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       The Unofficial Mamod and Other Steam Forum Forum Index -> Restorations
Sandman

Bowman Restoration And Pics.

Sandman is back with his beloved Bowman thread. I Extend an invitation to all to post their Bowman related posts and pics here.

Mike I would appreciate your participation again

These are the engines I will be attempting to clean up over the winter. The twin cylinder being my pride and joy will be started soon. I'll try a test steaming hopefully within the next few days. Can't do it today.














Sandman

O.K. Guys Looking for suggestions.

If you look at the third pic down back view of the engine you'll see that the piece of metal usually bent out from the firebox is missing. This is to hold the burner steady during running. In the interest of keeping the engine as original as possible would it be right to add this piece either soldered or whatever?
Mamodman123

Sandman wrote:
O.K. Guys Looking for suggestions.

If you look at the third pic down back view of the engine you'll see that the piece of metal usually bent out from the firebox is missing. This is to hold the burner steady during running. In the interest of keeping the engine as original as possible would it be right to add this piece either soldered or whatever?


I think it would be very difficult to add a piece of metal anyway SM, soldering wouldn't hold it you'd have to rivet it on which invloves drilling holes etc..

My advice is leave it... or buy a wreak on ebay and salvage
Sandman

Thanks MM. If it runs as smoothly as my last engine, it will not need it anyway. Wish I could try it but as usual the missus has given me other things to do.
Mamodman123

Sandman wrote:
Thanks MM. If it runs as smoothly as my last engine, it will not need it anyway. Wish I could try it but as usual the missus has given me other things to do.


it will keep you busy SM!

I love the twin cylinder not seen one before, apart from yours of course
SPOKESMAN

Sandman wrote:
O.K. Guys Looking for suggestions.

If you look at the third pic down back view of the engine you'll see that the piece of metal usually bent out from the firebox is missing. This is to hold the burner steady during running. In the interest of keeping the engine as original as possible would it be right to add this piece either soldered or whatever?


Yes, its purpose is important, Bowmans have no guides to hold the lamp.
Wallace

Sandman wrote:
O.K. Guys Looking for suggestions.

If you look at the third pic down back view of the engine you'll see that the piece of metal usually bent out from the firebox is missing. This is to hold the burner steady during running. In the interest of keeping the engine as original as possible would it be right to add this piece either soldered or whatever?


Hi mate,
I'd probably add it if it were me, but replicate it as best as possible.
Sandman

I had this in mind. Tell me what you think.


Prepare a suitable piece of metal and cut to size.

Bend to form the required shape.

Clean and tin the part to fit the inside of the firebox.

Drill a couple of holes in the firebox roughly where the inside tab would be and add a slight countersink on the outside.

Clean and tin the inside of the firebox.

Put the new part in position and apply heat till the two parts are fused.

Fill the countersinks on the outside with solder to provide a key.

File and sand off the residue and cover with black paint.

Just a thought if the firebox doesn't get too warm and melts the solder.
Mamodman123

You could do that, I tinn my pipes when I resolder them.

The only thing you have to be careful with is not to burn the majority of your paint off the firebox.

Maybe you could make a removeable one? that clamps on the top of firebox during a run? then you don't have to start drilling things and soldering very old Bowman engines.
Sandman

Mamodman123 wrote:
You could do that, I tinn my pipes when I resolder them.

The only thing you have to be careful with is not to burn the majority of your paint off the firebox.

Maybe you could make a removeable one? that clamps on the top of firebox during a run? then you don't have to start drilling things and soldering very old Bowman engines.


Excellent idea MM. That would mean I could keep the engine original. A lot easier too. Brilliant.
Mamodman123

Sandman wrote:
Mamodman123 wrote:
You could do that, I tinn my pipes when I resolder them.

The only thing you have to be careful with is not to burn the majority of your paint off the firebox.

Maybe you could make a removeable one? that clamps on the top of firebox during a run? then you don't have to start drilling things and soldering very old Bowman engines.


Excellent idea MM. That would mean I could keep the engine original. A lot easier too. Brilliant.



