Japanese type (sort of) vaporizing burner.

Caprice · Japanese type (sort of) vaporizing burner.

Thanks logoman for the inspiration!
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Edit: Sorry, it was mogogear that posted some pictures of the "copper tube" burner, logoman is surely also an inspiration just not in this case. They both have funny avatars so I confused the two.

http://modelsteam.trillian.myfreeforum.org/ftopic22842-0.php
(Scroll down to middle of page)
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Take a ~10mm brass rod, thread and drill holes in it, one big and four small, bend copper tube and put it all together:

(Prepared for soldering)

(Soldered)

(Cleaned and bent)

The trick then is to drill small holes so that the evaporated meths flame(s) heats up the copper tube, room for experimentation here I guess.

Drilled four 0.5 mm holes near the base of the copper tubes (I think 0.3 mm would have been even better)so that the flames met at the "horizontal" top(The red lines in the pic above).

Work very good IMHO, better that the "open cup" burner I had in my vertical.

Will post a video of it working soon...

Over and out from a chilly Sweden, C.

James

Very interesting, will be good to see it working!

Caprice

Thanks, as promised here's the video:

The burner will also function as a base for a vertical boiler(works even better there, more drag and pressure I guess?).

Had some problems to get it leak proof though , thanks to my soldering skills, or lack there of, that required many expletives.

Will test with a valve on the vent pipe to see what that can do for adjustment of the flame?

Comments welcome!

C

Burnmafingers

Thats neat, I like it!

mogogear

Extraordinary work Caprice!! Did you make the bottom part as well?

These little burners will act a little differently when just under the boiler . the flames tend to widen out nicely and envelope the bottom portion well.

Hands and heads are great attributes in your shop!

Les

Very cleverly done.

redryder

That burns realy well.

Nice work !!!!

Gil

igy569

Excellent!! I like that a lot!!

metalhead100

Nice work!

There are LAB lamps on eBay that are sold as wick less....using the same idea I believe.

Jim

Caprice

mogogear, Thanks! (and sorry for the "credit confusion in my first post, It belongs to you.

Yes, I built the bottom also. I did a mess of it though, had to solder it several times to fix leaks, the copper top warped and I burnt holes in the sides(No pictures, sorry). Therefore the black paint and the fake name plate at the side.

Here it is with a boiler on top, I wanted it to look kind of "old", similar to some pictures I've seen.
End result is more of scrapheap challenge I think, but it's god enough for me.

Need to make a door also, so I can light it...

metalhead100, yes you are right (Googled on ebay), that's the same type as mogogear posted about, didn't know they were lab burners...
http://modelsteam.trillian.myfreeforum.org/ftopic22842-0.php
(scroll down to middle of page))

Did a steam test outdoors and I manage to get a nice long "smokescreen" of steam and yet the boiler is just 100cc.

Finally, thanks for all nice feedback!!

STEAMPROPULSION

hello Caprice,
it seems that everybody in this forum understood where you drill your 4 small holes but I.
"near the base of the copper tubes" is somewhat vague to. As an architect I understand only drawings or sketches. Can you make one?
Following the suggestions of the previous Logoman thread which generated interest on meths burner I made one for an asmatic boiler, the penny burner. It works perfectly but I want to attach it to a chicken feed meths tank.
It is one inch in diameter and it is made from a Ronson gas canister.

The boiler is that of an African Queen Plant

logoman

what a great thread, lots of creativity.

calypso

Yes. Great thread.

Got me thinking. I always have problems with wicks.

Caprice

STEAMPROPULSION, here's a attempt to a drawing, hope that helps, I guess I got carried away a little and cluttered it with more things than necessary but... anyway:

(The tubes are not bent here, I stared my self blind on the second picture

.)

That burner of yours looks(and burns) god, like a coke can burner in miniature...

Is that Stuart? wobbler and boiler part of a kit?
-----------
Thanks logoman and calypso!
What's your wick problem(sorry for sounding like an wick shrink.

)?

C.

STEAMPROPULSION

THANK YOU CAPRICE,
AT LAST I FEEL "AT HOME" WITH YOUR SKETCH (PROFESSIONALLY DONE BTW). I WILL TRY A REPLICA OF YOUR BURNER.

THE STEAM PLANT BELONGS TO AN AFRICAN QUEEN (A.Q.), STUART ST ENGINE + CENTRAL FLUE VERTICAL BOILER. THE ORIGINAL BURNER IS A STRAIGHT TWO WICKS BURNER AND THE WICKS ARE JUST SENDING HEATH STRAIGHT TO THE CIMNEY . THAT IS WHY I AM DESIGNING A NEW BURNER.
LES AND I HAVE THE VERY SAME BOAT (SEE PICS OF BOTH BOATS IN THE MARITIME SHED OF STWW), AND HE WAS COMPLAINING ABOUT THE SAME DEFECT OF THE BOILER. I HAVE SEEN THE SAME A.Q. BOAT ON EBAY QUITE A FEW TIMES, SO IT MUST HAVE BEEN MADE IN SOME SMALL BATCH PRODUCTION.
ANYBODY WHO KNOWN MORE ABOUT THIS A.Q. IS WELCOMED.
CHEERS TO ALL.

mogogear

Great sketch to boot!

Caprice

STEAMPROPULSION, thanks

, I'm feel kind of honored, Shall be interesting... I will try to help out if there's any problem when you build it...not that I'm any expert though.

