IP Eng Boiler in a Mamod Loco

CCairns · IP Eng Boiler in a Mamod Loco

Just found this photo whilst going through postings on another Mamod Railway Yahoo group - http://www.flickr.com/photos/51032247@N00/430877739/in/photostream/

I thought this may be of interest to our Mamod Modification Forum members, particularly tmuir for that SL1 rebuild.

Mamodman123

IT fits, just about. funny how he has that boiler then normal mamod cylinders

CCairns

He is actually looking at fitting the uprated cylinders or the 'O' ring upgrade.

He has had endless problems with this loco and has posted lots of questions on at least 2 Yahoo groups, although I do not think he has found our Forum yet.

Mamodman123

CCairns

I add our Forum to my next posting to him on the Yahoo group. Just waiting to find out the thread sizes for the bolt on the top of the water gauge glass tube from IP Eng.

He has, as do I, the idea of fitting a pressure gauge to this boiler using a syphon tube into this bolt. I think Mamodevon is doing something similar with his IP boiler as well.

tmuir · Re: IP Eng Boiler in a Mamod Loco

Rob

i have a plan to make a steam tram from the basic mamod loco chassis with a IP boiler and all the fittings with up-rated cyliners. it will basicaly be a mamod loco without the body work, and a tram body on instead. if anyone has bits which i could use and they dont need any more, please let me know. im after wheels, chassis frames, valve block, smokebox and comb chamber. also some upgrades (most dont have unwanted ones) a IP reg, safety valve, water top up valve, round house lube and possible a IP boiler (might just buy one from IP with the fitting if they have any left).

also chris, the model rail mag i have with the tram is issue #20 oct 1995. a falcon steam tram reviewed by david pinniger.

Graham-Jilly

I would love and IP boiler but at £100 +postage I think ill give it a miss at the moment unless one comes up cheap on ebay

CCairns

rob-dd Yes I would love to see a copy or a scan of that article at some point if at all possible.

Graham-Jilly Not many IP boilers come up on ebay, and usually already in a loco. Locos, Sets and parts are going for high prices at present, I got outbid on this upgraded loco http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/MAMOD-LIVE-...PageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

tmuir Hope you get the boiler sorted out as I'm not convinced that the long term use of gas burners is a good idea on the standard soft soldered Mamod boiler. I got a quick same day reply to my e-mail to IP Eng that I sent via their website today, although I do not think I got the right answer (bolt size for the top of the water sight glass tube). If you are still after this boiler I could get one and send it on to you if they will not send you one to Australia, assuming that they are still available.

Graham-Jilly

Chris I was watching that one but when it went over the £100 mark I stoped watching. I think in the end with all the mods its nealy cheap enough to buy an Edrig

CCairns

Graham, yes it had several upgrades, and it was the T piece for the safety valve/regulator and a complete drag beam that got me interested. Looks like PPS will be getting a big order from me for my IP Jane/PPS Janet rebuild plus upgrades and enhancements to some of my other Mamods. Too many people on here looking for these bits unfortunately.

Spule 4

Spule 4

CCairns

Hi Garrett,

Glad to see you are here on this Forum.

Hopefully you will get more information out of members here than your attempts on the various Yahoo groups.

Sadly the IP boiler & PPS boilers are not made to the same spec and have different thread sizes. I've still not found out the size of the bolt on top of the sight glass tube on my IP Jane but it is not the same as the PPS bolt. Also the PPS Janet has 2 additional take-offs on the boiler for fitting a pressure gauge and whistle, and you've guessed it they are a different size again.

I've just fitted a ceramic gas burner into my IP Jane, and as the gas tank fouls the regulator, I thought no problem I'll fit the extended one I have for my IP Jane/PPS Janet project using a PPS Janet boiler - but yes you've guessed it again the regulators have different threads as well! D'oh!

So I'm halfway through making an extension to that regulator.

I'll take this bolt from my IP Jane to STIA2008 and see if anyone can help identify its thread size.

Spule 4

CCairns

A tip I heard from another Forum member which came from Ivan at IP Engineering was just to drill a hole in the top of that nut and solder in a pipe to make your syphon tube.

