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kusuchi

Doll 610/1 Fountain

Paintwork condition is actually quite good.  It's going to need some major work on functionality, however.

Thanks Les for the pictures of the missing spout.

I still don't understand how it was supposed to work.  Inside the stand below the bowl I can see the small copper pipe from the pump.  It seems to extend about 1/2 "into the stand and stop.  Was the entire stand supposed to fill with water before coming out of the spout? Or was that copper pipe attached to the spout.

It doesn't look as if anything was ever attached to the pipe,  but on the other hand, the solder seal between the stand and the base does not seem intact for the entire circumference.  This would allow for water to leak back into the pond.

Of course, if the pump is fast enough that may not matter.

Any insights greatly appreciated.










Kritika

Can’t offer any advice Richard,

But damn that fountain sure looks good on your veranda.
MTA

Ever since Les first posted a picture of one of his fountains, I have wanted one of these

I'm sure Les can help you with your queries Richard
oldstuff



Richard, I believe the pipe hanging down at the wall is the water inlet pipe.
The piston then pumps it out the other pipe to the spout. So, to operate it,
the fountain must be filled so the water level is above the inlet pipe opening.
Atticman

That is so neat,

Chucks quite right, basically the same principal as the oscillating engines, only using water not steam.

the inlet pipe is down at the bottom, as Chuck says
.
kusuchi

oldstuff wrote:


Richard, I believe the pipe hanging down at the wall is the water inlet pipe.
The piston then pumps it out the other pipe to the spout. So, to operate it,
the fountain must be filled so the water level is above the inlet pipe opening.


You are absolutely right.  Many references actually refer to these models as ponds not fountains. They originally came with floating celluloid Ducks or Swans, now collector's items in their own right.

Here are Les's pictures of the missing spout.







An ideas on how I might replicate this?

Les, I can't tell from the pics, but is the hole the same inside diameter as the copper pipe?  

What I'm trying to establish is whether the pipe is connected to the spout inside the base.  There are a number of things that indicate that it was not.
Atticman

Richard, i think a piece of brass will need to be machined here.

Quite easy if you have access to a lathe.

I assume the copper pipe goes up into the spout. Maybe it was soldered in, but possibly silicone would seal the pipe in to the spout  now  
Les Marsh

Richard,

You have two pipes connected to the piston.
One short pipes which sits below the level of the reservoir and feeds the piston.
The other which comes from the piston and then into and out of the bowl.
The bowl has no function, it is for decoration only.
The spout which is missing from yours but shown on mine is connected the the piece of pipe inside the bowl.
The way it works is the hole in the spout is SMALLER than the copper pipe. This is so that the water comes out under pressure otherwise the water will just dribble out of the spout.
Les Marsh

Hopefully this video will help you see how it works.

johnreid

Wow that really pumps the water too!.
kusuchi

Les Marsh wrote:
Richard,

You have two pipes connected to the piston.
One short pipes which sits below the level of the reservoir and feeds the piston.
The other which comes from the piston and then into and out of the bowl.
The bowl has no function, it is for decoration only.
The spout which is missing from yours but shown on mine is connected the the piece of pipe inside the bowl.
The way it works is the hole in the spout is SMALLER than the copper pipe. This is so that the water comes out under pressure otherwise the water will just dribble out of the spout.


Thanks Les,

I am questioning whether the pipe was connected to the spout inside the bowl stand for the following reasons,

The bowl stand is soldered to the base around it's entire circumference.  You can fill the stand with water and it does not leak.

Where the pipe enters the bowl stand has also been completely sealed with solder, unnecessary since it's underwater, it could just have been tacked.

The pipe only extends into the bowl stand 1/2"and there is no evidence it was ever joined to anything.

I have since removed the pump assembly so you can see what I mean.



Is it possible that the pump filled the entire bowl stand before the water existed from the spout at the top?

Have you ran yours?  If there is a significant time delay between the pump starting and the fountain operating?

I will take Atticman's advice and find a machinist with a lathe to make a spout.

The question is will I have to remove the entire bowl stand to install a connecting pipe?
Atticman

mmm  at first I  thought that theres a missing 90 degree pipe coming into the spout,

but maybe the whole fountain inside does fill up.
The piston must generate quite a pressure for it to do that though,
and give such a spout as Leses does  
johnreid

If it were mine, IO woulf make a coupling of sorts to join the pipe that goes towards the fountain and the pipe that would be fitted with the spout, that way I would think that here would be no need to remove the bowl. I bet a bit of rubber tubing would make the coupling
pauly

thats great   shame about that missing part though.
Les Marsh

I have run mine as you can see in the video, the pipe on mine runs from the piston through the bowl to the spout and does not fill the inside of the bowl.

