| Archive for The Unofficial Mamod and Other Steam Forum The Original Unofficial Toy Steam Forum Established 2006 The biggest, most popular steam forum around! Accept NO imitations! We have a growing community of regular posting members who chat about all aspects of toy and model steam. |
| RocDoc |
Bowman M167 restoration - Gun Gum experiment has Failed p3Hi everyone,Bought this lovely little M167 on Ebay for £25 ... real bargain. Needs a bit of work ... * new exhaust pipe to chimney * firebox under front of boiler 'holed' just where steam pipe emerges from boiler * looks like the filler plug has been broken off ... remaining bit may need to be drilled out, replaced with a new one. * Baseplate probably needs stripping and a new coat of "Bowman" Green. New decal of course * Valve doesn't look correct, may need a new one * Spit and polish ... lots of TLC It'll have to wait as I'm off to Rio de Janeiro on business this weekend. I might try to upload some photos when away. Cheers Pete 
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| Nick |
How thin are the fireboxes? | ||||
| Mamodman123 |
I can sort you out with a decal 
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| Steve_S |
That's great Pete, and a bargain at that price! The outer casing at the bottom of the chimney is missing, but thats easily replaced. How come I don't see eBay bargains like that? 
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| RocDoc |
Hi Steve, It wasn't actually listed as a Bowman, just as "Live steam horizontal engine". I made the guy a BIN offer. I see what you mean about the lower casing. Should be easy to find I guess. Pete |
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| RocDoc |
That's fantastic, thanks. |
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| Steve_S |
Yes, you just need a piece of brass tubing the same diameter as the top part of the chimney. You can see the ring of solder where the original was attached. Its like the ones I've made except that I had to do it in three pieces instead of two: http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/about4004.html |
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| Les |
Nice buy, you cannot go wrong at £25 really. 
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| steamgranny |
So that's where it went  Had seen it, then it was gone & thought I'd imagined things
Glad it's gone to a caring home 
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| erikl |
Nice buy, I'm looking forward to see the restoration of it. | ||||
| RocDoc |
Thought I would update you all on the progress of the 167 restoration. I've cleaned everything and polished all the brass work. The engine components have had a good long soak in WD40.
As I couldn't see anything obviously wrong with the boiler or engine, I decided to test the engine by steaming it up. She fired up first time and goes like the clappers (see video below). Next jobs include repainting the base plate (in green) and possibly the boiler strap (in black) although I think red is quite fetching. Another big job is to patch the firebox ... and to repair the exhaust pipe-chimney 'plumbing' arrangement. So far so good ... Cheers Pete http://s164.photobucket.com/album...ion=view¤t=MOV02671.flv |
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| MTA |
Nice to hear that she runs well and you are progressing with the restoration Pete 
One thing though, is the safety valve thread at an angle? In the first pic the safety valve appears to be leaning
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| MooseMan |
For it to run out for so long the piston and cylinder must be in A1 shape! | ||||
| RocDoc |
Hi, Yea, it does look like it's leaning on the photo but I think it's ok. When I screw the SV in it sits nice and level ... at least to my untrained eye that it. Pete |
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| Steve_S |
It runs very well.... typical Bowman.
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| Les |
That looks and sounds great.
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| Nick |
Looks great! 
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| RocDoc |
Hey, Pete ... how's it going with that M167 ....
Glad you asked. Here are some photos of the firebox which I'm in the process of patching. The first photo shows the extent of the hole in the front end (white is some card). The second photo shows the aluminium mesh along the back which is used as reinforcement. The third photo shows the Gun Gum filling the hole. The last photo shows the inside of the firebox. Note the mesh has been totally covered by the Gun Gum. I'm not too bothered about the the final finish of the inside as it will be hidden from view. Gun Gum is a paste type stuff for repairing exhaust pipes and silencers. Add a bit of water and it goes on like a thick paste ... add more water and it becomes thinner. Can get quite a good finish if you use a bit of water but beware .. don't use wet&dry to sand it smooth ... the wet causes the surfaces layers to 'run' again. Nothing too major but running nether the less. I'm beginning to wonder how it will cope under steam conditions. Dry sanding works upto a point. However, I don't think this type of material was ever designed for producing very smooth finishes. I'm sure I can work around this problem. So far ... so good Pete 
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| RocDoc |
At last, the cat has a flap ... actually, the 167 firebox now has a burner flap (see photos). I followed Steve's method for fixing the flap, namely using very short nails which were then flattened out (peened) to form rivets. Although you can see the rivet heads in the photos, they should almost disappear when the firebox is painted black.