That is OK if the gauge is going to be a permanent feature on your loco, but as I intend to share the gauge between 2 locos (as they are not cheap!), I'd like to be able to remove the syphon tube and replace it with this mysterous bolt.

Here are 2 photos of my IP Jane to show you how they fitted the Roundhouse lubricator into the cab area.

And if you look at Graham's posting you will see how he has added a lubricator to the regulator kit (although it is on a standard Mamod boiler) - http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/about4138.html

Graham-Jilly

well I found something very interesting on the weekend. our MSS loco was running realy great with the upgraded piston kit but there was no chuff chuff like the sl1k. the sl1k wasnt as good a runner as the mss loco either. so decided to investigate and found that the exhaust pipe on the mss had the end crimped over and a small slot cut into the pipe just under the crimp. I hadnt realy noticed that before and the sl1k the pipe was cut off clean no crimp.
I decided to make the pipe on the mss the same and cut the end off but bad mistake nice chuff chuff but runs like a dog. im assuming this crimp and slot provides back pressure so making the engine run better. im going to put the original pipe back and compare again. marvin (MSS) has always been a great runner so maybe this has been the reason . not sure but will let you know when Ive fixed the exhaust pipe.

Spule 4

Mamodevon

Spule 4

Mamodevon · Syphon on IP Boiler

Here is a pic of what I have done with my IP Boiler. I have fitted a standard syphon adaptor for the pressure gauge and drilled a hole in the top of that to make a take off to a blow down pipe and valve to release the air from the water glass and to feed hot water onto the gas tank to keep it warm.

Please see my website for more photos of this setup under My Collection.

MD

Mamodevon · Odd looking boiler (IP?)

I have this SL1K with an odd looking boiler. It might be an early IP or PPS boiler.

Please see my website for further pics under Other Steam.

MD

CCairns

Mamodevon Thanks for posting that photo of your impressive modifications.

Seems that the boiler fitted to my IP Jane is much earlier than your boiler (and the one fitted to Garrett's Mamod as well) as the nut on top of the sight glass tube has little in the way of threads and the fitting is not as tall as the one on your photo. This must have been when Cheddar Models originally made the boilers, and the one you have must have come from another source.

It is very frustating as I'd like to get the size of my nut sorted out, and get a replacement to make a syphon tube.

The blowdown (or should that be blowup) valve is a great idea as these sight glass tubes do suffer from air bubbles.

What size is your pressure gauge and where did you get it from? And what is your normal indicated pressure when running?

Spule 4

CCairns

with an odd looking boiler

I have a heavily modified Mamod which is to get its first showing to the public tomorrow at STIA2008 (subject to road closures, snow, etc.).

It has a similar looking boiler backplate although without the sight glass tube fitted. I believe it is a standard Mamod boiler which had a new backplate fitted possibly by a company called Samson Locomotives, who apparently offered various Mamod modifications in the late 1980s/early 1990s. Posting a question on another Yahoo group tells me that the owner had failing eyesight and has stopped trading some time ago.

Bogstandard

If the guys making all these bits for steam engines have any model engineering knowledge, they should be using the standard M.E. threads.
Standard sort of size for boiler fittings is 1/4" x 32 TPI, or the next size down is 3/16" x 40 TPI. If you know anyone that runs i.c. models, the standard glowplug size will fit the 1/4" x 32, so if it does, you know that is the size.
The continentals sometimes use M.E. threads, but also some sort of fine metric size.

Here is a site showing the M.E. thread sizes but on the right hand side most other threads as well.

http://modratec.com/mud_me.php

John

CCairns

Bogstandard Thanks for your posting on thread sizes. The size of the screw/bolt on top of the IP Boiler has been a long running thread, over several Forums and Groups online.

