Empco B35 Turbine - new video

Mister Occlusion · Empco B35 Turbine - new video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJywv0F1l_E

Bought this one from Don Stilson last week.

I had to rebuild the SV and install a new gasket under that big brass bolt to the rear of the turbine (and for some reason it seems to leak, as though there was a hole through it).
After that it ran great until the extra pressure that I was able to build up blew the old seal from the bottom sight glass lug. Water was just about fountaining out

So I'll have to service that. No big deal; did my B30 last year.

It's a neat little machine, but it has next to no torque. I expect it could run some shop tools and that's about it. When I fix it I'll try it with the Jensen 100, though I think that might be too much.

So now I've got a Wilesco T90, an Empire/Empco B35. What could be next?.....

Graham-Jilly

thats great mr O love the sound of it winding up to speed

steamyman

very

Mr O.

johnreid

Some day, I have to own a turbine, I LOVE that sound.

Mister Occlusion

I just had another run tonight and it was even better, though I didn't get a vid.

I spent a good long time cleaning the old grout-like red crud out of the sigh glass mounts with a dental pick in order to get the glass out - This is the second of 2 Empires I've got and the tubes on both of them are cut to such a tight tolerance that the insides of those mounts have to be utterly spotless before you'll have enough give to get the glass out...man, I never thought it'd go (chipped/worried a few shards off one end too, quite on purpose).

Then there's that big screw to the rear of the turbine, plugging up a machining hole or something. For some reason the screw has a small pair of slots right at the base of the thread that penetrate to the outside. Only found this after cleaning out a bunch of old caulking that someone had put in there to plug them up. At first I tried an O-ring, snug fit to the screw, but that was no good. In the end I used a thick CA glue to plug those holes.

Now the thing screams.

I also figured out that the whistle top has to be aligned a certain way for the whistle to work. Now it just wails. The Empire steam whistle is the loudest and most clear and nicest sounding whistle of any of my engines. And it only sounds better as pressure builds, instead of being overwhelmed, like most whistles seem to get at higher pressures.

With that 400watt heater going full tilt the SV starts to seep, even with the engine going full tilt. Cranking it back to 100volts or so still gives a most satisfying run without losing steam.

I'll see if I can film it running something tomorrow. I suspect that I'll have to add an Empire transmission unit to the mix someday, to trade some of that RPM for torque.

IndianaRog

Mark, that was a super video. I have one of the B-35's, but it is in the "to do" pile for rebuild. Yours is the first I have heard actually run and run it does. What a great sound.

Please do a second video now that you have the leaks plugged, it has to sound even better.

Les

That looks and sounds great, would love to see what it could run.

Mister Occlusion

Okay, here's the result of tonights run. After this one my super glue fix on the big bolt blew out (lots of pressure in there), so I'm going to clean it out and try again, maybe with a thin bit of epoxy putty.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YyWXifyayTc

The whistle is quite nice, and sounds clear even at full blast. Unfortunately whatever limiter the camera mic has kicks in and damps the sound right out

You can hear the turbine whine fairly well if you turn your sound up. Sorry about the voice; I should have kept quiet ...

I tried to run a generator from it, but had no luck. Maybe a computer fan dynamo would work okay.

Empire must have had to go with such a large part in order to be able to get any sort of useful torque out of it, since it's not got reduction gears like contemporary toy turbines have.

Wallace

Mr O that is brilliant. Thanks for posting that vid. I really enjoyed that one

Kinda has the old air raid siren sound to it when winding up

IndianaRog

I love it...great whine, great whistle and from the looks of it a very nice condition piece. Is the boiler really as nicely nickeled as the right side appears to be? Looks brand new!

mc_mc

I was listening at work with headphones. OUCH!

Mister Occlusion

The boiler has a little ding on the back, as though shot with a BB, and some of the nickel on the end cap has flaked off the side, exposing some brass. Otherwise it's pretty decent. Just a bit dirty here and there.

I bought it to be a runner, though. Been looking for one since last fall, and every time they come up they are more and more dear to buy, up around and over the $200 mark lately, so I think I got an okay deal.

I also prefer the older style Empires, like this, with the larger sight glass and end caps. They just look more pleasing to the eye.

Now I just need a nice B31 vertical. And those are becomming more and more dear as well

bigal

I didn't see the sign to put our trays and fasten our seatbelts

igy569

I love the sound those turbines make.

But... I drive a turbo car.. so this is to be expected. Rangers big boiler idea, as me thinking. I have several turbos around, and I will bet I could run steam through one just for the cool sound!!!

