| Archive for The Unofficial Mamod and Other Steam Forum The Original Unofficial Toy Steam Forum Established 2006 The biggest, most popular global steam forum around! Accept NO imitations! We have a growing community of regular posting members who chat about all aspects of toy and model steam. |
| 27ace27 |
Ace Steam Works #1watch this space!
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| newsteamer123 |
-slow groing grin-
show now!! |
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| 27ace27 |
I'll keep you in the dark until this weekend when I get the boiler soldered! (bracing for warnings about how not to solder  )
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| johnreid |
We are waiting
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| newsteamer123 |
get the lowest flame you can(but still nice and hot) and if you can, wrap a wet (cold or hot i doesnt matter as long as it wet) arouend other soldered areas and be careful | ||||
| 27ace27 |
 Bring on that boiler!
BTW I'll need to invest in a new fire extunguisher, I used up the last one!
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| igy569 |
*heavy sigh* 
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| metalhead100 |
Some Fire Dept. will fill and service your better extinguishers. Not the plastic junkers from Wal-Mart though. If its metal and decent quality/brand. Ours does it real cheap....they charge you for the powder and o rings ect. Jim |
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| Nick |
Why? 
Soldering is nothing difficult, and you may be scaring other members away from giving it a try. I doubt all these accidents are really happening.
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| SlideValve |
Yup, soldering is not that difficult at all, my dad taught me how to do electrical soldering, then "plumbers soldering" a little bit, and I worked from there , here's some tips,
Clean the parts you are about to solder Heat the metal not the solder (or else the solder won't flow) And don't be afraid to use a lot of flux
Connor |
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| mogogear |
and if silver soldering use the absolute smallest diameter you can--I mean small mechanical pencil lead--really Radio Shack folks | ||||
| madeinenglang |
There is nothing particularly difficult about silver soldering; it is just a matter of getting the methodology right. Like most things in life, if you don't try it you never will succeed. And when you succeed, practice a bit more and you will be amazed at your results. So, here we go. Let's say at first that a botched silver soldering job is a real eye-sore so it's as well to get some practice on scrap bits or non-critical jobs. The main fault that is seen (apart from using insufficient heat) is an excess of solder used on the joint resulting in it flowing all over the work. The secret of silver soldering is practice and more practice |
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| steamyjim |
http://www.modelenthusiasts.com/SILVER-SOLDERING-p-422.html
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| 27ace27 |
my soldering attempt was an epic fail just now, I'll brush up on that. thanks jim! 
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| 27ace27 |
AHA! *leaps up to go try again* | ||||
| steamyjim |
Good luck and no problem
Have you ever silver soldered before? If not would it be a good idea to try on something small like a pipe to a fitting rather than going straight to boiler manufacture? Just a suggestion
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| 27ace27 |
HOOOOORAH!!! epic win!!!  now waiting for boiler to cool down from re-entry temperatures to check the joint. It flowed freely with more heat! patience really IS a virtue! I just had to use some!
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| 27ace27 |
http://thesteamchest.yolasite.com/resources/IMG_3802.JPG
Thank you so much jim, and everyone else that gave me tips earlier! I re-read them, and found out what I was doing wrong! I needed to keep heating the joint, then take the flame away, then apply the solder! BTW, how does the joint look?
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| steamyjim |
That joint looks very neat! Is that your first go? If so, wow!
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| 27ace27 |
It is my first go, but it's the good side of the joint, the other side isn't nearly as neat. My camera batteries died before I got a pic of the other side. Thanks anyway though!
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| steamyjim |
I presume just a bit of filing with a needle file will have the other side looking just fine
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| AzRob |
Hey Ace, after all your earlier posts, I was ready to see a picture of you in the hospital. I'm glad you took our advice, because hot diggity, that joint looks dang good to me!
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| johnreid |
Keep up the good work | ||||
| 27ace27 |
haha! Thanks rob! now, did I use the right solder? I think I did, but I thought I'd better ask you guys, It says "silver bearing lead free solder."
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| SlideValve |
Wow, that's a great lookin' solder joint Cant wait to see the whole thing
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| 27ace27 |
alright! tomorrow; solder in compression union, and threads for SV and whistle, then solder top endcap on. hopefully, I'll also get another section of pipe as I soldered a compression collar thing on both sides (badly) with no compression nut in between. 
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| metalhead100 |
Nice Job!
