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Kevin Klein

Global warming ?

Alright, whos hogging all the global warming?  Send some of it here, it snowed lastnite, that is wayyyyy too early.
Mark-One

I have pictures of green leaves on the trees and 3 - 4 inches of this white rubbish on the ground

Fortunately it's almost gone now.
johnreid

Global warming refers to the Oceans temperatures, I believe the better wording would be Climate Change. Some areas are getting constantly warmer and others are cooler, but the Ocean is melting the Ice Caps. Science here, not Politics. Some Politicians decided to turn it into a big Political Debate.
Climate Change can be proven with Evidence even more so than Evilution which seems to be another touchy subject.
redryder

johnreid wrote:
Global warming refers to the Oceans temperatures, I believe the better wording would be Climate Change. Some areas are getting constantly warmer and others are cooler, but the Ocean is melting the Ice Caps. Science here, not Politics. Some Politicians decided to turn it into a big Political Debate.
Climate Change can be proven with Evidence even more so than Evilution which seems to be another touchy subject.


Speaking of melting ice caps, didn't some study say that while the Arctic ice is melting the Antarctic ice is on the increase ?
johnreid

There are photos from space that show it happening on both poles, but there are also studies that say it isnt happening, It is just too politicized. To be honest I really do not know why it is so important to some people to cover up the facts, I think there are lots of things that are affecting it, SOME OF WHICH is pollution, some of which is a natural cycle, and some of which is the depletion of the Rain forests.

Maybe both sides are trying so hard to prove something that they exaggerate and thus make both arguments look like folly. That can be said about so many things in the news these days I believe.
Nick

Mark-One wrote:
I have pictures of green leaves on the trees and 3 - 4 inches of this white rubbish on the ground

Fortunately it's almost gone now.

Ours is still here.

I took these pics this morning before work. Just got home and we ended up with about 2-3 inches.



Green leaves and snow:



It was starting to build up on the railing but the driveway was melting as it landed. Later on it started to build up though:



Kevin Klein wrote:
it snowed lastnite, that is wayyyyy too early.


I agree there! I've got lots to do out to my place before we get anymore snow.

We have only picked one field of beans (I hope this wet/heavy snow won't take them down) and we haven't started on corn (we started corn Oct. 7th last year).
redryder

johnreid wrote:
There are photos from space that show it happening on both poles, but there are also studies that say it isnt happening, It is just too politicized. To be honest I really do not know why it is so important to some people to cover up the facts, I think there are lots of things that are affecting it, SOME OF WHICH is pollution, some of which is a natural cycle, and some of which is the depletion of the Rain forests.

Maybe both sides are trying so hard to prove something that they exaggerate and thus make both arguments look like folly. That can be said about so many things in the news these days I believe.


Both sides are trying too hard and the truth likely lies somewhere in the middle and it is difficult to get to with a tug of war on at both extremes. The earth has lasted billions of years and will last billions more with or without humans.

We can try and we will have some successes. Still , mother nature can give us natural events such as Mt St Helens erupting which likely put more toxic waste into the atmosphere in a few hours than all the cars and coal fired power plants combined in a year and there is nothing any of us can do about preventing that sort of an occurence.
Ah Clem

I am personally trying to cause it by burning Esbit, Alcohol, glow fuel, and using smoke fluid in my model trains.

So far, I don't think I am succeeding...
Mark-One

Oh I don't debate the notion of climate change.  I majored in geology and studied some of that during those fun filled years.

I just debate whether *we* are indeed having a measurable (ie catastrophic) influence on an entirely natural process.

Remember that the Earth is a runaway train flying through the cosmos and we're just along for the ride.  It's been doing its thing long before we came along, and it will continue doing it long after its shaken us off, as it has done to many other species many times in the past.

I wonder if it's fear of that fact which causes this control-freak like obsession with mastering every aspect of nature, along with a desire to place simple blames for complex problems in order to gain false comfort from the logical progression that there must, therefore, be a simple solution that we can effect.

ie: Human problems must have human solutions.  Planetary evolution, however, has no solution.


eh..I think I will go have some pie.
verithingeoff

Plenty warm over here, and were still in the middle of spring. Heres a pic of the indoor/outdoor therm, and the sensor is in the shade---
ministeamer

It's pretty warm over here, especially at night. It makes it a pain to get to sleep.
And now, way of topic, a funny quote in reference to driving.
"Ice is killing our kids, so I'm helping melt the polar caps.'
gd9704

Climategate!

The global warming movement is finally being exposed as a fraud.

http://www.climatedepot.com/a/394...Updated-ClimateGate-News-Round-Up
johnreid

OF course the  outfit that puts up that page, an "environmental group that opposes the Sierra Club and WWF", gets most of its funding from EXXON and Chevron.
gd9704

I like Exxon and Chevron.  I'm not a "big oil" hater.  "Big Oil" provides us plentiful, affordable fuel that makes the world go round.  They also provide jobs and dividends to their stockholders.
johnreid

But they are the biggest opponents to Climate Change, just saying that just because it is on the Internet...
Steamfan

"Climate Change"...We get it four times a year in the midwest.
Spring , Summer, Fall, Winter.
Sandman

It all seems so simple to me.