Very cool Mr O (sounds weird saying that, cause I have the same nickname!)

Mister Occlusion

Les

The second video sounded even better. Thumbs up!

Nurburgringer · question from a fellow B-35 owner/operator

Nice video and write-up!

I bought this B-35 off Ebay about a month ago

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI....RK:MEWNX:IT&item=250253523887

Yesterday I put a drop of oil on the shaft, filled with distilled water and fired her up for the first time.

The heater seems pretty strong; only about 5 minutes before I was getting some steam out of the whistle, and then the leaks started.... nothing all too serious, but most of the 70 year old gaskets (the one for the whistle being the worst offender) unsurprisingly had some bubbling. Depsite this, she runs! Not as fast as your's due to the lower pressure, but a great sight and cool sounds

so the question: what does one use for new gaskets?
I did a search of this site but came up with hundreds of threads, mention of teflon sheet material, but no sources.
Would be great if someone made a full kit for the B35 but I kind of doubt anyone does....

cheers!
Kurt
Milwaukee
Steam Turbine engineer

johnreid

I bought a sheet of Teflon on Ebay and a cheap set of punches, Homemade gaskets are real nice, and cheaper in the long run. Welcome to the forum, from Indiana.

Nurburgringer

thanks for the reply and the welcome John

Is this the same type of teflon as you bought?

http://cgi.ebay.com/Teflon-Sheet-...PageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

no mention of thickness, but that's really all the comes up when searching for "teflon sheet"

Have to walk over to the Harbor Freight store next to me office tomorrow to see about punches.

Kurt

MooseMan

Mark that's very nice indeed....as for where next, I think you need a B-31 in your life, or failing that, a B-30......there's a couple of Empires that can do some serious work.

johnreid

Kurt this is what I bought
http://cgi.ebay.com/TEFLON-SHEET-...iewItemQQ_trksidZp1742.m153.l1262

That should be a many years supply if not a lifetime supply.

IndianaRog

Hi Kurt and another welcome from Indiana (John Reid and I are the two forum members from Indiana so we form the welcoming committee!!)

John has already given you the link to Materialmaster5 (eBay seller) who sells all manner of gasketing material including the 0.025" thick teflon sheeting that lends itself well to gasketing for steam engines. If you order it however, ask specifically for the teflon sheeting without the adhesive backing...he sells the stuff both ways but without adhesive it is easier to handle.

A set of those Harbor Freight punches is a good start, but you might find for one size or another that sharpened bits of brass tubing or ammo casings work well. It has been a few years since I rebuilt an Empire, but I also found my local ACE hardware plumbing dept. to be a valuable source of black rubber gaskets...I literally took an engine into the hardware store and found gaskets to fit on a try it on for size basis (the staff also love to see my little engines which I have taken a few in for gasket sizing).

All in all, the Empires as with most toy steam, are simple machines with just a handful of gaskets needed. They do run much better if they are not gushing from all the joints!!!

Good luck and welcome again,
cheers,
Roger

rangerssteamtoys

Welcome to the forum. I use automotive rasket material, can be picked up by the foot and thickness at a good auto parts store.

I have alot of it laying around.

Nurburgringer

thanks for the link John, and appreciate the welcome Rog and Ranger!

Rog - you had sent me some good emails when I asked you about an interesting old steam turbine on Ebay about 3 months ago. It looked like a Bing or maybe Doll, with a horizontal split casing and who knows what inside (multi-stage?!). That one went for around $900, about $100 over my max bid...

Anyway, I'm glad to have the Empire and a bunch of extra cash in my pocket - despite what some people think about the B35's looks I think it looks great. Very functional and solid yet with the red base and shiny boiler and turbine case, quite stylish. I'm proud to put this on my display shelf!

I am a bit nervous about the pending dissasembly to replace gaskets, and wondering if I shouldn't just go all the way with restoring it: sandblasting and painting the cruddy valve body and slightly rusted base, polishing up the (mint but slightly tarnished) boiler, refinsihing the un-chipped wooden throttle and whistle knobs etc. But then again, the 70 year old patina is pretty cool, and just like classic cars and artwork authentic patina on a used but well cared for example will always win out vs. an over-restored example.

