Identity unknown ??

Cranko · Identity unknown ??

Can anybody help with the ID of this engine I recently purchased. It has a very unusual flywheel design which may or may not be original.

rangerssteamtoys

I'm thinking fleschimann? Not sure

compare to this http://www.crabfu.com/steamtoys/steam_mini_4x4/

johnreid

Here is a Fleischmann 105/1

There are similarities, and differences too. Looks close

Photo is from this page
http://www.ca-si.net/fleischmann/...chinen/Ubersicht/105_1/105_1.html

Cranko

Well it could be Fleischmann but the wooden base which looks original makes me wonder

johnreid

To be honest I dont think it is a Fleischmann. The opening in the firebox is different too. Similar design, but arent many verticals though?

Les

I have a Fleischmann 105/1 and it is not one of those.
It looks very similar to a Bing or Doll but I am not sure.

xlchainsaw

i doubt if the base is original

Roly Williams

The only similar engine I can find in the two Bing catalogues I have is the 8240 & 8242 in the 1906 catalogue. This is similar but not quite the same. The top half is very similar but the firebox is much bigger. It's the only one with the crankshaft going through the boiler and nothing like it appears in the 1912-15 catalogue. I'm guessing they quickly abandoned the idea. Yours could be a pre-1906 version.

Dampfzauberer

is is a very old 1900 Carette engine

Roly Williams

johnreid

Mirko is da Man

Dampfzauberer

Sorry was in a rush

That's why the answer was so short....

This is a very old Carette, wich is in a poor state

Completely disambled.
The burner is still there! The one with the double wick is it...plus the handle thing in front (has to be resoldered)
Original chimney is also there...
Only bad part is the flywheel...not much left

Dampfzauberer

Note:
If you are lucky, then the flywheel has got a piece of metall in front of the original flywheel put on (look close at the picture!)
Maybe you just can take it off and then it is like new

(lets hope)

Cranko

Cranko

Many thanks to all of you for your input

Dampfzauberer

Manxman

This is the best I can do. It's from a 1911 Carette Trade Catalogue. Hope it helps.

Dampfzauberer

ah, that's also the picture i was thinking of.

It should be the first, smallest engine

Manxman

Just out of interest the model numbers for Carette are quite interesting. Carette made loads of products (not just toy steam). My 1911 Catalogue lists all the toy steam bits starting with the earlist models being 100 / , and 101 / , . Theirs only a few of these and then all the steam engines start with a 600 code.

I can't be certain but I'd guess that with a starting code of 100 / , this has to be a very early model and maybe one of the first catalogued by Carette. Although we can say it's as least as old as 1911, I think the model may go back a few years before that.

I don't know how much of the Carette history is known but the firm goes back to about 1886. Toy steam production was limited before 1900 and it was Carette making a trade arrangement with Bassett Lowke (British Firm) that lead in part to their huge expansion in toy steam. At first Carette were just selling Bassett Lowke their standard models but shortly after 1900 they started making models specially for Bassett Lowke and the UK market.

Carette was actually a French man, living and working in Germany. He stopped making steam toys in 1914 (outbreak of WW1) and moved back to France. The company actually stopped fully in 1917.

Bit of a long story but....... I guess what we're aiming for is the model has to date from about 1905 (ish) at the earliest (trade with Bassett Lowke started and huge expansion in Carette trade) and can't really be made after 1914. It is in the 1911 catalogue and it's code suggests it is an early mdel but popular because still being made.

Hope that all makes sense and helps a little.

Cranko

Thanks guys, the model I have is 13" high with chimney but doesn't have a pressure guage although it does have a plug where one may have been at some point in its life .The flywheel on mine is also very different

Manxman

Cranko

Hi Manx, yes there has been another plate pushed over and filled with lead but I have removd that abd the tinplate skeleton remains , not heavy enough to act as a flywheel, I'll try and put another pic up.

Manxman

Oh yes please, more pics. I had a good look through all my Plank stuff today and I'm sure it's not them. Although I think all of these upright models look the same, they're not and that round wooden base is quite different. I'll do Bing tonight but I'm still with Mirko on this and think it is a Carette.

Maybe it's not the original flywheel?

Cranko

This is the best my camera and my lack of photographic ability can produce