I'm not just a pretty face you know

Definatly the best option I think! keep them original and then it would aid in the running of the engine, perfect
Sandman

That's where the experience comes in. I've got a long way to go.
Mamodman123

Sandman wrote:
That's where the experience comes in. I've got a long way to go.


Well, you learn little tips and tricks on the way. I was actually looking at my TE1's canopy clip a minute ago and then saw the thread on here made me think, "SM could make something that clips on for his Bowman"

Sorted
Sandman

Mamodman123 wrote:
Sandman wrote:
That's where the experience comes in. I've got a long way to go.


Well, you learn little tips and tricks on the way. I was actually looking at my TE1's canopy clip a minute ago and then saw the thread on here made me think, "SM could make something that clips on for his Bowman"

Sorted


My idea was tricky and I,m not sure if it would work.

It's not as if I'll steam it often anyway. I plan on a test steam, do the big clean up, a proper steam filmed then only very occasionally like at the meet.
Mamodman123

Yeah I see what you mean, some engines I don't like to fire, but I can see why you only want to fire it a few times .

Rule number one in my book is keep everything original! just clean up
Sandman

Mamodman123 wrote:
Yeah I see what you mean, some engines I don't like to fire, but I can see why you only want to fire it a few times .

Rule number one in my book is keep everything original! just clean up


With you all the way, MM. A good rule.

Have to go and pick up the missus.

BBL MM.
Mamodman123

She's got you well trained SM talk later!
Sandman

I remember on one of the threads on the last forum talk of using O rings as seals.

Could they be used for example on whistles and overflow plugs or would they not withstand the heat?

I can't remember much about the original thread.
Mamodman123

Sandman wrote:
I remember on one of the threads on the last forum talk of using O rings as seals.

Could they be used for example on whistles and overflow plugs or would they not withstand the heat?

I can't remember much about the original thread.


I think fibre washers are ok on the boiler i'm not sure any would melt unless a flame touched it maybe not sure, ive used elastic bands to good effect
Sandman

Mamodman123 wrote:
Sandman wrote:
I remember on one of the threads on the last forum talk of using O rings as seals.

Could they be used for example on whistles and overflow plugs or would they not withstand the heat?

I can't remember much about the original thread.


I think fibre washers are ok on the boiler i'm not sure any would melt unless a flame touched it maybe not sure, ive used elastic bands to good effect


Do you know anywhere that sells fibre washers MM.? I got a mixed bag of seals from Chavsteam but most were O rings and not a lot of fibre.
Mamodman123

Sandman wrote:
Mamodman123 wrote:
Sandman wrote:
I remember on one of the threads on the last forum talk of using O rings as seals.

Could they be used for example on whistles and overflow plugs or would they not withstand the heat?

I can't remember much about the original thread.


I think fibre washers are ok on the boiler i'm not sure any would melt unless a flame touched it maybe not sure, ive used elastic bands to good effect


Do you know anywhere that sells fibre washers MM.? I got a mixed bag of seals from Chavsteam but most were O rings and not a lot of fibre.


I need the answer to that question aswell SM I had a look in Focus and they were all too big and expensive anyone else know?
Dauntless

MM, I bought some fibre washers from Barry, The sizes are slightly generous but all my engines now have fibre washers bought from him!

If you send an e-mail to Barry he will e-mail you back a Catalogue / Price list for all his spares

barryandkate@btinternet.com
Mamodman123

Dauntless wrote:
MM, I bought some fibre washers from Barry, The sizes are slightly generous but all my engines now have fibre washers bought from him!

If you send an e-mail to Barry he will e-mail you back a Catalogue / Price list for all his spares

barryandkate@btinternet.com



So I ask him for a catalouge or some washers?
Dauntless

Mamodman123 wrote:
Dauntless wrote:
MM, I bought some fibre washers from Barry, The sizes are slightly generous but all my engines now have fibre washers bought from him!

If you send an e-mail to Barry he will e-mail you back a Catalogue / Price list for all his spares

barryandkate@btinternet.com



So I ask him for a catalouge or some washers?


