How about venting exhaust steam to a vertical's chimney?

Reid · How about venting exhaust steam to a vertical's chimney?

I think and hope it can be done. I have zero practical experience, though.

Wilesco D45 series...

Thought: like James with his D22 horizontal, I'd like to put the steam into the chimney.
But of a vertical? An engine I don't even have yet?

I've been thinking to baffle, to prevent the otherwise sure (?) drip of water and oil into the fire below if no baffling is done
(such as when the cylinder spits out prime water).

One thought most hot in my mind: put strip of thin gauge copper strip into the boiler flue, nice and tight, and then twist it into a helix of one or two turns.

Do the same with the chimney itself. Inject the exhaust into the chimney near its top.

The two helixes in series may be enough *if well fitted* to perfectly catch and evaporate all condensate spit,
as well as to carbonize the oil mist long before any can get to the fire directly below.

The hope too is that the upper (chimney) helix does all the water evaporation work.
And the helix in the boiler is there for insurance, and to get the oil burned.
And too, these helixes will slow down the rate of combustion exhaust;
I don't know whether this will help thermal efficiency, by affording the hot gases a bit more of dwell time,
and too, by turbulence, help transfer a bit more heat though the flue tube, into the boiler water.

That is the plan. Should I give it a twirl?

Practice will teach me a great deal more than this pre-engine-arrival brainstorming.

I want an exhaust and drip-free engine with nice smells of very hot oil

Mister Occlusion

Haven't tried burning steam oil myself. I know that sitting in my separator it tends to end up looking like gelled fat floating on soup after everything has cooled down. As I understand it there is an animal component to these oils.

Once it's good and hot the D455 will exhaust mostly steam, with drops of water every few seconds. Starting up, though, it's going to eject a significant amount of water, along with most of the oil that you dumped into the lubricator, so it might still be a good idea to channel it to an external trap for the first few minutes when you start up, else you may very well see if Solid Fuel Tablets Explode

It's an interesting idea, though.

If I ever mod mine I'd probably try dropping a loop of steam line down the stack. I imagine the D455 would give about the best possible superheating effect that one would ever achieve with a toy engine, with the nice long hot flue.

Glad to see someone else entering the ranks of the mad modders. Devoted to Science first, and aesthetics...mmmm..maybe later, if it works.

johnreid

Mister Occlusion

Just so long as it furthers the knowledge base in the areas of

"What Is Neat"

"What Is Neat And Actually Works"

"What Is Neat But Probably Is Not A Good Idea"

"What Seemed Neat At The Time But Doesn't %^*$& Work"

"What Is Neat But Apparently Cannot Be Achieved Without Some Talent With Tools"

I'll feel pleased and justified

I'm trying to stay away from "What Is Bloody Dangerous" these days..

Been there, Done that
In Bruises, Burns, and Brown Trousers
Have I paid my dues

MooseMan

You won't know until you try....worth a go.

One thing.....you might consider running your vertical on a meths burner rather than solid fuel.....it'll run much better, and olid fuel has a nasty habit of shattering if water hits it.

If you carefully remove the burner cradle a standard mamod vap burner fits perfectly....that's what I run mine on anyway.

Reid

Yay yah, agreed, this is liable to lead to frustration and great risk--
and I would not dare to do it over solid tabs, nor gelled alcohol.

At best it's silly 'cos there will be smoke enough if I Esbit.

At worst it's it's Courting Mayhem

ahem.
I married adventure a long time ago, and still have nine fingers and seven point five toes.

---
I tend to talk more than I do these days, so that's a plus and a laugh;
no worries if it remains a dream-state modification.

Reid

I can understand the occasional mal-description of technical stuff,
but when it comes from the manufacturer's site, well, hell.

Have bolded below the red herring. At the time I ordered I really
believed it put steam to the chimney:

Mister Occlusion

IndianaRog uses a Bowman burner in his, and I've got a smaller Forest Classics meths burner for mine, both of which can be used without removing the original fuel tray (if you want to keep your Esbit options open for now.

The one advantage of Esbit is, at least in my case, it gives a much longer run time.

I still need to come up with a good homebuilt burner for all of my models. I'm thinking of a modular system based on the chicken feed... I have to work the gotchas out of it, though, before it's both safe and reliable...

toxx

... h'llo, Reid! I agree with Mr O, 4 tablets of Esbit make my D455 run for 20 minutes. I bought a meths burner for her, though, will see how long she runs with about 15ml meths. I like your idea on channeling the exhaust to the chimney! I've been toying with an evaporator of Mr O's design. The D455 or D45 spit a lot of muck about. Please keep us posted on your progress!
Cheers, mate!

and

toxx

... have to add something: It's amazing how small an amount water she steams off with 4 Esbit's in 20 minutes. I just had her running, boiler half-filled with near-boiling water before firing. 1/2 boiler is approx. 250ccm water. After empyting her boiler: 180ccm!
Bello e incredibile!

Reid

Tom, I love it when you speak Italian.

YES we are having a lot of fun, even just thinking of what to do next.

The Helix

At first I thought: a wad of copper wool, or maybe stainless.
Nah, that would ruin the draft.

On the other hand, a twisted strip of sheet copper
(cos aluminum might melt),
Just a couple turns, in the boiler flue, may, by the turbulence added,
give a bit more heat over to the water
without creating undue restriction.

PLUS, maybe the stack would give off nice smoke/steam swirls!

---Thinking out loud now and knowing that

...Tom is well set-up to try the first 455 swirler/water catcher and evaporator. Tom or someone try this please, if it appeals in principle or spirit?

I would try it this way: cut a strip of copper, giving it just a bit of bow, and PULL it straight through the boiler flue,
and then spring it quite snug and tight to the flue's ID.
And then working from the bottom, begin twisting the helix,
just one or two turns or so, as may be done.

And then do the same to the smokestack; for that's where we most want to flash off the condensate, where the waste heat has nothing better to do.

I don't know but that we might also again a bit of forced draft,
sort of like in the big engines--albeit the injection point is not so ideal
(Am not sure where I'd inject the exhaust into the stack--in the middle, perhaps).

Puff and chuff, that's all I do.

Reid

MooseMan

Well if you court mayhem while still married to adventure you're likely to lose the odd digit

Sounds like a plan though...of course an added advantage of using a meths burner is that it doesn't smell of satan's fiery farts like esbit - esbit doesn't smoke much, it just burns and stinks.

Maybe, just maybe....a copper mesh in the flue might be enough to catch any drops of water and oil and quickly evaporate it. As Tom states, the D45 is a pretty effective engine, but it will fill up its little condensate tray, so there is some water to be disposed of.

Mister Occlusion

Okay, my interest is piqued.

I'd say for a test run, get some K&S brass to shove down the stack and a bit of silicone hose to connect it up to the exhaust. If it works well you'd probably want to permanently shorten and divert the stock exhaust pipe (shorter pipe = less condensing going on within)

Unfortunately I still have my supersecret project to hopefully complete this week, plus I have to fix my Jensen 75 up again before I lose interest in it.

And I'm honestly considering giving my model 25 a nice wood base, like John has done with his. That shiny thick flywheel just doesn't look right on a pressed metal base.... I'd probably remove the guv'nor at the same time.

toxx

johnreid

If you court mayhem while still married to adventure, is mayhem your Mistress?

toxx

"Si vis pacem, para bellum", as I say on a sunny day.

Reid