| Archive for The Unofficial Mamod and Other Steam Forum The Original Unofficial Toy Steam Forum Established 2006 The biggest, most popular steam forum around! Accept NO imitations! We have a growing community of regular posting members who chat about all aspects of toy and model steam. |
| mj |
cost of meths?How much do we all pay for meths (do any of us drink it )
local chav shop ( the Range), about £1.20/250ml http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/METHYLATED-...Z1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem just seen this, didn't think you be allowed to post it due to it being slightly flammable. |
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| SPOKESMAN |
Re: cost of meths?
Certainly not allowed to post it! |
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| mj |
Re: cost of meths?
Some of the courier drivers round here would drink half of before dropping it off 
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| SPOKESMAN |
I normally get mine form B&G about 1.70 for 500ml.
We have a 'Range' here too - as you said Chav shop - I refuse to go in there!!
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| Mamodman123 |
I get mine in Wilkinsons 1.19 for 500ml...No i don't drink it either, apparently they changed the taste of meths anyway 
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| tmuir |
What? 
Its not cola flavoured anymore?
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| SPOKESMAN |
I know it tasted so much better years ago . . . 
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| MTA |
If you mean B&Q Mike, I bought some meths for the same amount, but for £2.58
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| Mamodman123 |
Really?
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| oldstuff |
Last gallon(3.785liters)of Denatured Alcohol(methanol)I bought cost $15.19 U.S.
I wonder if it's different than methylated spirits. It is a clear liquid. My can says for thinning shellac, cleaning shellac brushes. Cleaning: Use full strength to clean non-lacquered jewelry and printing ink from rubber rollers. Dilute with two parts water to clean glass, porcelain, and piano keys. As a Fuel: Produces a hot, clean, odorless and smokeless flame in alcohol stoves. |
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| Mamodman123 |
Over here they changed it because of meths drinkers....IT was originally clear and it has a smokeless flame. Now its purple and leaves a hell of a lot of soot on the bottom of boilers
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| oldstuff |
Soot? Now that sucks! 
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| Mamodman123 |
It's nasty stuff! ITs the stuff that makes your hands completely black
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| TE1A_man |
I get a quart of denatured at my true-value hardware store, for about $4.49. I like meths, not a horrible smell, and burns much hotter and bigger than solid. | ||||||
| James |
I love the Range
It's amazing!! The home of random crap. I bought a foot long biro from there And some bits of fluff you can make do things
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| SJN |
would this stuff work?
Denatured Ethanol 93% Seems to burn well
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| Sandman |
I've made some bits of fluff do things in my time.
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| Mamodman123 |
Ermm, I've got no idea what it is? Unless it's another name for meths avoid! Flame looks a bit yellow
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| SJN |
It says that Methylated spirits is Ethanol
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Methylated_spirit |
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| Mamodman123 |
I don't want to say if it's the right stuff  but it seems OK
Maybe some of the oversea members can help you here? |
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| TE1A_man |
Yes, that stuff is ok, it is basically denatured alchohol. Either way, i have ran my D6 (safely) on spray on rust protection for metal. | ||||||
| Roly Williams |
I think denatured ethanol is the same thing as meths only meths has a purple dye in it to discourage meths drinkers. (It doesn't work - if you're that desperate you'll drink anything - the faster it kills you the better). | ||||||
| TE1A_man |
What i was trying to get at here is that you can run a steam engine on just about anything flammable (Anything rational, not gasoline) |
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| flywheel61 |
They must drink more over here in OZ, it's only about $3.75 (GPB 1.50) for 1 litre
Cheers
Chris |
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| Wallace |
Yup, it's very cheap over here in OZ.