Where did you get the end caps?.... Jim |
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| 27ace27 |
where you did jim! at the hardware store! I just used their pipe-cutters to cut off the rest. It was a challenge though, because their cutters were so dull, It left a lip on the inside of the endcap that I had to sand down.
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| SlideValve |
How big is the diameter of the pipe? Also, are you planning to build an engine for this boiler, or do you have a spare engine?
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| 27ace27 |
the boiler is 2" copper pipe, and I will build an engine using a spare mamod cylinder from superbiker_uk (thanks again BTW!) I already went to the hardware store and got a piston and con-rod sorted. (believe it or not, they had a piece that fit perfectly as a piston, I'll try to get a pic, but I can't remember what it was originally intended for... ) Now, should it be mounted on a wood or metal base? I'm leaning toward wood...
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| SlideValve |
Wood is always a good base, plus it is a lot easier to work with , just in the fire box put a metal plate/spacer to separate the bottom of the burner from the wood if necessary
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| 27ace27 |
that's what I was thinking as well. BTW, as soon as I am capable of machining my own cylinders, this engine will go into production! I also already have engine No's 2, 3, and 4 lined up, but until I can either machine my own parts, or I can get another mamod cylinder, nothing will happen with #2. and either way, you won't be able to see it until STWWW 2010. 
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| metalhead100 |
Hahha
Ace i got mine from a plumber at work for free.... And left the huge lip on them....there is NO way this thing will come apart...Massive solder joint! HAhahah 1400 watts of steam real fast! (note to self....buy smaller heater next time) 
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| SlideValve |
Does that boiler have an immersion or blanket style heater?
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| metalhead100 |
Immersion....Its Killer....
I had to hook up a dimmer... Jim |
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| SlideValve |
Whoa, how many Watts
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| 27ace27 |
now that's a boiler! I had to pay $4.99 for my endcaps though. 
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| 27ace27 |
I tried soldering the fittings on just now, the SV thread went fine, then when I tried soldering the compression fitting on, the endcap slipped off of the rocks that were keeping it off of the ground so the compression fitting would go on level and it fell off along with the SV thread bolt. how do I keep the SV thread bolt from desoldering while it is so close to the other fittings I'm working on?
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| AzRob |
There was talk about a cool gel on here earlier that'll protect already soldered areas. Also perhaps investing in a vice would make slipping off rocks a problem of the past... | ||||
| Les |
Put a damp towel over the fittings you have soldered if there is enough room to do so. | ||||
| 27ace27 |
that's the problem though, I don't have enough room.
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| 27ace27 |
OK, just got the fitting soldered! now how do I solder that endcap to the boiler without the fittings desoldering?
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| Ross |
What about this! if you can wait for post  Best get the others to check if it would work but I don't see why not!
http://www.northernsafety.com/Pro...chResult=true&skw=GP307HEBA08 Ross |
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| newsteamer123 |
picture of top including both sides? |
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| scorpion2nz |
I silver solder the fittings then just soft solder the endcaps |
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| 27ace27 |
shouldn't you use silver solder for all of the boiler? and I don't have any soft solder.
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| johnreid |
I dont believe you are Silver Soldering it anyhow Ace, you are just using the lead free solder that has some silver content. Silver Soldering is a whole lot more complicated. I dont mean to belittle things, just making an observation.
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| redryder |
Have you worked out the specs on your steam engine or will you make a copy off an existing engine?
Gil |
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| redryder |
Good point John. Nearly 40 years ago I attended refrigeration school and I already knew how to solder. I became very good with silver solder and when done right it works quickly and becomes practically an art form. I must confess, it is, at least for now, a lost art with me. One day I will get good at it again. Gil |
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| 27ace27 |
I just have an existing Idea, and am winging it on everything else. and to john, will that solder work anyway?
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| SlideValve |
I built my engine with no plans whatsoever, it's an original design, however there were many errors in making the engines
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| johnreid |
Your solder should work fine, but it is "soft" solder, the type with lead content flows a little easier. I just didnt want you to think you had a silver soldered boiler when in fact you dont. | ||||
| SlideValve |
Soft solder works ok, unless you let the boiler run dry, or huge flame that goes above the water level in the boiler, this is what can happen...
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| johnreid |
Most Mamods are soft soldered, I believe Wilescos are too as the metal is too thin to take the heat. | ||||
| SlideValve |
Really? that is interesting, makes me feel more confident in building my own boiler
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| gd9704 |
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| 27ace27 |
oh dear that would scare the crap out of me! and I have pictures, just give me a sec...