Ask him for his catalogue he will e-mail it to you.
Sandman

If you decide to buy, double the order and I'll send you the cash MM.

I'll cover the postage for mine as well.
Mamodman123

Sandman wrote:
If you decide to buy, double the order and I'll send you the cash MM.

I'll cover the postage for mine as well.


Ok SM will email him in a bit
Wallace

Sandman wrote:
I remember on one of the threads on the last forum talk of using O rings as seals.

Could they be used for example on whistles and overflow plugs or would they not withstand the heat?

I can't remember much about the original thread.


Hi Sandman. I use o-rings on my whistles, and safety valves. They work fine so far, but you just can't tighten it up too much as it tends to sqeeze part of the oring out.
I've made washers our of gasket material too. Using a punch kit. They work fine too.
Sandman

Good to know Wallace. I wondered why I'd got so many in the Kit.
Sandman

O.K. Finally got the time to do it.

I prepared every thing needed and checked the little Bowman twin cylinder prior to a test steaming. I remembered all my tips and double checked everything for tightness.

I then smothered everything that moved in oil and made sure it turned over nice and smoothly.

The camcorder was ready and the kettle boiling. I lit the burner and let it fire up while I filled the boiler and looked for leaks. There were none so when filled, I tightened up the overflow plug and fitted the safety valve.

Very gingerly I inserted the burner and stepped back. Camcorder in hand, I waited. Before long there was a hiss from the safety valve and a few bubbles that soon stopped. A few seconds later I gave the countershaft a touch and away she went. I couldn't believe it. I bet this engine hadn't been steamed for countless years.

It started slowly at first then settled into a steady purrrrrr reminiscent of all Bowmans.

I got the camcorder going and took some shots and once I had that done I inspected it closely for leaks especially round the badly soldered parts. I could not find a leak anywhere. I let it run a few minutes more then took out the burner and stopped it.

I'm really pleased. This engine is my pride and joy and to find that it runs perfectly is better than I could have dreamed.

I'll get the vid on as soon as poss. Yippeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Mamodman123

Got it going then SM soiunds like a right beast! Can't wait for the video and pics . Then all the fun will begin SM . Not much can really go wrong with our toy steam engines, i'm not suprised it went like a rocket after all these years without a steaming sounds like a very nice buy!
Sandman

Mamodman123 wrote:
Got it going then SM soiunds like a right beast! Can't wait for the video and pics . Then all the fun will begin SM . Not much can really go wrong with our toy steam engines, i'm not suprised it went like a rocket after all these years without a steaming sounds like a very nice buy!


Working on the vid right now MM.

I thought something had to go wrong, but to get a perfect steaming on such an old engine first time. Well, I feel I got a right snip. Bet it's worth a bob or two when I get it finished. (Not that it's going anywhere.)
Mamodman123

Sandman wrote:
Mamodman123 wrote:
Got it going then SM soiunds like a right beast! Can't wait for the video and pics . Then all the fun will begin SM . Not much can really go wrong with our toy steam engines, i'm not suprised it went like a rocket after all these years without a steaming sounds like a very nice buy!


Working on the vid right now MM.

I thought something had to go wrong, but to get a perfect steaming on such an old engine first time. Well, I feel I got a right snip. Bet it's worth a bob or two when I get it finished. (Not that it's going anywhere.)


Give you a tenner for it SM careful cleaning and a bit of TLC and you'll have a lovely engine Bowman is next on my list maybe
Sandman

This was the one the missus couldn't see the value in. She thought it was rough and botched up. Told me I would never get it going. Pure waste of money.

Just shows what the uninformed think.
Sandman

Well, at long last here it is. My pride and joy in motion.

SPOKESMAN

Excellent stuff SM, like the production effects!

Sounds lovely - bit windy there?
Sandman

SPOKESMAN wrote:
Excellent stuff SM, like the production effects!

Sounds lovely - bit windy there?


Yep, was windy Mike, but it didn't affect the steaming. Needless to say I'm over the moon.