Whoever did the the repair on yours did it wrong.

It looks and sounds like that they soldered around the bowl so when it ran the water only flowed over the edge of the bowl and back into the reservoir.
Les Marsh

There is no time delay from the turning of the flywheel to water spraying from the spout, it is virtually instantanious.
Nick

I only bid around $20-$25 on this same one, because the missing spout scared me.

I am glad a forum member got it, and I hope you get it working right.

I never realized they pumped that much water.
kusuchi

johnreid wrote:
If it were mine, IO woulf make a coupling of sorts to join the pipe that goes towards the fountain and the pipe that would be fitted with the spout, that way I would think that here would be no need to remove the bowl. I bet a bit of rubber tubing would make the coupling


Great idea John,

But I think it would melt when I soldered the spout.  I might be able to make an L shaped piece as a tail piece to the spout and maneuver it through the hole in the base.  Then make the connection outside in the pond.
Les Marsh

kusuchi wrote:
johnreid wrote:
If it were mine, IO woulf make a coupling of sorts to join the pipe that goes towards the fountain and the pipe that would be fitted with the spout, that way I would think that here would be no need to remove the bowl. I bet a bit of rubber tubing would make the coupling


Great idea John,

But I think it would melt when I soldered the spout.  I might be able to make an L shaped piece as a tail piece to the spout and maneuver it through the hole in the base.  Then make the connection outside in the pond.


That sounds like the easiest solution.
kusuchi

Atticman wrote:
mmm  at first I  thought that theres a missing 90 degree pipe coming into the spout,

but maybe the whole fountain inside does fill up.
The piston must generate quite a pressure for it to do that though, and give such a spout as Leses does  


Too true,

Best to play it safe, I think.
kusuchi

Les Marsh wrote:
I have run mine as you can see in the video, the pipe on mine runs from the piston through the bowl to the spout and does not fill the inside of the bowl.

Whoever did the the repair on yours did it wrong.

It looks and sounds like that they soldered around the bowl so when it ran the water only flowed oever the edge of the bowl and back into the resevoir.


Thus eliminating the need for a spout.  

I'm also missing the manual crank handle.
Les Marsh

kusuchi wrote:
Les Marsh wrote:
I have run mine as you can see in the video, the pipe on mine runs from the piston through the bowl to the spout and does not fill the inside of the bowl.

Whoever did the the repair on yours did it wrong.

It looks and sounds like that they soldered around the bowl so when it ran the water only flowed over the edge of the bowl and back into the reservoir.


Thus eliminating the need for a spout.  

I'm also missing the manual crank handle.



Maybe you could get your jewellers to manufacture one for you.

Do you want any pictures of one?
kusuchi

Les Marsh wrote:
kusuchi wrote:
Les Marsh wrote:
I have run mine as you can see in the video, the pipe on mine runs from the piston through the bowl to the spout and does not fill the inside of the bowl.

Whoever did the the repair on yours did it wrong.

It looks and sounds like that they soldered around the bowl so when it ran the water only flowed over the edge of the bowl and back into the reservoir.


Thus eliminating the need for a spout.  

I'm also missing the manual crank handle.



Maybe you could get your jewellers to manufacture one for you.

Do you want any pictures of one?


I think it is fairly visible on your photos.  The only question is the thread gauge.  If you have the time a close up could be useful.

Thanks,
Les Marsh

kusuchi wrote:
Les Marsh wrote:
kusuchi wrote:
Les Marsh wrote:
I have run mine as you can see in the video, the pipe on mine runs from the piston through the bowl to the spout and does not fill the inside of the bowl.

Whoever did the the repair on yours did it wrong.

It looks and sounds like that they soldered around the bowl so when it ran the water only flowed over the edge of the bowl and back into the reservoir.


Thus eliminating the need for a spout.  

I'm also missing the manual crank handle.



Maybe you could get your jewellers to manufacture one for you.

Do you want any pictures of one?


I think it is fairly visible on your photos.  The only question is the thread gauge.  If you have the time a close up could be useful.

Thanks,


The handle is moulded in with the pulley on mine so no thread. It must be a later model to yours.

johnreid

kusuchi wrote:
johnreid wrote:
If it were mine, IO woulf make a coupling of sorts to join the pipe that goes towards the fountain and the pipe that would be fitted with the spout, that way I would think that here would be no need to remove the bowl. I bet a bit of rubber tubing would make the coupling


Great idea John,

But I think it would melt when I soldered the spout.  I might be able to make an L shaped piece as a tail piece to the spout and maneuver it through the hole in the base.  Then make the connection outside in the pond.


That is what I was thinking
Les Marsh

Have you had any luck in getting this repaired yet Richard??
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