| Archive for The Unofficial Mamod and Other Steam Forum The Original Unofficial Toy Steam Forum Established 2006 The biggest, most popular steam forum around! Accept NO imitations! We have a growing community of regular posting members who chat about all aspects of toy and model steam. |
| toxx |
How do I make SE3 "Wet Molly" dribble less?-Pg 6H'llo, lads! A few small toucher-ups still to be done (stack's gut painted red, red handle on overflow-plug, Mamod decal), otherwise I'm ready for take off (not literally, please! The boiler's got Zinkpest )
This is my first Mamod resto. Can you Mamod pros detect any flaws? I hope I got the drive rods in the correct position: 
I repainted the base wine red, 'cause I'm not too fond of the original signal red. Or, to tell the truth a spare a lie, I had half a can wine red left and wanted to use it. Bloody hellish expensive stuff. The fire box got the same black VHT paint as the #85. I also used the new, beautiful flywheel I got off ebay. Since it's larger than the Mamod one, I had to enlarge the opening in the base. Tomorrow's the big day! We'll see if the boiler holds up. If not, Simon will sell me his - I'm a bit on dire streets at 'da moment. Whaddaya buoys and gulls say 'ta dis? 
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| IndianaRog |
Tom, it looks great to me...love that new flywheel, it really stands out. You DO have the cranks properly positioned, 180 deg. apart or even a few degrees one way or the other for optimum results.
Nothing wrong with that wine red, looks fine to me as does your VHT on the firebox. Fire it up and lets see it in actions. Rog |
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| johnreid |
It sure looks nice to me. | ||||
| Mamodman123 |
Looks great now lets see it go with that nice flywheel 
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| tmuir |
Looks good and I like the flywheel.
One tip I will give you is if you use the original burner watch out as the meths flames will wrap around the boiler and be near invisible until you try and touch the regulator lever which is usually surrounded with flames. At that point most people usually shout out their favourite four letter words and go look for a pair of pliers or leather gloves. 
The Se3 is the only Mamod stationary that is a keeper in my collection, they go like mad once run in and are great fun. |
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| Stilldrillin |
There`s nowt wrong wi that one lad.......
Blummin well done! 
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| Lewis |
looks good mate
Just needs a decal and it will be complete
did you have the original flywheel ? |
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| Nick |
I agree with what everyone else has said, but we could use a "before" photo.
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| toxx |
... thanks! I'll be using my standard meths burner, not the original. But I'll be careful and wear a leather glove!
@Lewis: I've got the original flywheel - it's perfect, but I wanted to use the new one, whose size is more apealing to me.
@Nick: Sorry, no pix of the original condition it was in - only the dezinc-fotos. The machine was covered in soot, dead bugs and crud on the insides, almost all paint on the firebox burnt off, baseplate badly charred: 
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| Sandman |
Just love that chunky flywheel Tom.
As good as a brand new engine mate. I like the wine coloured base as well. Great job. |
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| toxx |
... thanks, Sandy!
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| Minor1PJG |
Looks great. I agree with Rog - have you got the 'timing' right on it??
Good work
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| Steve_S |
It looks very good. I like that flywheel too! | ||||
| steamgranny |
I say that looks like a mighty fine engine
Very smart livery & flywheel is gorgeous. Looking forward to its maiden run after resto & hope that end cap holds........... 
A lovely job
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| bessytractor |
looks up to task to me, and that flywheel, STREWTH 
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| Wallace |
That looks great Toxx. Very nice job 
The flywheel really sets it off nicely, and that base is a real nice colour. Good luck with it
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| MTA |
I think the colour on the base sets it off really nicely Tom
I also like the flywheel
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| toxx |
... well, the first 2 runs were disappointing. The drive rods seem to be ill-fitting in the cylinders and only move sluggishly, creating a screeching sound. I took them apart again, checked, re-checked and thrice checked for any damage, scratches or shards of foreign matter- nothing. Clean as a whistle. Oiled with Mamod oil. Changed left for right cylinder, swapped drive rods - no change. The pistons move freely only to get stuck at certain spot. Steam can't cope with this friction - the engine hardly gets going and stops by itself after a while. I put the original flywheel back on - with even worse results. The larger mass of the new wheel kept it at least a bit in motion.
Otherwise everything fine - boiler sound, everything steamtight. Oh, well. I knew why I never trusted Mamod!