Thanks for the help Mike. I might not have got it if you hadn't told me how much to go. I'm going to enjoy doing this one up.
Mamodman123

LOL SM!!! Those effects were awsome I will buy a better video camera soon and get some of mine going nice job and a fantastic piece of machinery
Sandman

Mamodman123 wrote:
LOL SM!!! Those effects were awsome I will buy a better video camera soon and get some of mine going nice job and a fantastic piece of machinery


Thanks MM. Had to do a reasonable job as I'd promised the vid for a long time. Glad you liked it.

I still can't believe it went so well.

By the way, when you get meths on your hands and it lights, I can vouch for the fact that it's extremely sore. Worth it though to see it run.
Mamodman123

Yes I can imagine SM well worth it in the end though!

Might give the "MAHOOD" a run in a minute, you've inpired me SM
Lewis

mahood?
Sandman

Mamodman123 wrote:
Yes I can imagine SM well worth it in the end though!

Might give the "MAHOOD" a run in a minute, you've inpired me SM


Go for it MM.
Lewis

Mahood ?
SPOKESMAN

lewisop1991 wrote:
Mahood ?


Clown on ebay spelling of Mamod.
Mamodman123

SPOKESMAN wrote:
lewisop1991 wrote:
Mahood ?


Clown on ebay spelling of Mamod.


I ran her, fast as always, athough going to tidy the back up tomorrow. Looks like aradite and not solder some clown used.

Read the SE3 appreciation page on my webiste for an insight into the "Mahood"
Dauntless

Nice Engine Sandman, Really great to see it run

ps I like your Avatar!
Sandman

Dauntless wrote:
Nice Engine Sandman, Really great to see it run

ps I like your Avatar!


Thanks Dauntless.
Wallace

Great video Sandman. I love it!
Sandman

Wallace wrote:
Great video Sandman. I love it!


Just been thinking about a trial of my new camcorder and I think I'll do a vid of my Bowman M175 as the last one was chronic.

Continuing on that train of thought, I noticed when I've steamed both Bowmans there was almost no vibration at all. When I've steamed my Mamods there seemed to be quite a bit of vibration.

That would lead me to the conclusion that Bowman engines were better ballanced, but looking at the large grub screws ect, it does not appear so.

Maybe it's the countershaft that soaks up the vibrations? Just a thought.
Mamodman123

Sandman wrote:
Wallace wrote:
Great video Sandman. I love it!


Just been thinking about a trial of my new camcorder and I think I'll do a vid of my Bowman M175 as the last one was chronic.

Continuing on that train of thought, I noticed when I've steamed both Bowmans there was almost no vibration at all. When I've steamed my Mamods there seemed to be quite a bit of vibration.

That would lead me to the conclusion that Bowman engines were better ballanced, but looking at the large grub screws ect, it does not appear so.

Maybe it's the countershaft that soaks up the vibrations? Just a thought.


Could be a lot of reasons SM. although they do have heavey flywheels which make them a lot smoother compared to the late mamod ones that have very light flywheels? just a thought?
Sandman

Could be MM. The Bowman looks so simple yet performs so well. That may well be the answer.
Mamodman123

Sandman wrote:
Could be MM. The Bowman looks so simple yet performs so well. That may well be the answer.


Could also be the smaller piston stroke? Ive found the smaller the piston the smoother it runs although not the minor one as its very lightweight
Sandman

On my travels at the weekend I popped into The Pound Shop for a browse. I spotted a polishing kit that would fit a Dremel or equivalent.

Just checked it out and am amazed at the quality. I paid over £10.00 for a set with half the tools this one has. Great for removing excess solder and stuff. Has all the little wire brushes for removing rust etc.

Good value and no mistake.
Sandman

Pic of the Bowman oiler on the M135.

Same as the one I sent you in the PM MM.

Mamodman123

Cheers SM looks quite nice that doies!

Are the caps screwed on SM?
Sandman

Mamodman123 wrote:
Cheers SM looks quite nice that doies!

