do you think you`ll need?, What Dia`, What
hieght of Boiler not including Smoke Stack, Hedgehog or Watertube,
with or without Blowdown, with or without Feed Pump?, Just a few
of the things you should decide before you start Construction, even
If you were to "Commission a Boiler" there is nothing worse then
being half or worse Three Quarter thru` construction and have the
"Jolly Client" ring you up and add half of the "Units" above because
he thought they might look "cool". I have made Hedgehogs before
as yet I haven`t built a Water Tube.

Regards,
John.

mogogear

Thanks John,

I wasn't going to have one made- I am not that "top end"!! All your points are so valid. There are many factors to evaluate. That is why I can choose and buys houses to live in but having one built makes my head spin. I know what I like when I see it.

I took a chance on this one. Rob had listed it earlier and I had seen it also. My metric estimation was off and had discounted it because it looked too big for the boat I am intending it for..It should work size wise- production wise... ahh here comes my lesson .. in the mail..

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Live-Steam-...PageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

We will see if it can run the single Stuart that I have - with a million heat tubes it should - it may have too much surface area!!

My budget was too small to go with the nicer options suggest bt Moose and Les and yourself!!

Wish me luck!

mogogear

Well...still looking. The seller replied to me that shipping for the boiler ( 3" X 6" was $48 Pounds.. then asked if I declined..

Interesting that I got a wood boxed Snipe shipped to me for $35 pounds...???

Hopefully we can politely dissolve the transaction without negatives..

mogogear

Crazy Mo- jumped on another boiler ... could be a little dodgey ...

I hope not, the pictures were just a little less definitive than I would have hoped for..But iyt called for monetary action!!

Ah such is the dice roll of steam life...

But a vertical boiler( with a Mamod looking lever whistle), a single cylinder oscillator ( with a claimed power piston) and an included jetted ceramic gas burner with igniter!!

$12 pounds shipping to the US - That is a vast improvement over the $48 pounds the last seller

I hope I am as happy when I open the box ..Fingers crossed

Les

Have you any pics or a link?

mogogear

Yep- here it is... some tatty piping with the steam feed looking to duck down under the firebox perhaps for a drying effect..who knows..

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=290223443577

The seller had a gas tank also and he offered to make me a deal- but someone bid on it before I could lock it up.... he was asking $30 pounds...

Darn ,missed

mogogear

Double Dratttt!!!!

I got my new steam launch today..... it is no steam launch.. it a shelf toy replica of one... With a piece of brass sheet metal spinning around on a nail - posing as a propeller

I have responded to the seller - to see if she will take it back to re-sell if I eat the shipping both ways...

This is the "NO Boat"

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=140221937642

The pit falls of not getting the specific questions asked and answered clearly. When I asked about a propeller and access hatches, she only said "yes there is a propeller" I did not ask if it was functioning.. and I did not press her on the hatch question..

Not thorough enough on my part-- Take heed lad's., slow down a bit so you don't fall in this hole...

So be forewarned that if this boat shows up fro resale by me or the seller -it is a furniture store decoration

johnreid

Dang that is bad news. I have fallen to the almost too good to be true things on occasion, like my Mamod Roller that needed only some "minor repairs" took a month, but I got my money back.
Since the description says Steam Powered, I bet you can qualify for a Not as Described dispute if she doesnt cooperate, lets hope she does.

Nick

For that price, you might be better off selling it yourself.

mogogear

Thank goodness - It was not a crazy price--- So even if I sell it - I hopefully can not be out more than $30 bucks or so..shipping was only $7 ...

I hate it when I screw up@ I hold myself partially responsible... you gotta ask- the few percentage of times when it matters eventually catches up with you

Nick

I wonder if you could take better pictures and make more money.

John has some good selling tips.

Maybe take a picture of it floating in water, then they'd really get some good ideas and bid high.

mogogear

Nick

No, I don't mean sell it is a running boat, just as display floating in the water, to make it look nice.

Offer it as a project boat.