I'll pitch it back on ebay, I guess, and file the whole story under bad expierience. 
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| Mamodman123 |
Can't say ive ever had or heard a screetching noise from a mamod
Well you've done all you can, put it on ebay and let the "nightmare" end  . Thats what ive done to one of my plastic Wilescos 
Of course its all mamods fault, something they made 50 years ago thats been neglected and left to rust...yup their fault totally
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| toxx |
... of course it's all Mamod's fault! I gotta blame somebody (never myself - I'm Austrian! We don't do that ... )!
Since I've cooled down and blown off steam, what can I do to remedy the thing? Imagine rotating the flywheel - then comes a stubborn resistance. But there's nofink to be seen when you take it apart and check. |
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| Mamodman123 |
Are the con rods straight?
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| Nick |
Is the piston tight in the cylinder?
Once my Jensen 76 froze up completely. The piston was stuck tight in the cylinder and I could barely get it back out. I haven't had problems with it since then.
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| toxx |
... they're perfetto. It sounds like fingernails scrathcing over a blackboard when it get to that certain spot - both cylinders. A strong friction/ rubbing. Steam pressure (the boiler is sound as a bell!) can't get over it. Nothing in the cylinder. Nothing to tight or loose. Good oil applied - not too much.
Hence my frustrated post I'm still a Mamod afficionado, mate. I just had to kick out at somefink ...
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| Dampfzauberer |
Hmm..maybe you should try out taking one cylinder off and let the first run alone and then do the opposite....? |
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| Mamodman123 |
Sounds like its just a case of its been standing for years and something has corroded inside the cylinder, just keep running it maybe with a little bit of liquid brasso in each cylinder to remove the tight spots if its that bad. I would remove both cylinders and by hand with some brasso smooth them out, if it goes in and out smoothly then the problem lies elswhere |
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| toxx |
... no, Nick. They move freely until a certain position, then rub. There's no effing reason or thing I can see why this happens. Everything moves freely, nothing is too tight, no oil is gummed up. No foreign matter in the cylinders ... |
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| johnreid |
The voice of wisdom, I would try one cylinder at a time too. |
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| toxx |
... did that, Mirko! And was scorched by the open cylinder to my pain. Both cylinders expierience the same problem at one point of their movement.
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| Sandman |
Don't want to state the obvious, but have you tried swapping the pistons Tom??
Sorry Tom. I see you've tried that. 
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| Dampfzauberer |
That was fast...
http://cgi.ebay.de/Mamod-SE3-Stea...PageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
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| toxx |
... yip, I take no prisoners. Never have, never will. 
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| Mamodman123 |
oh well
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| Atticman |
All sounds very odd Tom, its not the flywheel/ s rubbing against the base is it? Will the fly rotate round smoothly when disconnected from the 2 pistons?
My dented SE3 made a terrible noise and it was the fly rubbing on the dented/ twisted base 
Hope the next owner sorts it if you dont
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| Les Marsh |
Have you tried turning the pistons upside down as sometimes they wear in a particular way and will only run that way when re-assembled. | ||||
| Mamodman123 |
You should never let your temper get the better of you, you need to be patient to get things working properly
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| toxx |
... thanks to Mirko (okay, mate, but you could've told me ), it's en publique, that I'm gonna sell it.
One week to see if I can mend the machine - with your tips and hints. S'il vous plais. I can end the auction whenever I like, should die Göttin der Feinmechanik somehow touch my brow |
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| toxx |
... I will try to keep that in mind.
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| H2o vapour |
SORRY,
I KNOW YOU WILL NOT THINK THIS, BUT THIS IS A BRILLIANT THREAD!! IT'S NO GOOD WE WILL HAVE TO HAVE A CONVENTION TO GET THIS SORTED!! I have 3 se3's and they are all great, run really well. I bought one some time ago and like you was disappointed. The engine side of things seamed ok , ran ultra smooth, the problem was in the steam line and and steam cock on the boiler. Once the restriction was clear went well. Couple of thoughts 1, Are the ports lining up and clean and clear. 2, I know there's steam, but how much? 3, what is the timing like, I play about with my se3 engines to get them to run as I require? KEEP TRYING - DON'T GIVE UP H20 |
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| flywheel61 |
That's a grest pity Tom, and you spent so much time on it as well,  .