The brown stuff at the other end of the firebox is Gun Gum which was used to patch the hole. So far .. so good Pete 
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| Les |
Well done, and it should look good when painted.
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| Sandman |
Yep, the repair will never be noticed when painted.
Good work.
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| Steve_S |
That's great Pete. It'll look fine when it's painted.... I'm glad it worked! | ||||
| RocDoc |
Thanks Steve ... I'm chuffed that it turned out so well. Pete
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| johnreid |
Very good job, I too believe that the repair will be invisible once painted. | ||||
| RocDoc |
Just like the weather ... not a good day today. Today was painting firebox day but it turned into a "strip-the-paint-using-Nitromors" day. It was just one of those things ... too much spray, several major runs. I knew the finish would not past muster with the forum so off it had to come.
The new paint came off a treat but the Nitromors didn't touch the Gun Gum nor the original paint which is interesting. Also, the Nitromors removed the car body filler that I had used to make a smooth surface over the repair on the front of the firebox. I guess this type of filler isn't the right stuff to use on a firebox (I'm now thinking that I will layer in several coats of paint to make a smooth finish to the repair). Ah well ... we live and learn. Practice makes perfect I suppose. Pete PS: Watch this space ... something wicked this way comes ... |
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| johnreid |
That could be much worse, chalk it up to experience and enjoy the project. Lessons learned are a valuable part of the experience. | ||||
| Nick |
Hope it works out next time, and please post some pictures of the results.
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| RocDoc |
Thanks. I am enjoying the project even with all the little set backs. That's one of the things I like about this hobby ... I'm learning something new every day. |
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| tmuir |
I learnt the other day 'Don't try and machine annealed copper pipe on the lathe', lets just say that project is now in the scrap bin.
I find when I learn the hard way I tend to remember the lesson better.
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| RocDoc |
Hi Nick, Will do ... and some of the base plate as well as that is next in line for painting. Cheers Pete |
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| mogogear |
Pete - the Gun Gum looks to be great stuff-- the peened rivets worked out spot on too!! Better weather for your painting soon!!
I have s firebox to make soon as well.. Is there a brand or name on your gun gum? |
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| RocDoc |
Hi Mo,
The Gun Gum is made by Holts. You should be able to get something similar it in any auto repair center. It's a thick paste for repairing holes in exhaust systems. I also used some fine aluminium mesh for 'reinforcement' over the hole otherwise the gun gum wouldn't have had anything to stick to. I haven't tested the repair yet. Just hope it holds together under the combined attack of heat, steam and meths. Pete |
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| mogogear |
Thanks Pete- keep me informed on if your aesthetic solution is viable under "fire"!! | ||||
| RocDoc |
After a short wait, I'm 'pleased' to say Mo that the great Gun Gum experiment to patch the firebox has failed with a capital F!
I applied the Gun Gum as instructed, made it nice and smooth. Applied several layers of heat resistant paint (Plasti-Kote BBQ paint) ... all looking really nice. Then I baked the firebox in a slow oven starting at 70C for 45 minutes. As the temperature went up the paint covering the Gun Gum started to blister big time ... the rest of the firebox was perfect, no blisters, nothing. I didn't notice it but I reckon the paint was blistering at 70C. I did a little test. I turned my blow torch on to the repair ... sure enough, the remaining paint blistered and came away. The Gun Gum itself started to deform and blister. Looks like Gun Gum ain't that clever for repairing fireboxes. It doesn't sand smooth and doesn't take paint (at least the paint that I was using). So folks, I'm back to the very beginning again. There's a hole in firebox dear forum, dear forum ... Any suggestions on what to do next? Pete 
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| johnreid |
I would suggest using a piece of sheet metal. Either cover the whole end of the Firebox, or try to patch the hole with it, I would try to make a piece to cover the entire end of the Firebox if it was me trying to do it.. | ||||
| RocDoc |
Hi, Yes, was thinking along the same lines. Would you rivet the sheet onto the firebox or solder? Pete |
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| johnreid |
Although it might not be an invisible patch, personally I would Rivet, if you can Silver Solder that might be better, but I fear that soft solder would melt. | ||||
| Les |
Just sent you a PM. | ||||
| MooseMan |
I think brazing a piece on, or possible a replacement firebox would be the way forward.
