Latimer Plane L4 pipe fixing. Done - page 3

Atticman · Latimer Plane L4 pipe fixing. Done - page 3

I have a nice little L4, but it has no steam pipe

.

It came with a piece of brass, but it seems a bit thick for the job.

1 what is the size of the pipe- length as well as diameter if possible.
2 I cant see how the pipe attaches at the boiler end- I have a nut with a trace of red, and a nozzle coming off the boiler.
But no trace of solder

.
3. The cylinder is a bit loose- are they just small rivets holding the cylinder onto the red frame,
there are 2 loose ones, but I think a go with a riveter will sort that

.

It also came with a sweet little red box, much as Nicks recent arrival.
But this box is a bit tatty.

Never use selotape on these, as the sticky stuff denatures and cruddy stuff discolours the box.

I have some lickable tape which will secure it. BUT the box is warped,
slight moisture at a guess in the attic while theyve stored it.

Would it be OK to slightly moisen the cardoard inside to allow me to straighten it out.
Has anyone any other ideas.
The red outside looks like moisture isnt a good idea on this side of the box.

Les

Any pictures??

Atticman

Atticman

At last pics of the nut. steam pipe insertion

The nut that screws into the steam pipe here is upside down.
Ive Still no clue where the steam pipe connects

The inlet into the cylinder is obvious and has some solder

And this is the 2 rivets I am on about-
I think these just need repunching or am I missing something

here

johnreid

I assume you need to flare the steam line to go into the nut? I think you will have this one up and running in no time.

Atticman

Ahh thanks John, yes I see what you mean, need a washer as well, which i have.

I still need the pipe diameter off someone, i know of 3 members who have these, in 3 different countries, so am hopeful

steamgranny

johnreid

1/8 inch is .125, I wonder if that isnt what it is? I might have a short length. Or do you think it is metric or something?

Nick

I'll try and get some measurements for you when I can get to my engine. It will be within the next 12 hours or so.

I missed the thread earlier.

MTA

Tom,

1) According to my vernier, the OD of the steam pipe is:

3.2mm (accurate to 0.03mm)

0.126" (accurate to 0.001")

2) On my steam pipe, the nut is really a bolt which the steam pipe is a very good fit into.

3) When you say the cylinder is loose, I presume you mean just the port block is loose?

Mine has a very tiny bit of slack against the engine frame, but in your case re-punching or re-reviting is the best option.

Atticman

MTA

Well, the nut revolves and does not appear to seperate from the thread that screws into the boiler (I'm sure it must do though). I couldn't investigate too much as there was very little flex in the pipe as it is soldered into the port block.

The nut does revolve around the pipe though, and it does not go up or down around it. Just in a circle if that helps

Atticman

If there is play in the nut then seems strange to be
able to get a steam tight fit

As the nut tightens straight into the boiler
I cant fully work out how the play of the nut
stops steam from escaping

Suppose it must have a good washer in there somewhere

.

johnreid

If the copper tube is flared , the nut would spin freely ,until tightened of course. An O Ring can help the seal if there is a lot of play, but with the conical shape of the bushing in the boiler, it sure looks like a flare fitting to me.

Wallace

One thing I found with Mamods, is the union nut fitting doesn't have a flared end, and a simple use of a oring somehow keeps the steamline from blowing out or leaking.

I'm think along the lines of John, might be a flared end.

Unless it's a "olive" fitting. I'm not 100% sure, but I think the idea is as the union nut is screwed down, it causes the dome type boiler fitting to close and grip the steam pipe

johnreid

IF it was an "olive" compression fitting, the threaded part coming out of the boiler should be concave. I agree that if the pipe goes into the stud and an O ring is compressed that it might provide a seal as the pressure isnt as great as most plumbing fittings are designed to work with, plus some O rings expand when heated, making it seal. Flaring such a small pipe would be a challenge as they dont make muck spreaders that small

Atticman

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VINTAGE-DIN...PageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

John, Im onto it

johnreid

Nick

Sorry for the delay, but I hope this helps.

The closest measurement I could get for the length of the pipe is 3-1/2 inches. I did this by running a string the length of the pipe and then measuring how much string it took.