Cheers
Chris |
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| H2o vapour |
Hi,
Is the steam able to exhaust ok? H20 |
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| MooseMan |
Tom, is it actually the cylinders that are binding? You must have had the flywheel off....did you leave some free play at the bearing points when you put it back on? Metal gets hot, expands, and what was a good fit suddenly binds....slacken off the cranks a bit, leave 1/4 of a mill free play and see what happens.....
Also, Mamod steam oil's useless....get some proper compound stuff. Failing that, clean engine oil. |
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| tmuir |
One last thing to check, are the engine mounting brackets in line with each other and parallel? If they are out by a couple of mm that could be pulling the piton side ways in the cylinder and making it bind. | ||||
| oldstuff |
Oil and pull pistons in and out using your fingers. Do they still bind? If so, worst case is tweaked cylinders but unlikely that both are. It may need running in, just keep running it... If they pull in and out fine by hand, then we can rule out pistons and cylinders. This is solveable. Sometimes the problem is the trunion is too loose or too tight. The trunion spring may be weak and need replacing. If not tight enough, steam pressure can push the block away from the portface causing a piston to jamb up. It could also be a rough edge or burr on the portface. If it's not the trunion and you're certain the pistons are simply too tight, you can pop them in a drill and spin them in some fine sandpaper, 600 or 800 grit, but you sure don't want to overdo it here. At first, just work on the front and rear edges...do very little at a time, frequently stopping to test. |
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| Stilldrillin |
Tom,
I found it deeply frustrating that my 3cyl wouldn`t run properly. The No1 cyl screeched as yours does. I realised it didn`t like filling to the level plug, excess water seemed to wash the oil out. Boiler total volume 320cc. Volume to level plug 250cc. I filled with 160cc to give largest surface area. About 1/3 the way down the page.... http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org...sc&highlight=se3&start=90 It worked for me!
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| Wallace |
Hi Tom.
Sorry to hear of your troubles. While I have never had a mamod "screech" so to sepak, I've had some  moments.
One was a MM2 with the same problem as Stilldrillin said above (overfilling). So bad that even when the water level dropped, the cylinder was still primed and it refused to run at all, until it was cleared. ANother prob was a SE3. So far from what I have seen on these forums mine has been the only engine that failed to run at all with the cranks perfectly offset at 180degres. It just wouldn't move. Mine has to be a fair bit off 180degrees, not "just" off. I would suggest as Les said, turning the pistons upside down. Like a car I always mark my pistons when dismantling as they create a mate over time. Try every possible piston/cylinder combo If you have a air compressor that will be handy too, while trying all suggestions rather than having to fire the engine each time you make a change. I know the frustration you are having though. Had an SP5 once that just totally refused to run
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| Stilldrillin |
Tom.
I`ts a WONDERFULL feeling when it all comes together.
Almost worth all the frustration.........
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| toxx |
... oi, mates! I took the pistons out, cleaned them and carefully sanded them with 800 paper lathed in oil. The inner cylinder now moves 95,3% okay, whilst the outer one still "screeches" at one certain spot. But it's over all better! I'd say 84.3%.
So I'll fire her up again tomorrow and see what happens ... wish I had a compressor!
Thanks for all your hints and comments, lads! I will use them all and check the blasted thing step by step. I used 2 of Reid's special cloth washers as buffers for the flywheel. Now, that's one hell of a washer, especially when oil-drenched! It nullifys friction between flywheel and flywheel axle housing frame.
Looks good, too! |
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| Nick |
The ebay listing has ended.
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| Les Marsh |
Glad to hear that Toxx and fingers crossed that you get it sorted out.
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| johnreid |
The ones that take effort are appreciated the most as time goes by. | ||||
| toxx |
... yip, Nick! I wanna make 'dis baby ruuun ...
I give up at things prematurelly, occasionally. Like when I started out as a brain surgeon - didn't like it, so I went back to washing cars ... |
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| johnreid |
I think that is why my Lobotomy never took
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| toxx |
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| oldstuff |
Good deal, toxx! | ||||
| tmuir |
Glad you are giving it another go.