If I were a greedy politician and required a cast iron way of increasing taxes, with plausible reasoning to justify it, what better than to blame global warming??

Sky high fuel prices etc will have no effect on global warming, as we still need to get from A to B. We just pay more for it.

China opens a new coal fired power station every week, and daft politicians want us to use our bikes to go to work in the rain.

Yea, Right.        
johnreid

Sadly this subject gets politicized so easily, There is proof, but there is a lot of money to be made by ignoring it, IMHO there is a lot that has been caused by Mankind and his pollution, and there is a lot that has to do with natural cycles. That isnt an excuse to ignore the harm that is being done as it is only common sense once you see the effects of pollution.


Getting off of the soapbox now, at least very little to none is cause by Esbit and Meths burning in our Steam Sheds
Kevin Klein

The whole global warming / climate change thing is just a big Marxist Socialist scam to control everybody on the planet, especialy the western (free) world.

When the wall came down, it was not symbolic of the end of Communisen but rather the release of it on the rest of the western world. Our curent administration is making some ominous jestures in that direction.

Do'nt get me started!!!
steamgranny

No need to visit any potentially dodgy websites, download all hacked emails & docs directly here & read for self: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=XD050VKY
(East Anglia Uni. confirms they are indeed their mails & docs. Just says they are being misinterpreted)
This scam was going to make billions for the select few in carbon taxes, carbon credits etc. (& probably still will…Ours are due to begin in Jan )
Anyone as old as I can still remember what we were taught in school – The medieval warm period, the Vikings farming Greenland, vineyards in northern UK, then the little ice age & a frozen Thames, even the Bosphorus!. Accompanied by the pretty little graphs of up & down temperature cycles, even at a time when no humans could have influenced anything & present cycle was taking us into the next ice age.….
Even these ‘pranksters’ had to change ‘Man made global warming’ into ‘climate change’ for it to wash & yes, that’s what the climate does…..change…..all the time.
I hear mad fools speaking of blasting millions of tons of sulphur into the atmosphere to create a sun block, or other equally dangerous & stupendously expensive ideas & cringe. All life forms on this planet are carbon based. Carbon is our life force not some dreaded poison.
And none of that to be confused with localised pollution that needs cleaning up ASAP.
Rant over but this sort of nonsense does annoy me… As you may have noticed!
Kevin Klein

"THEY" do'nt want you to know that stuff. It seems that that the smarter we get, the more stupid we get as well, as far as common sence is concerned.  What happened to the global cooling scare in the 80's? I guess some one figured out the solar cycle was about to go the warm way for a decade or so and changed thier thermic tune.   Like you said Steam Granny, we have forgotten what was taught and is no longer beeing taught, carbon makes the world go 'round.  No carbon, no plant life, no oxygen, or atleast less of it.
Just because a guy with a Phd and a few other letters befor his or her name, says it is so does not necesaraly mean it is so. They are susseptable to beeing swayed one way or the other just like anybodt else, depending on how much is offered them in return for thier services. Yes, that can go both ways, but damning evidence is damning evidence and those with a thinking autonomous mind do'nt need others evidence to figure it out.  
Now, I must go release some methane in jubilation.  Carbon buttprint?

Ohhhh Geeez... I got started.
Wallace

Kevin Klein wrote:
"THEY" do'nt want you to know that stuff. It seems that that the smarter we get, the more stupid we get as well, as far as common sence is concerned.  What happened to the global cooling scare in the 80's? I guess some one figured out the solar cycle was about to go the warm way for a decade or so and changed thier thermic tune.   Like you said Steam Granny, we have forgotten what was taught and is no longer beeing taught, carbon makes the world go 'round.  No carbon, no plant life, no oxygen, or atleast less of it.
Just because a guy with a Phd and a few other letters befor his or her name, says it is so does not necesaraly mean it is so. They are susseptable to beeing swayed one way or the other just like anybodt else, depending on how much is offered them in return for thier services. Yes, that can go both ways, but damning evidence is damning evidence and those with a thinking autonomous mind do'nt need others evidence to figure it out.  
Now, I must go release some methane in jubilation.  Carbon buttprint?

Ohhhh Geeez... I got started.


That was brilliant. Very well said  
alan2525

johnreid wrote:
Sadly this subject gets politicized so easily, There is proof, but there is a lot of money to be made by ignoring it, IMHO there is a lot that has been caused by Mankind and his pollution, and there is a lot that has to do with natural cycles. That isnt an excuse to ignore the harm that is being done as it is only common sense once you see the effects of pollution.