Are the caps screwed on SM?


No MM. Just a push fit.
Mamodman123

Sandman wrote:
Mamodman123 wrote:
Cheers SM looks quite nice that doies!

Are the caps screwed on SM?


No MM. Just a push fit.


That will make things easier
Dauntless

Sandman wrote:
Pic of the Bowman oiler on the M135.

Same as the one I sent you in the PM MM.



what is the internal details like ?
any chance of a pic looking inside?
Sandman

As requested.

Mamodman123

Thanks again SM!
SPOKESMAN

SPOKESMAN

Mamodman123

Cheers Mike, I'm trying to get a couple made up, and SM needs a cap doing so i'm trying to find pictures of oilers
Sandman

Another item on the Bowman M140 Twin restoration.

Remember the back of the firebox had the metal flap missing that held the burner in place.

One of our new members (John Chapman) mailed me and said that he had a complete M140 firebox that I could have if I wanted. I couldn't believe it, and John has just mailed me and said that it's on the way. That will mean my Bowman is complete. (Hope to steam it at the meet.)

Just shows what a helpful forum we have here. Thanks a mill John, I just hope I can be of help to you in the future.

Sandman.
Mamodman123

Great news SM, your bowman will be near perfect now . I know I say this a lot but I really should get into bowman a bit more .

Everytime a bowman comes along a nice mamod engine does though
Sandman

Mamodman123 wrote:
Great news SM, your bowman will be near perfect now . I know I say this a lot but I really should get into bowman a bit more .

Everytime a bowman comes along a nice mamod engine does though


I know MM. Just can't buy everything. (So the missus says.)
Mamodman123

Well you could SM! although you'd be divorced in a week and lose half of your estate
Wallace

Mamodman123 wrote:
Well you could SM! although you'd be divorced in a week and lose half of your estate


LOL, that's when it's time to dismantle engines.

Mate of mine had 3 muscle cars. Was going through a divorce, and basically he couldn't afford to keep the 3 of them, and pay his missus half of the value of them. Total value about 40,000 pound give or take a bit.

So he dismantled them over about 3 or 4 nights. Removing motors, gearboxes, diffs, bumpers and so on. His missus got them evaluated. Guy couldn't tell what was complete and what wasn't. Valued at around 10,000, so he had to give is missus 5000 rather than 20,000.

Put them back together and now he still has them
Sandman

Well done that man. One up for the boys.
Mamodman123

Wallace wrote:
Mamodman123 wrote:
Well you could SM! although you'd be divorced in a week and lose half of your estate


LOL, that's when it's time to dismantle engines.

Mate of mine had 3 muscle cars. Was going through a divorce, and basically he couldn't afford to keep the 3 of them, and pay his missus half of the value of them. Total value about 40,000 pound give or take a bit.

So he dismantled them over about 3 or 4 nights. Removing motors, gearboxes, diffs, bumpers and so on. His missus got them evaluated. Guy couldn't tell what was complete and what wasn't. Valued at around 10,000, so he had to give is missus 5000 rather than 20,000.

Put them back together and now he still has them



That'll teach her!!
Sandman

Well the little workshop is almost ready and I've amassed all of my tools. It won't be long till I can get my teeth into the Bowmans.

Just a matter of interest. I bought one of those small blowtorches that run on lighter gas. It took me ages to find a shop that sold it. Seems the nutters are sniffing the darned stuff so shopkeepers are being encouraged not to stock it. Anyone else had this problem? I should add that I stay in a small town, but I had difficulty in the bigger towns as well.
Mamodman123

Sandman wrote:
Well the little workshop is almost ready and I've amassed all of my tools. It won't be long till I can get my teeth into the Bowmans.

Just a matter of interest. I bought one of those small blowtorches that run on lighter gas. It took me ages to find a shop that sold it. Seems the nutters are sniffing the darned stuff so shopkeepers are being encouraged not to stock it. Anyone else had this problem? I should add that I stay in a small town, but I had difficulty in the bigger towns as well.