I have run my engines before on a bike pump. I have the one that stands upright and you put your feet on the base and push down with both hands. It has a lever that locks it onto the valve. All I did to use it on my engines is put a brass pipe in the end and lock it in place with the lever and slid some silicon hose over the pipe and because it was a couple of mm larger than the hole for the safety valve I just managed to wind it into the hole and it stayed there. Just be careful as its very easy to get the boiler up to 30 or 40 PSI which is 2 to 3 times over its regular working pressure. |
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| toxx |
... well, folks: Ich bin mit meinem Latein am Ende. I tried out ever one of your kind tips&hints. Last evening, I carefully sanded the pistons with grade 800 and fine oil. Everything worked alomost normally; the "screeching" was gone, with a fling of the flywheel it would turn about 5 or six times. Fair enough.
I fired her up today with exactly 165ccm water. She spat a great deal of water out the exhausts (this's one messy engine!), then ran beautifully - for about a minute. She then slowed down and stopped. Fire was burning merrily, lots of steam. I closed the valve, let more pressure build up; she ran sluggishly for about 30 seconds and ground to a screeching halt. So I re-oiled carefully, let her twirl again. She started up fast, but after 20 seconds grumbled to a halt - pistons almost frozen solid, water and oil everywhere. A mystery - and my patience and enthusiasm with this one declines again rapidly ...
Edit: The machine is now cold. The flywheel turns again freely, the pistons are almost back to their condition as of yesterdy evening. WTF? Lads, can this be a pure lubrication folly? I've used: Mamod oil, Jensen oil, Wilesco oil and "household oil", a rather thinn stuff. What I haven't used yet: "Hobby grease" by Tamiya, used for r/c cars. |
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| tmuir |
My Se3 doesn't need much oil so doubt it is that but it does sound like when the cylinder and pistons get hot they are expanding and stopping it.
My ran average for the first two runs as when I got mine the pistons were seized but after two ro three runs the rough spots smoothed themselves out and it now runs great. Down sand the pistons anymore as they are obviously clean but if you shine a torch inside the cylinders can you see any dirt, gunk, corrosion in them that may be causing you the problem? |
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| toxx |
... both cylinders are clean as a whistle. I can "drop" the pistons in - no hitch. Both get their decent share of steam ...
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| Les Marsh |
Are the exhaust pipes clear?? | ||||
| tmuir |
hmmm odd. Have you tried using a smaller burner to lower the heat a bit? Don't give up though as your nearly there and once sorted SE3s are great runners. |
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| Nick |
I hope it doesn't go back to ebay.
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| toxx |
... as far as I can tell, yes. They both spit nicely into the reservoir under the chimney. As for a smaller burner: My motto is, the more steam, the better.
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| Mamodman123 |
Use the original burner and keep firing it till it frees up! | ||||
| Stilldrillin |
It should run very well on 1 cylinder only. Opposing piston removed. Cylinder central position.
Try one side at a time....... |
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| toxx |
... I think I've reason to be optimistic!!! Couldn't wait till tomorrow to prove the right or wrong of my theory, so I fired her up again an hour ago. This time using silicone-based grease used on r/c cars. Same effect: The machine will sluggishly run, then the pistons would freeze to a screeching stand still.
I removed the pistons. Swabbed the cylinders out. Dried the pistons, cleaned them of all traces of oil and grease again (machine still a huffin' and a puffin'). Inserted Wilesco oil generously into the cylinder and the oiling ports on the steam chests. Put everything back together, gave it a twirl ... ... and she ran flawlessly for 25 minutes!!! Hooray, hooray, we bring the Jubiliee!!!
It seems: The SE3 needs (at this stage of running in) a LOT of steam, on an only half-full boiler. Good heat resistant steam oil (Wilesco it will stay now, the other brands, Mamod and Jensen weren't very good, neither the 'household-oil' and the Tamiya grease) and a lot of patience plus the advice of all of you friends who gave me the good tips and info! Thanks, mates!
I'm gonna try and make her run full blast every day now. I don't dare to use the throttle for a ticking-over yet. I will as of now leave the constellation of the pistons and cylinders well alone! Cheers, mate! Says a happy old Tom
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| johnreid |
Good to hear you got it running, I bet that once it has been run in some that it will perform well. | ||||
| steamyjim |
Good new Tom! | ||||
| Mamodman123 |
What a relief Tom
Glad you got it working in the end. They are brilliant runners once you get them set right! |
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| MooseMan |
Hurray for persistence!!!!
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| Sandman |
Well done Tom.
I knew you could do it.
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| toxx |
... thanks, Sandy!
