Building the Graham Industries TVR1A

MooseMan · Building the Graham Industries TVR1A

I managed to pull mu TVR1A kit out of the ParcelForce's clutches today....I ordered this a couple of weeks ago from the US, so I had to pay VAT on it - fine, but ParcelForce then charged me an £8 admin fee....and we wonder why they call us "rip-off Britain"....never mind.

For those of you who don't know it, this is a library picture of the finished engine:

It is a twin cylinder slide valve engine, with Hackworth reversing gear, sold as a kit by www.grahamind.com as a set of fully machined/CNC'd parts.

What you get is a big ziploc bag, containing a nicely spiral bound, well-written build manual, and lots of ziploc bacs containing many, many small parts, including some of the tiniest little screws I've ever seen. The set also comes with a little spanner, pre-cut gaskets, and some wet and dry. All you need to provide yourself is a sharp file and a set of small screwdrivers. All parts are machined, but some need lapping or filing. I also ordered a nice solid brass marine flywheel, which is completely finished.

First thing I've done is to sort all the smallest parts into a compartmented tray, for convenience. Some of these parts are so small they're best handled with tweezers, and a magnifying glass and good light is handy as well. Having done that, and already having read through the build instructions several times, I set about building the first step, which is assembling the crank, bearings, eccentric and eccentric straps onto the baseplate. The kit is machined to extremely close tolerances, so once the bearings are set up properly the crank turns beautifully, withoun any free play or binding. Here's a first picture, excuse the poor quality:

Seen here is the assembled base on top of the manual, plus the tray of assorted tiny parts.

I will post my progress with the engine here as I go along, and would welcome your comments.....at least one member here (steamyman) has one of these engines in running order.

syrtismajor

That looks fantastic! Keep us updated!

Steve_S

It looks very intricate. Watching with great interest!

johnreid

I hope you have a good magnifier, and a try to work on top of so small parts do not roll off of the table.
When done, that is going to be so cool.

bessytractor

a good start. How big is it when finished?

andysleigh

thats a beauty moose.

i just had a thought, that one of those would be good for my de winton.

IndianaRog

Oooh Moose, that is a bit more complex than I thought...should keep you busy for a few days!!!

johnreid

Is it done yet?

andysleigh

is there any other company who do things the same as that, but just a lil bit bigger, 1/2 inch bore s to small for my dewinton, i am looking for 9/16ths

rangerssteamtoys

You can get alot of power with that. What type of boiler are you going to use?

andysleigh

home made coal fired. ( see coal fired boiler help topic)

just thinking that the bore isnt big enough for such a big loco.

rangerssteamtoys

andysleigh · ah sorry. getting late, cant think straight. 2:00am

rangerssteamtoys · getting late, cant think straight. 2:00am

Stitch

Wow, what a cracker

I like it very much and it looks to be of great quality.
I presume you have something to put it in?

tmuir

That's going to keep you busy for a while.

I'm about to build a PM research horizontal single cylinder engine and mine's a lot simpler than that but has pour building instructions. It just has an exploded diagram with some notes on the side.
Look forward to the photos.

steamyman

hi Mooseman, I like the way you've set all the pieces.

It took me and my dad 3 months to build mine, hardest part was setting timing- I had a model engineer do that for me.

best of luck.

tmuir

I didn't realise yours was a kit one Clinton.
You and your dad did a nice job assembling it then.

steamyman

Stilldrillin

Oooooh, Moose!
That kit of part looks gorgeous! All those tiny components!

My fumbly fingers could cause absolute chaos in there......

Good luck with the build.

Sandman

I'll follow this thread with great interest Odilon.

That looks like a really testing project.

No doubt it will emerge as the usual top quality Moose engine.

I also look forward to the fiished vid.

MTA

Moose,

I swear you are getting into model engineering more and more by the day!

I shall be following this thread closely

MooseMan

Thank you for all the kind comments and encouragement.

To answer a few of your questions:

-For a boiler, I'm saving up for a gas fired Maccsteam one....I already have one of these in my big boat, and the build quality on those things is absolutely terrific.

-If you're looking for a similar engine but larger, I think you're probably looking at a Stuart double 10, which you can also buy as a kit. It is a lot more expensive though.

I do not have a specific hull earmarked for this, but my plan is to try it out in my big boat - the existing engine can be removed by undoing four bolts, work of seconds. I can imagine a scenario where I have one finished hull, but several engines to go in it. I do have a couple of smaller hulls lying around, I may experiment with those - we'll see.