And for those in countries other than UK, denatured ethanol is meths. Ours is always classed as Methylated spirits, with denatured ethanol as the ingredient (one I have is 95%, the other one is 98%). Also it's clear. If you are in doubt what is meths, go off the UN Number. It should be 1170 If not, then it's not meths. |
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| sparky |
i pay 97p for a 500ml bottle and 5.99 for 5L bottle from trago mills in devon
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| tarbyonline |
£2.49 for 500ml in homebase, £1.99 for 500ml in halfords. Looking for somewhere cheaper. Wonder what the chemist has it for? | ||||||
| James |
Chemist around here are £1.50 for 500ml | ||||||
| MTA |
£2.58 for 500ml in B&Q £2.49 for 500ml in Robert Dyas
Everything's so bloody expensive in the south 
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| James |
Cos you're all posh and when they see ya coming they rub their hands together and bump the prices up
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| SPOKESMAN |
I normally pay around £2.50 for meths in B&Q . . . . | ||||||
| Chris |
Think I paid about £2.49 for 500ml the other day. I could have got 5L for about £9 I think it was. Still I just tend to buy it when I see it if I am getting a bit low. |
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| Roly Williams |
You should have bought the 5l |
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| tarbyonline |
In my experience stuff is usually more expensive over here (unless its in tesco's or ASDA as they are having a bit of a price war over here due to a media outcry about us being ripped off). We usually end up paying one way or another for it to be stuck on a ferry over 
Surprised B&Q was more expensive than homebase, tho my wet+dry was twice the price it is in halfords! Think I will pop out to the chemist tomorrow (tho have 3 bottles here anyways) to see what they want. Sold me some Isopropyl alcohol a few years back for the computer and it was VERY reasonably priced. Would Lidl sell meths by any chance? |
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| SPOKESMAN |
Check em out . . . . wear a disguise.
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| old_timer |
I think £2.50 for 500ml is quite expensive although that is what B&Q get away with.
Wilkinsons should be selling it for £1.50 per 500ml nationwide. The cheapest I can get it is £1.39 for 500ml; one of the places is a local garden centre. This is in the south but you need to hunt them out. I don't even know if you can buy meths from the chemist anymore - you could years ago but it was always extremely expensive. I'll see if I can dig out my boots tin for nostalgia purposes, but originally it came in brown glass medicine type bottles, but I'm not sure they are allowed to sell it 'loose' anymore - think that might have been outlawed like other flammables such as paraffin; all comes in expensive pre-packaged bottles now.
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| Mamodman123 |
It's 1.20 in Wilko's I think.... or around that mark
That where I get mine from.... |
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| MTA |
Hi OT, all the chemists I have been in don't sell meths. Whereabouts in the south are you from? |
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| tarbyonline |
Wish we had wilkinsons over here! I am now on a quest to find the cheapest meths in NI! First stop - the local hardware shop.
What is a garden centre selling meths for btw?!?!?!? |
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| Mamodman123 |
Burning leaves?
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| tarbyonline |
Just thinking, maybe if you feed the plants it they grow quicker (due to the alcohol induced happiness)
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| Mamodman123 |
lol
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| steamgranny |
Finding Meth's equivalent in France had me scratching my head but after a bit of research am almost 100% certain it is 'Denatured Alcohol'. Clear liquid here, none of that mucky dye but just doesn't look right somehow
Comes in liter bottles but not sure of price, as had a couple in stock. Will check when next out shopping. Can also get it in chemist/pharmacie (used for sterilizing or cleaning wounds ) But in little bottles & more expensive. Can also get the pure, untampered-with stuff at 90 degrees proof from chemist  Use it all the time for making home-made liqueurs etc. cut 50/50 with water And if chummy with chemist can get it loose in useful amounts
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| Chris |
Excuse me for saying, but you are one cool granny. Just watch you don't go blind!
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| Roly Williams |
Yes, you're right. Denatured alcohol is the same stuff but without the dye. Like meths used to be in this country before the do-gooders tried to stop the winos drinking it. |
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| fcrammond |
Last time I was in France you could buy very good clear "alcool a bruler" in five litre containers from any large supermarket for about half the price of english meths. I think the price reflects the problem of the EEC wine lake. Of course if you want to burn it at STIA you will need a purple felt tip pen to turn it purple or you will get chucked out and all your engines confiscated (new penalty I just thought up).
Cheers Fred |
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| old_timer |
As promised, here is an old tin of meths from Boots the Chemist from days gone by - as I said, I'm not sure you can get meths from a chemist anymore and I've certainly not seen anything like this on the shelves for many moons.
As for why the garden centre sells it today, I think it is for lighting pressure paraffin lamps such as Tilley which is becoming very common for use on patios etc. |
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| Roly Williams |
Tilley lamps are responsible for more singed beards than Stanley cars ever were! |
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| steamgranny |
Correct & that's the stuff. I've just checked the label & it states: Ethanol 90% volume (denatured ethyl alcohol). Contains concentrated Methanol < 5% Used for fondue sets, plate warmers, alcohol lamps, cleaning windows & plastic surfaces. Removing food stains, felt tip & biro. Making Brass & ivory shine ( ) And destroying pests on plants.