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| Les Marsh |
Well done, I am glad you persevered with it and got it running.
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| Minor1PJG |
You knew they were coming
Well done |
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| Mamodman123 |
Success!
video please
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| tmuir |
Glad you got it sorted, they are great engines as you will now find out. | ||||
| Stilldrillin |
YEEE HAARR! 
It will now continue as though nothing ever was wrong....... They`re only human you know! 
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| toxx |
... yo, mates! Second test, same as the rest! SE3 has passed her second run, as was christianed Wet Molly, since she dribbles all over the place.
I tried her at full speed, and let her "crawl". All works satisfactorily, the big flywheel gives her extra momentum at low speeds. The clue to the riddle was: Oil, black gold, Kuwait 'K'. It seems, when I tried out all the oils I have, I left remains of the 'household oil' in the cylinders, which didn't work at high temps, but gummed up. Thus halting everything. The no-go was my fault all along - something we all guessed.
Nevertheless - Wet Molly is one fine machine! Next steps will be: A new decal, and a heavy wooden base. I've no video camera! So I took a pix of Molly with 1/4 sec.: 
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| Sandman |
Molly Rocks and no mistake.
Well done Tom. Looking good and running great. Just what we all expected from you.
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| Nick |
So, is this a keeper then?
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| Stilldrillin |
Wet Molly!!
Very apt... I love that name!
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| johnreid |
Good Golly Miss Molly | ||||
| steamyjim |
Very nice Tom!!! | ||||
| Les Marsh |
You can Mollycoddle it now then.
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| Minor1PJG |
Great to see. Good work Tom
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| Wallace |
Great name for her Tom
Really please to hear that it's running well now. |
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| Wallace |
Great name for her Tom
Really please to hear that it's running well now. |
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| toxx |
... thanks, mate! She especially dribbles from the chimney down into the fire box as soon as a certain amount of exhaust water accumulates there. Is there a decent way of stopping the leak of that spot? Perhaps silicone around the joint where the stack attaches to its base?
The other water is okay; oscillators do spit around.
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| johnreid |
The Chimney of my SE1A and my SE2 both spew lots of water from the chimney. It even bubbles over the top. I think that is just the nature of the beast. You might put a bit of sponge in the chimney, but not too big a piece, let me know if it works as I might try it then.
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| steamyjim |
What about a peice of copper pipe leading from the base of the chimney to a tank? | ||||
| toxx |
... that wouldn't stop it from leaking there.
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| steamyjim |
It would drain the build up of water though
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| johnreid |
I think the removable sponge might just be a good idea. I am not in the position to steam mine for a while so I cant try it, but do plan on dong so. I would make the sponge so it could be removed when the engine is not in use. | ||||
| Les Marsh |
Use some silicon tubing from your exhausts and run them to a second engine and run that as well.
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| tmuir |
I don't get much dribbles from mine but I use the original extra long burner with mine and pretty much the whole boiler is surrounded by a fire ball during the run so I guess my steam is just that bit hotter so it doesn't have much condensation in the chimney.
I guess one option is to remove the chimney before a run that way the water will get shot else were and not run back into the burner. Its a possible solution although a messy one.
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| Stilldrillin |
Tom.
A piece of 22mm copper pipe is a nice fit into the condensate collector. Try 2/3rds the height of the chimney, all silicone sealed at the bottom? Might be what you need. http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/about8491 |
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| mc_mc |
How did I miss this thread? It didn't highlight itself as unread at all for some reason.
Anyway it was good to read about your problems and even better to hear that you've solved them. I'm glad the boiler seems to be holding up okay. My SE3 is one of the engines I run the most, provides the most power for experimenting with. I also like the fact that it's quick and easy to fill with water because of the large SV port and it's got oil ports for quick and easy lubrication (I'm just using heavy car oil on mine seems to do the job nicely). The wooden base sounds interesting, not seen one of those on a SE3 before. |
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| Stilldrillin |
Hmmm.... I`ve had the same problem, several times, also post does not exist!
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| mc_mc |
It didn't even re-highlight when you replied to my post. You can easily miss some great stuff when this happens. | ||||
| toxx |
... thanks, I'll try that out! Just came back from 'Obi', a DIY store, laden with wood for the baseplates of SE3 and #85, silicone, scews and lots of other bric a brac. 32 Euros!
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