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Dampfzauberer

Gas burner help! What flame is better?

Maybe a simple question but i don't know!  

Am just about to adjust the gas jet in my burner for my Markie engine.
Now I found a few sorts of flame and wonder what is better?

1)jet half way of the air hole: a short strong flame (blue and orange), where the ceramic part glows red

2)jet pushed more in: a larger flame, all blue and the ceramic part does not glow

Now what's better?
benchmark

from my basic understanding of flame blue should be hotter. it is a clean flame with lots of air. orange flame has lack of air and is burning small particles of carbon from the fuel which gives it an orange colour, this will also soot on your boiler  
Dampfzauberer

Will upload 2 pictures i made!
BK

I'm not up with gas burners as such but would think the blue flame would be better, as orange suggests lack of oxy, which will produce soot.
xlchainsaw

i thought the ceramic part of the burner was supposed to glow???so anything that makes it glow should be right!
BK

Shows how fast I type, the question has been answered and replied to in the time it took me to answer.
Dampfzauberer

benchmark

i will still stick to my blue choice.
BK

Blue.
Dampfzauberer

Interesting....
When the jet is fully pushed in then of course you have the sooty yellow flame...when pulling out you get the blue flame...and the comes the glywing ceramic flame (whilst the middle of the flame gets orange again ???)
Celsius 100

I use the method suggested by BIX for their burners supplied by Forest Classics.
Slide the jet holder into the burner until the flame turns soft and vellow(not enough air).
Slide the jet holder out and the flame should turn blue.
Finely adjust the position until there are small light blue cones just above the surface of the ceramic.This is the optimum position for heat output and economy.
Trust this helps you.
Dampfzauberer

Celsius 100 wrote:
I use the method suggested by BIX for their burners supplied by Forest Classics.
Slide the jet holder into the burner until the flame turns soft and vellow(not enough air).
Slide the jet holder out and the flame should turn blue.
Finely adjust the position until there are small light blue cones just above the surface of the ceramic.This is the optimum position for heat output and economy.
Trust this helps you.


I'll try that!
Thanks!  
xlchainsaw

if its a new burner ...some  of the orange flame could be due to the ceramic insert or it has got "damp" and will improve with use.
Dampfzauberer

xlchainsaw wrote:
if its a new burner ...some  of the orange flame could be due to the ceramic insert or it has got "damp" and will improve with use.


Yes a new one!
Can't say how it is made as the ceramic part is fixed with silicone to the outer part.
logoman

orange - which actually is blue around the edges, the 'orange' flame is illuminated by the ceramic doing it's job.
STEAMPROPULSION

I do not have experience on this matter.
The best solution for a correct answer could be that of putting an oven termometer on the blue and on the orange flame.
This would solve the "vexata quaestio".
Nick

xlchainsaw wrote:
i thought the ceramic part of the burner was supposed to glow???so anything that makes it glow should be right!

You do not want the ceramic to glow. If it is, a white residue will be left on your boiler.

Stick with the blue one Mirko.
Nick

Here you go Mirko, hope this helps:

http://www.mainsteam.co.uk/articles/bix_burners.htm

I have recently been using some "BIX" ceramic gas burners, I have observed a problem with them which is easy to overlook & easy to rectify. If you have a "BIX" gas burner, read the instruction sheet carefully before use.

It is very important to position the gas jet in the right place, if the gas jet is too far out, the burner works well & the ceramic glows bright red, but after a while the burner overheats & this is accompanied by a change in tone to a "roaring" sound. When this happens, the gas is burning inside the burner, which also causes a white residue to form on the base of your steam boiler - this is not good.

The solution is to move the gas jet in a bit & observe blue triangular flames - not an overall red glow. This way, good heat is produced & the burner will work properly without overheating. I have only found this situation when using "Bix" gas burners, but it probably also applies to other types of ceramic gas burners.
Dampfzauberer

This is how it is now.



I must say i don't think this is right now.

The jet is already almost completely pushed in.
Still it makes the ceramic glow.
I guess it has to glow, seen that on many other burners too.

1) burner started
2) low flame
3) high flame

As you can see when the flame is high it burn irregulary  
Celsius 100

I have found that a little ceramic glow is inevitable on all the burners I use and should give no cause for concern.
MooseMan

Yep, orange.....the orange you see is the catalytic conversion of oxygen on the ceramic element, and oxygen burns much hotter than gas. The burner should run a nice mellow orange with blue gas cones just above the surface. If you pull the jet out too far (so you mix in too much air) you'll see that the burner will go a very bright orange, almost yellow - that's too hot. The flame itself should always be blue though - a yellow sooty flame indicates ineffective combustion (not enough air) and one of the byproducts of that is Carbon Monoxide, which is of course very poisonous. Even a small burner can give out harmful amounts....I once ran a burner that was running too rich indoors, and I had a headache and felt nauseous for a couple of days, probably killed a few milion brain cells!
Dampfzauberer

Adjusted now just as the instructions said.
Jet half way.
The burner get's plenty of air now.

This is the flame (very hot now but almost invisible)

Left very low gas               Right turned up gas

ozsteamdemon

A very interesting question this , i gotta say it not something i`ve thought about much , but for me , it depends what load i`m driving , and how hard do i want to push my boiler , so mostly i like max heat .    
MooseMan

That looks perfect to me..... the way I understand catalytic burners like that to work is that the gas oxidizes much quicker because of the very large surface area it is spread out on.....on that last picture I see no gas burning in the air, it all oxidizes on the ceramic surface.
Roly Williams

MooseMan wrote:
Yep, orange.....the orange you see is the catalytic conversion of oxygen on the ceramic element, and oxygen burns much hotter than gas. The burner should run a nice mellow orange with blue gas cones just above the surface. If you pull the jet out too far (so you mix in too much air) you'll see that the burner will go a very bright orange, almost yellow - that's too hot. The flame itself should always be blue though - a yellow sooty flame indicates ineffective combustion (not enough air) and one of the byproducts of that is Carbon Monoxide, which is of course very poisonous. Even a small burner can give out harmful amounts....I once ran a burner that was running too rich indoors, and I had a headache and felt nauseous for a couple of days, probably killed a few milion brain cells!

Oxygen can't burn (burning is, by definition, combining with oxygen), and also, it's an element so it can't be converted to anything (not in a burner, anyway).

My instinct would be to adjust the air so that the flame is just all blue but no further. That's what I remember from my school days with Bunsen burners.
Sandman

That orange ceramic glow is the hottest I can get my gas burner to function.

I set mine up by following the instructions I got from Forest.
Celsius 100

When the hydrocarbon gas is supplied to the burner, oxygen is required for the combustion process and results in the production of carbon dioxide and water as byproducts.The correct ratio of air to hydrocarbon gas is important to ensure complete combustion and prevent carbon monoxide formation.Any oxygen not combining with carbon and hydrogen remains as oxygen.
Blue cones over a glowing ceramic burner indicate an optimum burn.
Dr. Rog

So orange flame is bad -poor combustion.

Orange glow, due to heat,  is good  

?
Dampfzauberer

Dr. Rog wrote:
So orange flame is bad -poor combustion.

Orange glow, due to heat,  is good  

?



I think yes!
The "orange flame" is like lighting a big candle.
Burns with a very visible yellow-orange flame.

The more air the gas gets the bluer the flame gets.

And then the ceramic starts to glow because of the heat.
And that makes the glowy orange middlepart of the blue flame.
(which is not a very visible flame)
Celsius 100

Blue flame and a ceramic glow yields the optimum result based on my own experience.
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