Going through the kit with the build manual is interesting - Robert Graham has obviously made some improvements to the engine design since he wrote the manual, because some of the parts are subtly different, especially the ones marked in the manual with a "this is tricky....."

I'll keep you posted!

MooseMan

Right....first thing today I went off to Maplins and forked out £15 for a magnifying lamp/light and I'm glad I did....those tiny 1/8" screws need decent viewing. I assembled the gear linkage tonight - a step up in difficulty, a few small parts to be filed into shape, and some fiddly connections - but so far so good. Note the improved lighting in the picture - also, I've started working on a white towel, if I drop anything I wouldn't want it to bounce off the table.

bessytractor

looking good so far!

tmuir

Looking good Moose but if it's anything like when I built my loco expect to have to dismantle atleast part of it.
I had to several times mainly due to me misreading the instructions and using the wrong length screw or putting an offset part on upside down.

johnreid

That is a great start, cant wait to see it progress.

steamyman

aaaaah. seeing the pics brings back memories for me, I'll be watching this thread with great interest.

going well Odilon.

MooseMan

Good progress tonight - the valve gear is now finished. The bit in the manual lablled as "here's the tricky bit", which was setting up the bell crank support slides and reversing gear linkage, went off without a hitch....so far, so good. Enough for one evening, I'm doing this in small bits so my luck doesn't run out.

Les

That is looking real good Thumbs up!

, just try not to sneeze while your working with such small parts.

johnreid

yep, take small steps as if you get too carried away the Mooselings might hear words that they shouldnt hear.

Great Progress, I envy the project but probably lack the patience.

GUTMACH · Kit

Nice looking kit, my only peeve would be that I would have wanted hex head or socket head screws, instead of the slotted.

My wife heard me clear across the other side of the house when a brass hex head 2-56 screw shot out of my tweezer.

Never did find it.

Wayde

Sandman

Jeez Odilon. That does look fiddly.

I bet there will be a few choice words spoken before this project is finished.

Wallace

tmuir · Re: Kit

MooseMan

A huge push tonight....I'm crosseyed and my fingers are sore, but I'm pleased!

Lapped and cleaned all the steam critical parts, instrtalled all the seals and O rings and then basically tied the whole thing together.....I've decided to use the gaskets, even though it says in the manual that they're not really necessary if the lapping's done right....I just like gaskets!

Now comes the fun little job of setting the timing, but that's for another day....I'm knackered!

Photo shows the flywheel I'm using - I attached it so I could turn the engine over more easily.

johnreid

Dang, you will finish in no time! Great progress.

rangerssteamtoys

Looks very close to being finished. what else do you have to put on besides the slide valve cover?

steamyman

You've progressed very quickly Odilon, for that I give you a

well done.

tmuir

Coming together nicely, have fun with the timing.

Stilldrillin

Oh, my......... That really looks the business.

MooseMan

Les

That is looking the business now.

bessytractor

that was quick!

Do you think your SE2 boiler could run it until you get your new boiler?

MooseMan

Possibly.....I'll run it in on air, and apparently it will tick over at about 5psi - it'll empty out the boiler pretty quickly though. I can always use the Maccsteam vertical boiler currently in my big boat to try it out.

MooseMan

We've got a runner! Finished the engine in a couple of hours tonight....setting the timing was a precise little job, and I was glad of my magnifying lamp, but I got it right....put it on the airline at 15PSI as per the instructions, and the engine practically took off! I throttled the line down to less than 10 PSI, and the engine ran absolutely beautifully in both directions.....I had it running for a couple of hours, bit of oil every 30 minutes, she's sweet as a nut. Here's a picture to be going on with, I'm uploading the video now.

Happy Moose!!!!

rangerssteamtoys

GREAT
I was just about to ask for a vid.

Only about 20 minutes now and I'll watch the vid.

bessytractor

excellent job moose, she looks like a right good one!

Would be interested to compare it in power output with the Bogstandard engine. How similar are they in size?

syrtismajor

YAY!

That was fast! And a beautiful looking engine, that needs to be framed it's so nice. And I think that's the first time I've seen Hackworth gearing on a marine engine...

If you ever get bored with it, I'm sure I could look after it for you

MooseMan

It's about the same size as the Bogstandard engine.....it'll be interesting to see how the two compare.

The Hackworth gearing works an absolute treat.......this Robert Graham guy is one clever engineer!