The outside diameter of the pipe was .126 inches, so I would say it is 1/8 inch pipe and the extra .001 inch was the paint.

Here is how mine is connected:

The pipe has a small flare on the end:

And this is what the nut looks like:

I will also get a few pictures of my box for you.

If you need any more measurements, just ask.

Nick

I forgot to mention the steam line sits just under 4 inches from the base:

My box is also in poor condition and smells like it spent a few years in a barn.

Les

johnreid

I do believe that is a flare

Copper is fairly soft so with a little ingenuity you should be able to flare the pipe, from the looks of Nicks pipe there has been a gasket or O Ring also at some time. I bet a countersink or other such tapered tool might be used to flare that pipe. Use the same principle as James with the Muck Spreader.I was given a short length of 1/8 in tubing that I have plans for inn the future, but might be able to part with 4 inches or so if you can not find it more local, I would think that there should be some on your side of the Atlantic though.

Les

If it was the flare then there would be a smooth line along the outside of the pipe to the end. It does look to me as if there is an extra piece where the pipe has been flared as there is a small step up.

6000

johnreid

I think that is just a by product of having the nut tightened to it, however, I have seen some people sweat a small piece of pipe on the end of a pipe to more or less create a flare. Another approach would be to make a flared fitting on a lathe and sweat a piece of 1/8 tubing onto it. Ingenuity will make various ways to get that done.
I do think that there has been some sort of packing between the nut and the tubing, which the residue thereof might be what we are looking at.

Les

Still what ever it is lets hope it stops it from leaking and we can see it in steam.

johnreid

If the stud coming out of the engine is brass, one could carefully solder the tubing right onto it.

Nick

James

igy569

Wouldn't a basic flaring tool work?

I have been making my own brake lines for years, that looks like a simple single flare, and if you wanted to make sure it good, double flare it. That extra "ring" looks like a flattened out double flare. Should be easy on brass line.

Atticman

Nick, among others many thanks for that. What a helpful and friendly forum this really is

Theres a meter of 1/8th for £2.99 On ebay, so should be fixed soon.

The joint reminds me of the Bowman steam pipe couplings, its odd that MTAs seems different, I think Steve_s has one also, wonder what his is like.

Looking at this, I can see the course of events

The cylinder port became loose, and the constant flexing caused by the loose port caused the solder joint to break.

The pipe was put away to be mended sometime and got lost

Wallace

That is interesting to see that fitting.

For some reason I was picturing the steam pipe had to go into the hole of the domed part. I was way off

Certainly shows what a great forum and helpful bunch of people there are here

johnreid

Let me know if you can not get the tubing.

Nick

I hope you do get this one running soon.

Also note that the pipe doesn't sit straight across. It kind of slopes down:

Nick

Here are a few more pictures of the steam line from different angles. I hope they help.

You can see the slight downward slope if you match the steam line up with the wall:

Atticman

Steve_S

Mine is exactly the same as Nick's.

johnreid

I cant wait to see how yours turns out.

MooseMan

I used to have an L4, and the tube in the union nut was flared. 1/8" diameter steam pipe is pretty much universal on British toy steam.

GUTMACH

The reasoning for the pipe to be angled toward the cylinder is to allow the condensation/fluid to drain?
I believe this is the little copper ring that you see on the tubing.

http://www.fittingsandadapters.com/coppergasket.html

This was very handy regarding the thread, as I went out to the garage and found my old flaring tool, and yes, it handles 1/8" diameter.

Wayde

Atticman

Finally

Not exactly right, but its good enough.

James

I missed this thread I think!

You've done a great job IMO!

Is it working now??

Atticman

Mamodman123

Thats a great job Tom!

Does it work?

Atticman

I learnt all my soldering skills from MM remember

Mamodman123

Atticman

Les

Glad you have got it all sorted and it is running really well.

Steve_S

That looks fine.. well done!

steamgranny

Ah! Happy to see the little L4 repaired & working, at last

Always afraid mine is going to take off, too & think it would if I fitted a propeller

But I've tamed it by making a little experimental burner cover & can get it ticking over quite nicely - see below vid. And as experiment has proved successful, shall make a smarter version of cover.

Steve_S

That's a good idea Alicia... they do run rather fast!