Steve_S
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Latimer / Plane L5This is a restoration that's been going on for far too long for one reason or another, but now its done and I'm very pleased with it... see what you think!
I saw this engine on eBay about two years ago. I had no idea what it was...obviously a Mamod base, but equally obviously not a Mamod engine. I thought it looked interesting and kind of elegant, so I bought it for £23. Within a few weeks I saw a Latimer L4 on eBay and I thought this engine might be from the same manufacturer because the flywheel and cylinder castings looked very similar. I'd read something about an L5 model, but I'd never seen one so I didn't know if that's what it was until, at STIA 2005, I saw John Chapmans L5. John kindly let me take some photos and measurements which have proved invaluable. Since then there have been two more (I think) L5's on ebay and those pictures have also been very useful. (Incidently, I'd recommend saving eBay pictures, its a great free resource that's very useful when it comes to restorations.) These are the original eBay pictures of my L5...
To see what an L5 should look like, there are also some good pictures on John Chapman's site and on the S.T.E.A.M. site.
The first job was to make a new base. I used a bit of sheet steel cut from the back panel of an old filing cabinet. The edges were folded down and the corners soldered. I drilled the Meccano spaced holes at the corners using a Meccano plate as a template. (I think that's a much easier way than marking it all out laboriously... it would be quite easy to make a Mamod flat base like this.)
The whistle was blocked and its lever arm was broken off. I considered just soldering on a new arm and leaving well alone... at least it was steam tight... but in the end I couldn't resist trying to fix it. I had to drill out a rivet to remove the drum of the whistle mechanism, then I cleaned all the bits and made sure there was no blockage. To reassemble it I drilled a shallow hole in the end of the drum and soldered in a bit of thin threaded rod.. actually a small bolt with the head cut off. I could now assemble it with a spring and nut just like an old Mamod whistle, and that means I can now take it to bits again any time I need to. I soldered on a new brass arm made from one of the conductors from an old electrical mains socket. The whistle is soldered into the boiler, it doesn't screw into a thread like Mamod. I hadn't needed to knock off the boiler ends for any other reason so I had to resolder the whistle from the outside, but I think it looks OK.
At some time somebody had made a chimney from copper pipe, and it had been quite nicely done, but it should really have been brass. I had already experimented with chimney making for the Burnac so it was fairly straightforward to fashion a new brass one.
Now the biggest job, it needed a new burner. Luckily I had a good photo of a real Latimer burner to work from...
... so this is what I made...
Finally, the painting. The base is sprayed with Ford Laurel Green double acrylic, the red burner tank and engine frame are Plasticote Insignia Red enamel, and the firebox is Wilkinsons BBQ.
Stylistically there are lots of similarities with Luton Bowman engines which were in production at around the same time and just 30 miles away. The burner looks very similar to a PW203 burner with its square red tank and double tubes. The sloping diagonal of the engine frame, and the brass oiler on top of the engine block are just like a PW203. Overall it also has a PW201 look about it, especially the way that the red pipework curves down from the chimney. Its hard to believe that there wasn't some copying of ideas, or, at least, "inspiration" involved here! It seems that the L4 and L5 were the only steam engines made by Latimer Productions... I wonder what happened to L1,L2, and L3......?
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yosa
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That's some job Steve. Excellant work mate. 
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MooseMan
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That is just incredible.....I can't believe how good your burner copy is.
Beautiful engine - I need one!
Astonishing job Steve - you're the king of restoration. 
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Steve_S
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| MooseMan wrote: | That is just incredible.....I can't believe how good your burner copy is.
Beautiful engine - I need one!
Astonishing job Steve - you're the king of restoration. |
It is a beautiful engine, and you do need one.
As for the rest, well, I don't know about that!
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tmuir
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Great job.
I've got a Luton PW201 in the mail to me and have a PW203 but no burner for it but the PW201 does have a burner though its a single not double burner.
You have inspired me to make a burner for my PW203 but I may be asking you questions about how you made yours.
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SPOKESMAN
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A very nice looking unit, great finish too.
The flywheel looks similar to the Luton too, is the power take off on it, ie a pulley?
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Wallace
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Fantastic Job Steve!!
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Steve_S
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Thanks for the comments guys.
| SPOKESMAN wrote: | | ...The flywheel looks similar to the Luton too, is the power take off on it, ie a pulley? |
Yes, flywheel has an integral pulley at the back. I'll post a picture later. I'll also post a video when its had a run.
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tmuir
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Did you just soft solder the burner together?
Also the how did you make the caps for the tubes?
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Steve_S
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| tmuir wrote: | Did you just soft solder the burner together?
Also the how did you make the caps for the tubes? |
Yes, the burner is soft soldered. I found that worked OK on the burner I made for my M140, though I was a bit wary for the first few runs! I think its OK for the same reason that you can soft solder a boiler... it can't get hotter than the boiling point of the liquid it contains, which is considerably lower than the melting point of solder. For the ends of the tubes I just soldered in bits of rod that were a good fit.
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sparky
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absolutly brilliant work mate 
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tmuir
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| Steve_S wrote: |
For the ends of the tubes I just soldered in bits of rod that were a good fit. |
Good one, I'de of never thought of that.