MooseMan

Film's up! Get yer popcorn!

rangerssteamtoys

Great video. If it runs hat good on air, it will run twice as good on steam. [/i]

igy569

That is way cool. I am going to have to have one of those someday!!!

johnreid

Wow, that is so cool, I am impressed.

Cedge

Odilon
Excellent work there dude!! I thought you'd enjoy the project. The precision of the kits is not to be sneezed at. They do offer a clean little engine.

Steve

IndianaRog

Jeez Odilon, you sure didn't waste a minute getting that put together and running beautifully.

Question...if running on compressed air, what lubrication for cylinders is appropriate??? Steam oil, 3 in 1 oil, motor oil???

I have a marine engine I want to get run in on air, but don't know how much and what sort of lubrication is appropriate.

again, gorgeous work,
Rog

rangerssteamtoys

Cedge

Roger
I'd stay away from the 3 in 1 oil. It's great for some uses, but it tends to varnish as it ages. A bit of gun oil or even light grade motor oil tends to be a good choice. Varnish is no fun to remove from a small engine.

Steve

Stilldrillin

By `ek Odilon! That`s gorgeous, petal......

Pure, poetry in motion. Well done....

steamyman

Well done Odilon, she's a sweet runner.

Congrats on getting it to run 1st go- I hooked mine up to air & nothing..........sent to to model engineer to set timing.

MooseMan

Thanks for all the kind words guys!

Rog, I only used 3 in 1 oil during assembly, and for initial setting up and testing. During the run-in I used some of your "Green Velvet" - can't beat that stuff. After running in, the engine also received a thorough washdown with detergent and very hot water, to remove the waste oil.

It's a very clean little engine though - can't wait what she'll do on steam. I only ran her on 30PSI for a few seconds, but the revs were something to behold....it also packs a serious amount of power for such a small engine. Must get it in the boat soon and see how it compares to my John Moore engine.

Sandman

Oh yes Odilon. What a great engine.

You have to to be proud of that one mate.

Awesome runner too.

andysleigh

wow. thats realy nice. great work

how slow can it go before it stops.

Les

Very impressive and a great video. Thumbs up!

logoman

that is a beautiful little thing!
will you be able to attach a servo to the forward/reverse?

MooseMan

Yes you can - the build manual talks about this. If anyone's interested, you can download the manual as a PDF:

http://www.grahamind.com/TVR1ABook.pdf

logoman

Thanks Moose, those instructions seem well writen and clear, a good marketing tool in themselves.

CCairns

Being a casual visitor to the Forum at present, until I can get internet sorted out in my Aberdeen flat, I really hate the way that the 'postings not read' system works on here.

It seems that when you next visit, it marks everything at that point as read when you log off, even if you have only had time to read one or two. Thus the next time you visit those postings that you've not previously read are no longer highlighted. Most annoying!

So it was great to finally catch up with this very informative posting. It is a beautiful piece of engineering, and I look forward to seeing which maritime vessel you intend powering with this.

igy569

Yup. Me to.!!

She will be a really nice runner.

MooseMan

Thank you gents!

The intention is to have just the one big boat (my "Festina Lente"), but with interchangeable engines.

steamyman

CCairns

MooseMan

Finished a little refinement today - you have NO idea how hard it is to get hold of an R/C steam valve...I'd been banging my head against a wall until I glanced at my Jensen and thought hmmmmm......

To cut a long story short, thanks to the good offices of IndianaRog and John Reid I now have incorporated such a valve into my engine setup, and I am very pleased to report that it works impeccably, as you will see in the short movie. I had the engine sitting at tickover for so long that I eventually only noticed by the SV blowing like mad that the pressure had crept up to just below 60PSI - the valve had no problem holding that back at all.

Now all I need to do is install a servo link, and we're away!

johnreid

Works Great!

Les

It looks as if it was made for the job.

logoman

Thanks Odilon. I had not realised that such a thing as a servo controlled steam valve would have been so tough to source. very happy you worked it out and shared.

Received my TVR1A last week, super little kit isn't it? great instructions and beautifully machined parts. I'll be buying one of the other kits for my dad.

I''m making a start on mine tonight!

MooseMan

Excellent! Good luck with it....the only really useful advise I can give you is to make sure you use screws of the right length. Also, make sure that every stage is nicely broken in before you commence the nextone, especially the main shaft. There was an absolutely tiny misalignment in one of my bearing supports, which I fixed by cutting a sliver off a $1 bill and sliding that underneath.