Les

Les

johnreid

If it is to become a shelf item, didnt you have a display only Steam plant? Might make it a better display.
No use trying to sell it as something it isnt, agreed. You would end up being the payer of refunds.
Les has an idea, if it is watertight, you might be able to convert it into something, making a silk purse from the proverbial sows ear.

mogogear

Les

I would get back to the seller or file a complaint with E-bay.

tmuir

I would be asking for a full refund as the title
'VINTAGE WOODEN MODEL STEAM POWERED DAY CRUISER BOAT'

to me says its a working hull not a pretend hull and I'm sure paypal would agree.

mogogear

I have sent the seller my request, The wording is misleading... but a huge struggle can be avoided hopefully. I can be flexible - and we will see if she is......

More as it happens

johnreid

I do believe that PayPal will be your friend if she doesnt want to cooperate.

mogogear

Fingers crossed for speaking softly and carrying a big Paypal stick

Wallace

Sorry to hear it Mo.

Even use the excuse that it isn't steam powered and you thought it was.

Obviously there is no boiler but could say you thought it was a putt putt boat like this

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISA...sPageName=STRK:MEWA:IT&ih=016

mogogear

True Wallace- and congratulations on your new Aussie Vertical!!

I have sent here 2 messages in 24 hours - nothing yet... we will see.

If no word by morning- I will send the "this is going to paypal dispute, which will lock up your paypal account" while we resolve it note!!

That will get her attention..

Wallace

Thanks Mo

I think it would easily be resolved by Paypal. The steam powered bit has to simply make it a "item not as described".

At the very least it should be/have been, set up to take steam.

Best of luck with it and keep us informed

johnreid

THe PayPal account goes untouched till the dispute goes to a claim. Go directly yo PayPal and file a dispute, do not pass go, you need time to pass before it goes to a claim and you need not waste time waiting for a reply. If your dispute goes ignored, then the claim will go faster. Go forth and file the dispute NOW

mogogear

Ok Mr Reid- Paypal dispute filed....we will see what happens.

mogogear

Well the seller is choosing to escalate to a dispute and now Paypal is starting an investigation... could take up to 30 days....... ow well

Wish me luck

Nick

Have you talked with the seller through emails?

Once you escalate the claim, the seller usually caves in and gives you a refund.

I hope it works out.

mogogear

I have tried three times - emailed the seller that I only wanted to return the boat- First time I would pay for return shipping and eat original shipping if they would refund my money upon receipt.

No response-

I sent it again - no response- this was 3 days after I got the boat-

Then I filed a claim at Paypal - stating I now wanted to return boat- I would pay for return shipping- but I wanted my purchase price and my original shipping refunded. No response for 2 days

Then I sent a ebay message to seller again - "Why are you choosing not to respond
" can we work this out?

I then got the response from Paypal- "Seller has decided to elevate this claim to a dispute- we will contact you soon for more information"

Oh well - I thought I was being flexible-yet firm...

Nick

I always try and get their phone number. I hate emailing back and forth. I think you should be able to get their phone number through ebay.

johnreid

99% of the time PayPal rules in favor of the Buyer stick to your guns and hang tough, PayPal will most probably rule in your favor. I think that it shouldnt take all that long once a real person looks at the situation, I hope that when you files the original dispute that you described the situation accurately as that is going to be what they make the decision upon.

mogogear

The boiler burner, engine and prop shaft arrived today!!

Packaged well and in good shape with cross tubes in the center flue- or connecting through the flue.. about 4 or 5 of them- also has a steam supply line that feeds down to the burner area and back up through the flue - as a superheater also a gauge, clacker, SV and a MAMOD whistle!!

It is clad in mahogany and has a layer a layer of asbestos between the wood and the boiler

It has a nice "hammered effect on the top of the boiler as well inside on the base of the boiler-- very hand-made!!

Then there is this Frankenstein engine...The seller said it has a Mamod power piston,.... heard this name - I can't say I really know what it means... but the whole piston , Steam chest area looks stolen off some sort of Mamod - HELP? I mean it has a reversing lever--- and THREE pipes coming off the engine- center is steam feed and then there is an exhaust pipe for For and REV

It has a stolen flywheel and a handmade frame- It stands about 4" tall and 3: wide- It runs great- although the long piston and rod make it look like a running stork if you know what I mean

all lines have nice fittings in place !! Who knows - it may end up on a boat!!