I have also a boiler with a clean center flu(no cross tubes). Soldered two 4mm tubes across the opening in the bottom. Seems to absorb a little more heat from the fire..or if it's my imagination?
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Thanks, mogogear.

STEAMPROPULSION

THIS TYPE OF BOILER IS THE LEAST EFFICIENT AMONGS THE VERTICAL ONES. AN IMPROVEMENT WOULD HAVE BEEN A SERIES OF SLIGHTLY INCLINED CROSS TUBES SOLDERED THROUGH THE CIMNEY.
BUT THIS MODIFICATION CAN BE CARRIED OUT ONLY FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE CONSTRUCTION.

Caprice

You are right, that's a more efficient way after what (little) I understand. I think though that you can modify a boiler that way, even after it's finished, but it's more work of course. I didn't want do go that far, so I did a "quick fix":

(It doesn't show in the picture but the tubes are a little inclined "horizontally".)

I should have taken some measurements how long it takes to boil water before/after modification. Now I can only guess if it improved the time...I think so though.

logoman

My small Hemmens has the same problem, the burner flame forming a point up through the chimney. I heard a tip (havent tried it) that some wire from the heating element of a hair drier, formed into a ball and lodged in the chimney would convect more energy to the water.

STEAMPROPULSION

Miles,
I was thinking about placing over the flame one of those heat diffusing round elements (steel crossed net) used on gas stoves.
I don't know if we are talking about the same thing: maybe italian hair driers are different...
Cheers.

logoman

STEAMPROPULSION

TO CAPRICE:
I EXAMINED THE PICTURE OF YOUR MODIFIED BOILER.
THIS IS WHAT I THINK:
I THINK THAT YOU HAVE ADDED A BIT MORE OF HEATING SURFACE TO YOUR BOILER, BUT YOU HAVE NOT INCREASED WATER CIRCULATION SPEED UNLESS YOUR TWO TUBES ARE ASYMMETRIC.
(SEE SKETCH).
TO INCREASE EFFICIENCY, WATER TUBES MUST BE PLACED AT DIFFERENT LEVELS.

Caprice

STEAMPROPULSION, the ends are at different levels but maybe not as much as in your picture, ~1-1.5cm and not asymmetric I'm afraid. I'm happy with it though even if it probably could be better.

Here's a video of it working(~15psi)with this threads burner(Posted also in the "More Whistle" thread):

(Warning, four minutes of whistle blowing.)

mogogear

logoman

Thanks Greg, that's a good idea and will save me experimenting with burners.

Giovanni, could you show me how far into a Stuart Babcock boiler the tubes go?

STEAMPROPULSION

Miles,
this is something you should not have asked to me!
I have already packed all the steam books and documents I had in my office in four huge boxes.
As you know I'm moving from my office and this has been the first sacrifice.
In these boxes there an original STUART "blueprint" of the Babcock boiler, coming directly from Stuart Technical department.
I don't know if I can retrive it anymore.
My sketch follows exactly A. Raymond's layout of his famous boiler intended to be coupled with a STUART BB HIGH SPEED engine.
The ends of the water tubes must be at different levels working as a syphon.
But don't loose your hopes.

STEAMPROPULSION

CAPRICE,
I think that you must be satisfied with your boiler output, which seems to be more than adequate for a whistle.
How does it go with a steam engine?
This reminds of the chapter of a french steam book named: "Le secret c'est la temperature"
This means that one of the most important factores involved in the production of steam is the FIRE.
I HAVE SERIOUS GAS TANK FREEZING PROBLEMS ON MY ANTON PLANT.
THIS IS A CHALLENGE FOR STARTING A NEW SERIOUS THREAD ON THIS TOPIC:

"GAS TANK CHILLING PROBLEMS: HOW I GOT RID OF IT"

Caprice

Thanks STEAM PROPULSION!

It can drive a VR1A(Graham Industries) OK I think, but that engine probably need a bigger boiler. It's the only one I have at the moment though, just started with steam, so I have nothing to compared to.

STEAMPROPULSION

GREAT DRAWING.
THAT'S WHAT I MEANT.

logoman

Caprice

STEAMPROPULSION, I was lucky then...

logoman, are the (self)pressurized alcohol burners quieter than gas?
At home, gas is to loud for my liking, you don't hear the delicate "tick" of the engine at low speed behind the gas burning roar... Maybe a gas regulator makes it better somewhat?

logoman

Caprice

Haha, you are right, how many pounds of thrust are there in that thing?

(That's an amazing machine you have there, thanks for the video!!!)

STEAMPROPULSION

IT HAD TO HAPPEN.
I GOT DRUNK WITH ALL THIS ALCOHOL AROUND AND I ORDERED A FAKE TRANGIA WHICH ARRIVED THIS MORNING. I DIDN' GET BROKE(£3,99):
EBAY 120483269388

logoman

that's value, and you will make the chicken feeder?

Caprice

With that you can cook the chicken also...

(Perhaps you know already but if you gonna solder it you need to cooling off part of it since there's a "tubular wick" around the inner wall, drawing meths up to the holes?)

STEAMPROPULSION

I just had a very short test with it. Maybe i should have put more alcohol in it. It didn't seem to vaporise alcohol. I'll try with more alcohol. I didn't know it had a wick inside. Thanks for the info.