A few things on there that I didn't know about! Especially the brass! Shame I can't ship you some
Can see a growing stream of steam fanatics nipping over for the meths rather than the wine, beer & ciggies
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| steamgranny |
Already am a bit but nothing to do with the alcohol  
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| James |
DFo ya like a pint o Guinness SG? | ||||||
| steamgranny |
You bet! My favorite tipple but only draught & can't get it here. They tried locally but not the same. Better than that, I used to drive a tractor at Guinness hop fields (first lady driver they ever employed).....nothing like getting the job done yourself
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| James |
Aye, it's Draught for me aswell.
You worked for Guinness??
You lucky bugger
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| steamgranny |
Yes Especially as tractor drivers had access to their own special cask up at the oast
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| James |
Jealously level is over riding
Mum says it tastes like bile
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| steamgranny |
..............But, not a hop field left in E. Sussex & Kent.....all gone
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| steamgranny |
That's all the more for you then My own granny used to drink a bottle a day, 'doctor's orders' - for the iron
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| James |
I asked them if they could pescribe me Guinness for my broken wrist
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| steamgranny |
.............Better than spinach
Think we've drifted a bit  here What's this got to do with meths 
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| James |
It has, it's alcohol
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| James |
It has, it's alcohol
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| steamgranny |
..........alcohol! That's right, so we are still on-topic after all
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| James |
I love Spitfire Ale aswell
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| steamgranny |
I don't know that one, is it a local brew? |
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| James |
Naa it's Kent.
Brewed by Shepherd Neame. They brew Tangle Foot and Hob Goblin (I think) aswell. |
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| jim-gainsborosteam |
mmmm, real ale.
spitfire, bombadier oooooh i love them all. and being tru to my lincolnshire roots, you cant beat a nice pint of Batemans XXXB, nice pint. |
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| tarbyonline |
Spitfire is nice. Had it when i was in London. Believe it or not, the best pint of Guinness I have ever had was in England! Still not short of a good pint over here though Dont think it would be much good for powering steam engines mind! Didn't realise meths could cause a lot of soot. Is it worse than with the fuel tablets?
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| Mamodman123 |
It is now! meths does create a fair bit of soot! probably more than solid fuel. Apparently they changed it... it never used to leave soot like that
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| James |
That's a load of crap!
Watch this video, it is my Wilesco D22 using the old meths. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqhfPwl3TeI Lancaster Bomber beer is good
99p for a big bottle in that shop, oh what is it called? Oh erm, B&M bargains or summats |
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| Mamodman123 |
I'm only going by what someone told me on here Jimbo
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| James |
All rate but there is modern day evidence that that is a load of bull
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| Mamodman123 |
Good! I got shot down on here before for saying it was always like that
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| James |
You won't no more, Jimmy boys in town 
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| Mamodman123 |
Aye good man 
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| James |
Don't diss with a Donny fan
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| Mamodman123 |
Who are your bitterbitter rivals? Like Palace Millwall Liverpool Everton Arsenal Spurs |
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| James |
Scumthorpe
You'll be playing them next season, they stormed this season. Top of the league by miles
Their fans don't sing at all. |
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| old_timer |
Well you learn something everyday don't ya?
I've just discovered that surgical spirit has the same composition as methylated spirit which is basically 80-90% ethanol, 10% methanol (or other similar compound to make it poisonous), up to 10% water and in the case of methylated spirit a trace of dye and possibly a scent too. Now that explains why I've not seen meths in a chemist for years - they now call it surgical spirit and charge the earth for it! I'm sure it's about £2.99 for 200ml in superdrug. |
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| James |
No mate, I buy my purple methylated spirit from the chemist still. £1.50 for 500ml. | ||||||
| tarbyonline |
I hope you spat after saying spurs!  *spits*
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| oldstuff |
Very interesting, OT, I didn't know that. 10% methanol seems weak, I'll check my can's label...Hmm. Not a word on it's composition. Just says Denatured Alcohol in several places. Ours isn't tinted over here, but clear. Some(including myself)suspect the U.S. stuff may be more potent, but it's just a hunch. Superdrug meths sure ain't a superdeal. Superbandits! 