So here is a shot of the base of the boiler looking up at the flue

That "peened" look of hand hammering to get the shape is interesting. I would have thought it just an embellishment if it was just on the top - visible portion- but it seems to have part of the process. The Mamod whistle will be a "Hoot" or ....toot

The prop tube and 3 blade propeller are new and the ceramic burner has the jet and holder and a push button ignition. It is used but in good shape-- I think Iwill need to check and see if it is a #8 jet- that seems to be what I have read is the optimal-- but I am also new at this ..

Well anyway - it was good to have this deal go smoothly...still waiting for Paypal to sort out my "fake" boat purchase" and my Miranda launch from the UK will have to ship to James first since the seller couldn't find anybody that ships to the US

tmuir

Nice looking boiler with cross tubes so should get to boil pretty quickly too.

Whats the 1/8 pipe that is going up the flue?
Is that for superheating?

Looks like someone put some effort into building that boiler and engine and ratted atleast one Mamod for parts.

mogogear

Yep the steam feed goes out of the boiler and then "down under" and up the flue as a super heater.. I will need to make a proper stack cap for it- the copper flange I put in there to check what size it is...I may work out a nicer version of the cap I did for my tug project..

It has very thick gauge copper in the boiler construction and Iam pleased with it over all- I am curiously amused by the engine,, you never know What will end up with that

MooseMan

Wow Greg, that boiler should have power in spades for anything you might like to drive. Might be worth just getting it hydraulically tested though, see what the working pressure is etc. You'll have to make sure that the safety valve blows off before you get to a pressure that your engine would not be able to handle - 30PSI is typical for a max pressure. A Mamod engine will go into orbit at that pressure.

Les

That looks to be a good investment, I would as Moose pointed out, get it tested just to be on the safe side.

James

Looks very nice!!

The engine is off a Mamod SE2a

mogogear

MooseMan

Basically, you pressurize the boiler with water up to twice its normal working pressure, so probably up to 80PSI. If something then fails, worst case scenario, you get a soaking rather than a scalding, or a facefull of metal.

Any model engineering society that deals with steam should be able to do this....you can also do it yourself, but you need a hydraulic ram capable of delivering that sort of pressure and a pressure hose.

tmuir

Most model engineer clubs have an authorised tester and if you speak to them they will probably do it for a modest fee and then should you run it at a show or public event you will be covered by the shows public liability insurance.

Or if you have the gear just do it yourself for your own piece of mind.
Remember to do a hydrolic test not an air pressure test.
On a hydrolic test if you get a leak it lets out some water and the pressure drops quickly as water can't be compressed. Air can be compressed so a small leak can let a rush of air out which can become a tear and pepper you with bits of boiler.

The standard test is twice working pressure and hold it there for 45 mins to an hour.

johnreid

I dont think there is such a thing as a Model Engineer Club over here.

mogogear

Ok- we will see what I can scrounge up

johnreid

Any news from the PayPal refund front?

redryder

steamyjim

Aye, I said it was a Stuart Turner when Mo first got it. I have the V-Twin Version.

What boiler did yours come with Gil? The double drum one?

redryder

mogogear

johnreid

Good News, so glad it worked out.

mogogear

Thanks for advocating me to jump on the paypal angle- I bow to you sir!!

mogogear

johnreid

I need to get a life

Les

tmuir

Glad you got it sorted out quickly.
Nothing worse than feeling ripped off by a seller.

IndianaRog

PayPal has saved my bacon twice now...once after filing a claim they decided in my favor...other time I just threatened to file a PayPal claim and the seller relented and sent me my money.

It's a good tool to have in your hip pocket for the inevitable day when a seller attempts to misrepresent his product or won't honor a simple refund.

johnreid

They came through for me twice, but one of those times got me a Neutral Feedback.

A vertical boiler.... new boiler arrives page 4!

Vertical Boiler