Is it like the swan lighter gas and fluid??? you can get it in the Spar no problem!
Sandman

Mamodman123 wrote:
Sandman wrote:
Well the little workshop is almost ready and I've amassed all of my tools. It won't be long till I can get my teeth into the Bowmans.

Just a matter of interest. I bought one of those small blowtorches that run on lighter gas. It took me ages to find a shop that sold it. Seems the nutters are sniffing the darned stuff so shopkeepers are being encouraged not to stock it. Anyone else had this problem? I should add that I stay in a small town, but I had difficulty in the bigger towns as well.


Is it like the swan lighter gas and fluid??? you can get it in the Spar no problem!


Must be local MM. Our spar will not stock it. The shopkeeper said that the police asked him not to as the local yobs were misusing it. My next big town is Kilmarnock and I had to really look around before I got a shop that stocked it. Bought 3 cans but had to explain to the assistant what I was using it for.
Mamodman123

Damn, I walked into our local Spar, had to use my I.D because the bloke didn't think I was over 16 which is laughable!!! So I showed him my driving licence and bought a can for my loco burner.

Spar was the only place I saw that stocked it
Sandman

Mamodman123 wrote:
Damn, I walked into our local Spar, had to use my I.D because the bloke didn't think I was over 16 which is laughable!!! So I showed him my driving licence and bought a can for my loco burner.

Spar was the only place I saw that stocked it


Just shows the state of the country MM.

If they're not smoking something, they're sniffing or injecting it.

The young guys on this forum give me hope in this crazy country.
Mamodman123

Sandman wrote:
Mamodman123 wrote:
Damn, I walked into our local Spar, had to use my I.D because the bloke didn't think I was over 16 which is laughable!!! So I showed him my driving licence and bought a can for my loco burner.

Spar was the only place I saw that stocked it


Just shows the state of the country MM.

If they're not smoking something, they're sniffing or injecting it.

The young guys on this forum give me hope in this crazy country.


It's a bloody disaster SM, my mum is one of those people who have been messed around with tax credits!!

Alright, own up to it, who voted Labour?

Waste of space! I had a bloody row in Wilkinsons because they thought I was under 16, went all the way home to get my driving licence just to proove a point!!!!!!!
Sandman

Honestly MM. I wish I had your trouble.

Wait till you get old and wrinkly like me. Wonder where the years went.
Mamodman123

Sandman wrote:
Honestly MM. I wish I had your trouble.

Wait till you get old and wrinkly like me. Wonder where the years went.


I don't know, it gets annoying after a while! i'm 19 on the 29th..... and I don't look that age at all . I'm yet to be stopped by the police in my car though
Wallace

Sandman, I too come from a small town where we have had similar problems. Strange how you, not being a kid, is questioned about it though

Might be worth trying a tobacconist shop. They usually sell the refills. Our local one here fills the lighters for people.
Sandman

Wallace wrote:
Sandman, I too come from a small town where we have had similar problems. Strange how you, not being a kid, is questioned about it though

Might be worth trying a tobacconist shop. They usually sell the refills. Our local one here fills the lighters for people.


Jeez Wallace. I never thought you would have the same problem. I managed to get some gas, but it was a real trial. I think they thought I might have been buying it to give to youngsters. I suppose I can't argue with that. It's a bit of a pain though.
Wallace

Oh yeah, never thought of them thinking that.

I know here, under 16's can't buy knives of ANY sort. Under 18's (I think or under 16) cannot buy spray paint due to graffiti. Soda bulbs for seltzer bottles can't be bought by youngsters cos they make bombs out of them, and the whipped cream bulbs are the same, and they also sniff them.

Strange.
Sandman

Wallace wrote:
Oh yeah, never thought of them thinking that.

I know here, under 16's can't buy knives of ANY sort. Under 18's (I think or under 16) cannot buy spray paint due to graffiti. Soda bulbs for seltzer bottles can't be bought by youngsters cos they make bombs out of them, and the whipped cream bulbs are the same, and they also sniff them.

Strange.


Sign of the times buddy. Unfortunately.
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