Enjoy!

logoman

I've already come across a binding problem with these barings, but I've bugun to remove material rather than add. I hope I'm not digging a bigger hole

MooseMan

As long as you get that shaft spinning very freely, all's fair. A little bit of binding doesn't matter, that soon works out, just liberally oil the shaft and spin it with a drill or something, just to easy things up a bit. I think that part of the build took longer than anything else.

I kept he engine very well oiled during the build, and I also kept moving and spinning everything that moves or spins, so by the time I put it on the airline the initial stiffness was already largely gone.

Cam

great work odilon!!

how much did it cost?

logoman

By working out exactly which baring(s) are sit too high/low a few careful and closely measure runs along a fine file sorted it out.
It helps if the baseplate has been filed and sanded flat too, mine had some high points.

MooseMan

Cam

i wanted to know how much the TRV1A is? thats 245USD??

btw everyone i think this is the 20,000th post for Technical tips, Details, Home Builds and Help Me!!

MooseMan

steamyman

as a lot of you might already know, I've also got a TVR1a.

a while back I had 2 f/w on it . (one each end of shaft) well, I steamed it- got up some rpms then both f/w came off.......but engine kept on going!

johnreid

Multiple cylinder engines probably would run without a flywheel but not as smoothly.

MooseMan

With the flywheel off the engine it'll do about 4000rpm, which really is quite scary....it is at it's best when pulling a heavy load though, got the typical twin cylinder chug-chug.

GUTMACH · Sound Advise

MooseMan, very sound advice, and thanks for sharing the process of building your engine.

I have two kits that needs to be machined and built, one is a Stirling vertical engine and a almost 50 years old Stuart 10H. I will be tackling the Stirling first.

Thank you so much for documenting your efforts, and enjoy your labors.

Wayde

mogogear

Welcome to the group Wayde...With Moose you can't go wrong!!

logoman

Robert Kramer does a nice steam valve for RC, he's in Switzerland so his stuff is pricey...though i have my eyes on one of his 'Exclusive' engines if I have a windfall

He also does a great feed pump and some handy gas regulators.

kramer-steam.ch

MooseMan

Argh......

Back to the drawing board. The Jensen valve becomes much too stiff under 30 psi......can be moved by hand, but by servo? Forget it. I installed a high torque servo and......it bent the servo rod!

logoman

I've seen a few of these RC steam valves now, from different manufacturers, so they are available. I should bookmark this stuff

MooseMan

I've seen the German ones....they're nice, but pricey, and they're metric...

mogogear

mogogear

Valves I am exploring( this will be added to over the next 24hours)

1.http://www.hardwareandtools.com/invt/0462986?ref=gbase

2.[url]http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(fmtxsvbexmspby55ovcw03a0)/productdetails.aspx?sku=998004010&source=GoogleBase[/url]

3.A servo valve hybrid-- for pneumatics - it doesn't have temp range but it does handle up to 10bar!!

http://images.google.com/imgres?i...om.google:en-US:official%26sa%3DN

4.A steam regulator for a loco... maybe be located and mounted for use??

http://images.google.com/imgres?i...om.google:en-US:official%26sa%3DN

, Moose should we be replacing the handle on a globe valve with a gear and mount a gear on the servo to drive the globe valve??

I also have a email question into the folks at PM research

5. A drain cock valve.. wouldn't his work ....? and that is 4 valves for 20 quid

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Live-Steam-...ZViewItem?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

6.I will have to see how to order- but the term "ball cock valve" was one I wasn't using earlier..
So I found this site

http://www.dascosales.com/ballvalves.html they are the right sizes the specs say fro air only ,,, but steam is air and they are rated to 500 degree air use...

logoman

good research Greg! Some interesting options there.

Wouldn't the simplest solution be the 1/4" 40tpi RC steam valve for 1/8 pipe from Polly Model Engineering? It's £16.50.

their catalogue can be downloaded here:
http://www.pollymodelengineering.co.uk/

I prefer that Swiss one though, I like metric

MooseMan

The problem with the Polly valve is that it is unobtainable....they've been out of stock for ages. I'll email them again now and see what gives.

logoman

Moose, let me know, I could use a couple.

alan2525

That engine is a real beauty. It looks like it'll be really happy with a load on there, looks to be very powerful for such small cylinders. Terrific value too, for such lovely workmanship.

mogogear

Building the Graham Industries TVR1A

Kit

Re: Kit

Sound Advise