As I've said above my boiler is different from the one that Spule 4 & Mamodevon have. Whilst Cheddar Models used 1/4" x 32TPI on their boiler fittings, the fittings for the safety valve and water top-up valve on this IP boiler (and the PPS boiler as well) are 1/4" x 40ME TPI, and a reply from IP Eng indicated that the sight glass tube top bolt is 5/16" x 40 TPI which I think covers the bolt on the later boilers that Spule 4 & Mamodevon have. Whilst the bolt in question on my boiler will loosely fit into the safety valve mounting hole, the safety valve will not fit into the sight glass tube top mounting. This leads me to think it is some sort of tapered thread.

I'm taking it to STIA2008 tomorrow to see if one of the dealers in the very cold Marque will have a better idea of what thread size it is as I really would like to get a syphon tube made up to fit a pressure gauge on my IP Jane.

Bogstandard

C-C,

I have taps and dies for almost every conceivable thread used in model making, and a few that aren't (except metric fine). So if you want a quickie job doing just tell me the sizes and they will be with you post haste.

John

Spule 4

Spule 4

Bogstandard

Spule,

Try here, and look at specials, you might find what you need.

http://www.tracytools.com/tapsanddiesmain.htm

They are usually only carbon taps and dies, but I have been using them for years on my non ferrous work with no problems at all. They don't last too well in some of the harder steeels, but for the type of work you lads are doing, they are just fine.

I don't know if they do international, but they can give you only one of two answers.

John

8_10 Brass Cleaner

Spule 4

Bogstandard

M.E. is Model Engineering thread.

A beautiful set of fine threads, in 32 & 40 TPI, even in the larger sizes, especially suited to brass. It will almost allow you to thread thin walled tube, and is what I use for all my steam fittings.

John

steamyjim

Aye ME is nice to use. We tend to standardise any fittings we make-mainly 1/4 40 TPI

CCairns

Sadly due to a lack of properly qualified teachers, I never did any metalwork education, and only a couple of months of woodwork.

So all this thread size business is a big learning process at present.

As this is a recent item from the late 1990s/early 2000s I am sure it has to be one of the ME threads. As it is definitely not 1/4" x 32 TPI which is the thread size used by Cheddar Models, and I have several pieces of a Cheddar kit yet to be built with this thread size, then it has to be 1/4" x 40 TPI, as I cannot see them mixing up a metric thread with a British thread in the same product.

I need to get a closer look at this thread under a magnifying glass to see if there is some thread damage which is preventing a 1/4" x 40 TPI threaded safety valve fitting in this aperture.

Thanks for the posting regarding thread gauges, but again you need to be very careful here as they are available in so many formats.

Bogstandard

C-C,
I know exactly what you mean, thread sizing can be an absolute minefield as each manufacturer seems to think they are doing the right thing, but are in fact, totally confusing the issue, and also if you are not familiar with thread shapes and angles, again it can be very confusing.

I have the same sort of trouble when converting drawings from American UNC & UNF threads to equivalent English BA or metric threads.

It is a shame I couldn't get to the show, as armed with a micrometer, a few taps and thread gauges, I could most probably have got measurements for all the required sizes for the machines that were there, and turned it into a bit of a reference guide. Maybe next year.
Unless of course someone in the know already has this info, and is willing to share it.

John

Spule 4

The generation of IP boiler I own (bought in 2007) has a 1/4 40 TPI ME thread.

I thought it was different, but apparently not after all this time!

CCairns

Finally solved my problem thanks to a torch and a magnifying glass.

The threads on the top of the water sight glass tube have got some sort of black deposit in them (presumably some sort of thread lock), and by carefully working back and forth the safety valve, I've now confirmed that the thread for my bolt is 1/4" x 40 TPI, the same as the safety valve & water top-up valve. The bolt was either badly cut or has been worn down a lot to be a loose fitting (sight glass does get dirty sometimes so it was probably removed several times by the previous owner).

So now I can get a bolt or banjo bolt and fit a syphon tube for a pressure gauge.

Thanks to all for leading me down this path tonight.

Now I must get my locos packed for STIA2008 tomorrow.

IP Eng Boiler in a Mamod Loco

Re: IP Eng Boiler in a Mamod Loco

Syphon on IP Boiler

Odd looking boiler (IP?)