Getting off of the soapbox now, at least very little to none is cause by Esbit and Meths burning in our Steam Sheds


The problem with burning fossil fuels is the sudden release of the carbon that has been stored for millions of years, really that carbon should have been released into the atmosphere very gradually. Those are all finite resources, when we run out the problem will tend to level off, if we require alternative fuels, bio diesels etc, as those resources will be harvested they will be to a certain extent carbon neutral. The main problem then will be the detriment to wildlife habitat from requiring huge areas of land to grow monocultures of oil seed rape etc.

In the meantime I'll continue to burn as much Meths and Butane as I can to keep my engines in steam!
Atticman

I still think a far bigger worry is resouce usage- I gather that weve used up about 25% of the worlds copper reserves, and anyone that goes past a municipal tip can see all sorts of copper stuff that gets thoughtlessly chucked out. Same for so much metals. Oil is also of course a resource that will run out. And look at the electricals- al the VCRs now nearly junk- and how much of that will all be reused?

As for plastics, well its just totally mad whats chucked, and most shouldnt be used in the first place- completely unsustainable. THATs what the politicians should be sorting out- reuse and not constant growth- thats a recipe for disaster
Nick

Atticman wrote:
I still think a far bigger worry is resouce usage- I gather that weve used up about 25% of the worlds copper reserves, and anyone that goes past a municipal tip can see all sorts of copper stuff that gets thoughtlessly chucked out. Same for so much metals.

I can not believe the number of soda/pop cans that end up in the garbage. Do people not realize how much money they can get for them?

I put a seperate garbage can at work and I take home everyone else's cans and make a few hundered dollars per year off that. Sure it's a little extra work and garbage ends up in there every once in awhile, but it's definately worth doing.
johnreid

The problem is there, and not a socialist plot, however it is a problem that will most probably be a much bigger problem for generations to come if we just ignore it. I also agree that depletion of resources is a major problem. I will post no more in this thread as I do see politics coming into the subject and all that happens then is oll feelings over something that has nothing to do with Steam Toys,
Friends can disagree and still be friends.
madeinenglang

Steve_S

johnreid wrote:
The problem is there, and not a socialist plot, however it is a problem that will most probably be a much bigger problem for generations to come if we just ignore it. I also agree that depletion of resources is a major problem. I will post no more in this thread as I do see politics coming into the subject and all that happens then is oll feelings over something that has nothing to do with Steam Toys,
Friends can disagree and still be friends.


Precisely... in all aspects.
redryder

I am a bit late catching up on this but it seems the evidence uncovered over the last several weeks have revealed a conspiracy of sorts among a big part of the scientific environmentalist community to suppress anyone who wanted to publish contradictory material to what the Al Gore crowd was looking for. If there is a shred of truth to any of it (the info from conspiring contributors) it is a real shame as the whole argument is now pretty much toast. If they abused the system, this is precisely what they deserve.

The same groups are already test marketing the next catastrophe they are going to latch on to with a vengeance. The may even have a more valid point here as they are going after plastics. They will shift all focus off global warming, drop it like a hot potato while never admitting their fraudulent mistake, and go after plastic. It actually makes more sense as it is very useful to re-use plastic as opposed to dumping it. Awareness here could be very useful.

Unfortunately there will always be a vocal minority who believe that you have too much, you want to much, and you use too much. They will work hard to get a large main stream following and if they all have their way you won't be able to get too much of anything. Some may think I have too many steam engines but I don't think so. It is my choice. It's a good thing our hobby isn't hugely popular because if it was, someone might try to shut it down.

Finally, it appears cap and trade, regarding carbon in the USA is a dead issue and will not likely pass into law anytime at least in the next year or two. I see this as a good thing as it would do little or nothing to change our carbon footprint (even if we needed to which it seems may be a non-issue). Allowing outfits to purchase clean air credits is a bizzar notion at best.  Can a killer buy bullet credits or lost life credits and remain innocent? Can a bad student buy good grades credits and not flunk what they just flunked? Can experienced women go out and buy virginity credits? and remain a virgin on paper?
I think not.
IndianaRog

Gil, you have captured the essence of this whole argument.  Well articulated sir!
redryder

IndianaRog wrote:
Gil, you have captured the essence of this whole argument.  Well articulated sir!



Thank you very much !

Gil
redryder

Also somewhat frightening is how far this warming crowd went to convince people of the fabrication. Our former vice president Al Gore made a so called documentary based on this fabrication. This is not a great position for a man who might have been our president. The power of focused bullshit was so effective this time around that before it was revealed as a fraud or fabrication, there were many members of opposing groups caving in and saying publicly that we have this problem and it is real.......
Or so they were led to believe. All who fell for it must be feeling quite well duped.
Kevin Klein

Gil
I really like the analogy to buying credits, that is logic at its best.
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