Pity about the gun gum though. |
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| RocDoc |
Hi Odilon, Funny you should say that ... a replacement firebox may hopefully be on it's way thanks to Les. Pete |
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| MooseMan |
Hurray! Definitely the best solution in the long run. Three cheers for Les!
BTW, just packed up your 122. |
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| RocDoc |
Thanks mate. That will be something to look forward to when at work.
Pete
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| Mamodman123 |
Exhausts get hot......but obviously not that hot. At least its been tried and tested now
Hope you can get the replacement
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| johnreid |
Isnt this a great place?
Three Cheer for Les. |
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| RocDoc |
Indeed it is ... a great place
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| Steve_S |
It's great that you've got a replacement (well done Les!) but I'd hang on to the original firebox too. It could still be fixed up, and it might come in handy in the future... you never know! | ||||
| RocDoc |
Indeed, one never knows when you (or someone else) might need a firebox. Although I'll keep is safe and sound it will be saying ... repair me ... repair me ... you know you want to ... go on ... go on ... stick it on me ...
Pete |
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| Steve_S |
Yes, it will, it'll nag at you 'til you fix it.
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| RocDoc |
Hi everyone,
At long last, the waiting is over. Here she is ... the M167 cleaned, polished ... and restored to her former glory. It's taken me a long long time to get this far but I can put hand on heart and say that I did it all by myself. My first complete restoration start to finish, except for the firebox, many thanks Les. I did everything ... replaced and soldered the filler plug ... soldered the top and base of the chimney together ... painted the base plate ... lots of spit, lots of polish. I know many of you could have restored this engine in much less time ... but I got there in the end. I enjoyed every trial and tribulation ... as a result, I rather like this little engine. Thanks to Odilon, Les and Steve for help and encouragement. Enjoy ... Pete 
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| Les |
Wow, that looks great . You have done a grand job and you should be proud of it.
Are you sure that is the same fire box I sold you, it looks totally different. 
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| Steve_S |
That looks fantastic! Couldn't be better. There'll be no stopping you now!
(An M167 is near the top of my wanted list but there haven't been many coming up recently.) |
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| johnreid |
Great job! | ||||
| RocDoc |
Thanks guys.
Yeah, I am proud that she turned out so well. It's great having friends to lend a helping hand but I really wanted to try to restore an engine on my own, you know try to do everything. It is your old FB Les ... heavily disguised in a new black coat. Didn't do too much ... bit of wet&dry here and there, some rust protection and several coats of black paint. Next project ... the M122 Pete
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| MooseMan |
Pete, that's truly excellent work....congratulations, that's a fine looking engine! | ||||
| Steve_S |
I'll be interested to see how you get on with the M122. I've been putting mine back together this evening. | ||||
| RocDoc |
Thanks mate. The chimney soldering went really well. A little confession ... I didn't use the sand method to keep the parts in place. I made some spacers out of thin aluminium tubing bent round the inner chimney tube. I'll fire it up soon and take some vids. Pete |
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| mogogear |
A right fine job Pete!! Very nice paint, solder and decal application!! A bit of rubbing is evident in the brass!!
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| rangerssteamtoys |
Very nice, those Bowmans are really great. | ||||
| IndianaRog |
Pete, a superlative job. The tough ones are usually the ones we love the most when done up as you have done that one. Congrats. | ||||
| Sandman |
Well worth the time and effort.
That engine would look tops in any collection.
Another Bowman saved. Great stuff. |
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| Nick |
Just saw this engine in the EOTM for August. (It got my vote )
The engine looks great. 
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