By the way, there was some scale in the sightglass, so on a whim I ran through some distilled water mixed with a couple tablespoons of "Dip-it" coffeemaker clearner/descaler. Seemed to clean out the sightglass very well - then flushed out the system with pure distilled water. Is there any reason running a de-scaler through could be harmful to the system?

also - the whistle wasn't putting out a good noise - on page 1 Rog you mention about swivelling the whistle to get it to make a good strong sound, which I'll try next time. But looking at it now it's clear that the whistle has a split line that was soldered. I'm guessing that the whistle tube was made out of flat bar stock, rolled and soldered then filed for the whistle, and this wasn't some kind of repair/replacement. Rog does yours look like the pic?

cheers
Kurt

Nurburgringer

let's go to the video tape!

johnreid

I love the turbines and will have to get one some day. How far you go in the restoration process is up to you as you will hear arguments both ways. Roger gets them looking like new and smoe like them to look like they are their age.

rangerssteamtoys

I too would like a turbine, but something big enough to power my house

Les

Very nice, and welcome to the forum.

IndianaRog

Kurt, welcome aboard. I do remember your questions a few months ago regards that unique looking turbine on eBay...sorry you missed it if you had your heart set on it.

As for the B-35...no problem running coffee pot descaler thru the boiler diluted...so long as you rinsed it out well. Most of us use vinegar to get the same result, but I might just try your idea on the next one caked with calcium deposits.

Looking at your whistle top, I think it might come from another engine, doesn't look as chunky as my 4 do. If you need new whistle top, wooden handles, or select other bits for Empires, Don Stilson is THE one and only source. His website and email can be found on my website under the Empire tab. Be thankful you have a good heater on your Empire, it is their one achilles heel for when they go, you either find the break in the nichrome wire and/or rewire one, or they become shelf queens. No one makes replacement heaters that fit Empires unfortunately.

As for conservative vs. full blown restoration...I best NOT guide you, I tend toward the full meal deal unless something is of the Shroud of Turin rarity...then I'm more cautious. Bottom line, do as much or as little as you are comfortable with doing. The B-35 is not a super rare beast, but rarer than the more usual Empire finds.

Again, welcome!!

Rog

Nurburgringer

thanks Les -

And sorry to the OP Mark as I not only hijacked your thread, but also got you and Rog confused!

Mark the write-up and video of yours is excellent - I NEED to get mine spinning that fast

Rog thanks for the tips - I've emailed Don about a replacement whistle. I looked through the replacement procedure for the heating element on your site - agree that this is something I'd rather not have to mess with....

John - also, during the next Milwaukee winter a full resto sounds like a good way to pass some time

Kurt

Mister Occlusion

Ach, I didn't notice this thread had new posts anyway, so don't worry about diverting things

The teflon sheeting is great stuff indeed.

Don's whistle tops are excellent quality stuff too. I bought one for my B30, which was missing it.

The hole in the whistle should be lined up with the slot on the whistle base (you have to take the top off to see it).

Yours seems to spin up faster than mine. I'm wondering if I might have some gunk in my lines (aside from the leaking plug screw).

Sorry for the hectic post, but I'm running late for work now!

johnreid

You tried PTFE on the plug screw Mark? I bet it would do the trick.

Mister Occlusion

John, that plug screw is a weird affair.

Imagine this: the shaft of the screw meets the head, and it is very slightly cut-away, as though recessed for an o-ring to fit above the thread at the base of the screw.

The slot on the head of the screw is cut deep, and right where the slot crosses the shaft of the screw, on either side of the shaft, are 2 small rectangular holes.

This is where the steam is escaping. I've tried an o-ring in there, without success. I also tried filling it with thick CA glue, but I was impatient and didn't give it a day to set up, so its bubbled on me and it again letting steam past.

What I might do is get a small amount of epoxy putty into the slot of the screw and force it into those holes. That ought to plug it up.

It's a very strange set up. My only guess is that the slot of the screw must have been milled too deep.

There is evidence of someone using silicone to try to plug it at some point.

I wonder if the factory washer sealed it initially?

rangerssteamtoys

Permetex sealent might help as well.

IndianaRog

Might be a job for JB Weld...more durable epoxy that might stand up to steam pressure if the screw head were cut too deep. Just give it 24 hours at least to cure.

Mister Occlusion

Gotta be JB

Yeah, that should fill the crack well. And an O-ring will keep it from running down into the threads.

I've been afraid of breaking that screw through tightening it. Been *very* gentle with it thus far

It's by no means a powerful engine, but it sure has a nice audio-visual aspect, which is what turbines are all about anyway.

Empco B35 Turbine - new video

question from a fellow B-35 owner/operator