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| johnreid |
THis is why Mamod makes a point of stating that certain models are Silver Soldered, Jensens are Silver Soldered though.
Just like my Mamod Locomotives, the SL3 is soft soldered but the New Mamod Train is Silver Soldered, look on the web page and see that they make a point of telling that it is so. We are talking about 20 psi or less boilers. Bowmans, SELs, I believe all of the old engines were soft soldered. |
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| SlideValve |
And weren't Jensens soft soldered when they had rivets? | ||||
| johnreid |
I believe so | ||||
| 27ace27 |
are wilesco's soft soldered? I hope so, because I'm using a wilesco SV. and here is the new website with the build log; http://acesteamworks.yolasite.com/ | ||||
| SlideValve |
Looks good , how are you going to make a firebox for a vertical boiler? soup can?
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| 27ace27 |
I'll fold some sheet metal into a square, then put a bolt on each of the four sides, then those will tighten, keeping the boiler in place!
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| SlideValve |
That's a good idea, and it will be easy to remove for maintenance. And since it' a vertical boiler, soft solder should work fine, because on a vertical boiler the flame is only touching 1 end cap, and that's the one with water surrounding all of it, rather than a horizontal were the flame touches both end caps, and the water level is only half full on each cap. I can't wait for the engine section!
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| 27ace27 |
the engine will be vertical as well, and I will either use my extra mamod SE1 cylinder and piston/ con-rod I made OR if I can get mitch's MM2 piston and cylinder he has for sale ATM, I'll use that. |
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| Wallace |
That's a really neat job ace. | ||||
| redryder |
All Jensen boilers are silver soldered. Prewar (WW2) they were soft soldered with pins (we call this riveted). If the solder gave way the pins would prevent catastrophic failure. Gil |
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| redryder |
Great start Ace.... I just had a look at your boiler on your website.
It is shaping up very nicely and should be real solid once finished. For water level will it have bleeder valves or site glass? Gil |
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| johnreid |
I believe I pointed that out. |
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| Ross |
I really like it So far!
good soldering job! 
Ross |
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| 27ace27 |
thanks guys! I can't do much today though, have to clean my room! and to redryder, what is a bleed valve?
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| redryder |
A set of drain cocks, usually 3, on the side of the boiler, would allow the engineer to open them one at a time to determine the approximate water level. Many full sized boilers had 3 drain cocks as well as a vertical tube site glass. They are often a back up to the glass tube. They can be more reliable as glass tubes sometimes don't show the true internal fluid level. Gil |
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| 27ace27 |
I see...
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| mogogear |
A very good job Ace...experience is teaching you well.. all of our advice only comes to light when your hands and head go to work...
Keep going! You will remember the rest of your life!! |
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| 27ace27 |
Soldered, polished, and lookin' good! 
http://acesteamworks.yolasite.com/number-1.php |
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| MooseMan |
Good stuff Ace! That looks like the sort of boiler I'd trust, all the more for it being copper.
Might look even nicer if you jacket it! |
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| SlideValve |
Looks great how do you solder the cap on without de-soldering the fittings?
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| 27ace27 |
thanks again guys! I plan on going back to ace hardware to get the materials for the rest of the engine! And to slidevalve; I just put the endcap with fittings upside down , and since the fitting are on the inside of the endcap, they won't fall through! also helps safety, so if you run it dry, the fittings won't become projectiles.
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| tmuir |
Coming along nicely.
One thing when you fill the boiler only have a safety valve and a steam line you may find you get an air lock when filling the boiler and will need to unscrew the steam line so the boiler will fill. An overflow bush on the side of the boiler will fix that problem. |
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| 27ace27 |
alrighty then, the bill of materials so far;
end caps-------------------------------$10 boiler piping---------------------------$1 SV fitting-------------------------------$0.20 compression fitting------------------$3 steam line-----------------------------$0.70 boiler total----------------------------$15 these are rough, rounded up estimates not including the tools such as the blowtorch as these are an initial investment. |
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| Les |
How are you going to heat the boiler?? | ||||
| steamyjim |
Any progress on this? | ||||
| 27ace27 |
nope, not this weekend. It's been very busy lately, but I'm off school Wednesday for thanksgiving break, so I might get something done then.
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| 27ace27 |
18 days till deadline
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| AzRob |
Snow day coming soon you can use to work on it? |