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| Graham-Jilly |
We have no trouble geting meths here its on the shelves of every supermarket or corner store and cheap too | ||||||
| SPOKESMAN |
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| Wallace |
Well if it helps, the meths here, readily available in supermarkets, is 95% ethanol. No make up of what the other 5% is. So maybe it's ever moreso potent? In reference to a previous comment.. Denatured alcohol is the same stuff but without the dye I'm not sure, cos ours is called methylated spirits, but is has no dye, looks like water. The only definite way to make sure it's the same stuff, is the UN Number. It should be 1170. If the denatured alcohol has that number, then it is the same as Meths |
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| MTA |
James? Not knowing his own beers? Tanglefoot is Hall and Wodehouse beer, they brew Badger beer as well
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| Chris |
And Hobgoblin is brewed by Wychwood, who also do an astounding stout. So 0/2 for James. |
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| oldstuff |
Wallace, is the UN number part of the UPC code? | ||||||
| MTA |
Ahh, but Hob Goblin is a special beer by Shepherd Neame as well. It os only available during the Faversham International Hop festival, so you have to go to Faversham, Kent to sample it. So it's only available for 3 days a year
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| Wallace |
Not sure mate. It could be. Hang on, what is the UPC code? Is that a bar code, for scanning when you buy it? If so, then no, it shouldn't be part of the number. It should be someone, on it's own, and clear to see. I know. Does yours have a red diamond, saying flammable? It might be under that diamond? The idea of it, is it's a internationally recognised number (for meths or other chemicals/posions etc) so in cases of emergencies, there is no language barrier, be it different language, or different culture Much like you guys call Gasoline, gas, we call it petrol. But it would have the same UN Number |
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| oldstuff |
Hmm. That sucks. No diamond or UN number. In the cautions section it says
Contains Methanol but not how much. I think it's weird not having a breakdown of the contents anywhere on the can. Perhaps it was thought that people would confuse a list of contents and think it was food? |
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| SPOKESMAN |
We have had it down here a few times . . . | ||||||
| oldstuff |
What do you mean, Mike? |
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| SPOKESMAN |
Hobgoblin ale . . . |
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| Wallace |
Wow, isn't that odd. And yeah, as you say, it sucks. I was hoping we'd get an idea of what meths is in each country
Even Roundup has a UN number, but don't know if it's on the bottle. By law, over here, ANY chemical used at our workplace has a Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS). It has full details of EVERYTHING on the chemical. What to do if it catches fire, if you are poisoned by it, etc etc And guess what, I did a search for Material Safety Data Sheet Methylated Spirits I found this one from a manufacturer in Connecticut. http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cac...en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=au |
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| Wallace |
And denatured alcohol is the same as shown by UN number
http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cac...en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=au |
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| Wallace |
Sorry, one more.
Denatured alcohol MSDS from the same company as the meths one, for comparison http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cac...en&ct=clnk&cd=6&gl=au |
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| James |
Was getting latem, I was half asleep, and we need a F**K YOU emoticon like on msn... |
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| oldstuff |
Another question worth asking is which alcohol is more flammable, Ethyl or Methyl?
It might shed some light on whether Methanol content affects burnability. So far everything I've read indicates Methyl alcohol added for it's poisonous properties. COMPOSITION % CAS # TLV HAZARD Ethyl alcohol 82.9 000064175 1000 ppm Flammable Ethyl acetate 0.2 141-78-6 400 ppm Flammable Methyl alcohol 16.4 000067561 200 ppm Flammable, poisonous Methyl ethyl ketone 0.5 I copied the above from a Canadian company, Syndel... http://www.syndel.com/msds/denatured_ethanol_msds.html |
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| old_timer |
Oh, you're hurting my head now trying to remember my chemistry.
Methanol (or methyl alcohol) is the most basic of the alcohols with chemical formula CH3OH Ethanol is the next most simple alcohol with chemical formula C2H5OH (Sorry the numbers should be subscripted but haven't managed to work out how to do that here - it was never an issue when I learnt this stuff) Now if I remember correctly it's combustion goes something like this (this is getting complicated - I'll use an image): 
Which should mean , if i've got this right, that ethanol burns with a greater heat output than methanol. You are correct, that methanol is added purely to make the product poisonous (undrinkable) and so is exempt from excise duty. |
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| oldstuff |
I hear ya, Old_timer. I've been to several websites, poured over data sheets,
etc., this morning and I can't take it no more! But, I'm thinking that since Ethanol is the primary ingredient, the percentage of methanol is probably not much of a player in terms of combustibility. |