I assumed you had just soldered brass sheet to the end from the inside and the filed it back level to the tube.
One final question what did you use for the threaded bush for the filler bolt?
I'm getting more and more excited about making a burner for my Luton now.
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sparky
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bet you are mate that will be diffrent
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Steve_S
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| tmuir wrote: | | One final question what did you use for the threaded bush for the filler bolt? |
It's just a large nut with the flats filed off, then soldered over a hole in the tank. I'll be very interested to see how you get on with a Luton burner. I think some Lutons have lots of small transverse slots across the tubes, and others have single long slots as on older Bowman burners. Which are you going for?
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Mamodman123
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wow what a transformation  that burner is an exact copy don't know how you do it Steve
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tmuir
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| Steve_S wrote: |
It's just a large nut with the flats filed off, then soldered over a hole in the tank. I'll be very interested to see how you get on with a Luton burner. I think some Lutons have lots of small transverse slots across the tubes, and others have single long slots as on older Bowman burners. Which are you going for? |
I was thinking of going with the slotted type but will wait till I get my PW201 and had a closer look at that burner and see if its possible.
Below is a picture of my PW201 with its burner still lost in the postel system somewhere and below that is Moosemans PW203 buner.
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Steve_S
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Thanks MM!
As for the Luton burners, I've never seen a multi-slotted one lit. I'd be interested to see a picture of that if anyone could oblige? 
Tmuir, that picture of Odilon's 203 burner is excellent information. You could make a good copy from that!
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tmuir
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| Steve_S wrote: | Thanks MM!
As for the Luton burners, I've never seen a multi-slotted one lit. I'd be interested to see a picture of that if anyone could oblige?
Tmuir, that picture of Odilon's 203 burner is excellent information. You could make a good copy from that! |
Thats the plan,.
When My PW201 turns up provided there is nothing wrong with its burner I'll light it and take a pic for you.
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Steve_S
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| tmuir wrote: | | When My PW201 turns up provided there is nothing wrong with its burner I'll light it and take a pic for you. |
That'd be great... thanks!
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Steve_S
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Some more pictures and videos.
I made a brass tray to catch condensate and oil that gets ejected, especially at the start of the run. The tray has a bracket which holds it against the engine frame.
This one also shows the pulley on the back of the flywheel.
Here's the burner lit.
And here are a couple of videos... sorry about the quality.
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Mamodman123
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Nice runner Steve! Good idea with the tray aswell! That engine reminds me of a bowman
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Steve_S
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| Mamodman123 wrote: | | ....That engine reminds me of a bowman |
Yes, very Lutonish.
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Griffin
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A first class restoration there Steve, real good to see.
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Steve_S
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| Griffin wrote: | | A first class restoration there Steve, real good to see. |
Thanks Griffin!
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Steve_S
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Tmuir, regarding making a Luton burner, something that just occurred to me looking at the picture you posted is that on a multi-slotted burner the tube caps would have to unscrew to let you insert new wicks. It looks like that burner has brass caps which are knurled so you can grip them. On burners that have single long slots you can insert the wick through the slot so the tube ends can be permanently sealed. It seems that some 203 burners were like that... here's one:
Looks very like the one I made!
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tmuir
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Thanks for the pic Steve.
I've been thinking whether I can make threaded end caps or not.
If I cant I think I will just make a slot like yours.
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oldstuff
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Great thread...I always love learning about what Steve_S has been working on.
I'm just in awe of his abilities. So much to talk about here. Firstly, great job,
great resto Steve!
It's funny about the base you made, I mean you say,"The edges were folded
down and the corners soldered." like you were taking a drive on Sunday.
And the burner, too. Being able to fold metal like that would be very helpful.
How did you do it?
I'll be needing to scratch build a whistle soon, so it was good to read about what
you did for yours. I don't understand entirely, though. How did you achieve a steam
tight joint and still be able to turn the valve with a bolt?
Could you show a pic of the bits?
Woderful job there, Steve!
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SPOKESMAN
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A really beautiful engine, I could change my mind on these Latimers . . . 
Kicks out a fair amount of steam!
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sparky
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i really do like these lamiters aswell mike, so ive decided to get one after christmas 
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MooseMan
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| Steve_S wrote: | Tmuir, regarding making a Luton burner, something that just occurred to me looking at the picture you posted is that on a multi-slotted burner the tube caps would have to unscrew to let you insert new wicks. It looks like that burner has brass caps which are knurled so you can grip them. On burners that have single long slots you can insert the wick through the slot so the tube ends can be permanently sealed. It seems that some 203 burners were like that... here's one:
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I guess it is the difference between a vapourising burner and a wick burner. In the burner with slits in the burner tube the flame never touches the wick, it's the meths gas that burns. It's a bugger to light, but once itgets going it's a powerhouse and very clean - no sooting with that one.
On a slotted, Bowman type burner it is the meths coming through the wick that evaporates very close or on the actual wick itself....it is common for these wicks to scorch a bit towards the end of a run as the meths runs out. They're also not quite as clean running.
Even Stevens at the end of the day I guess - I have multiple burners of each variety, and they all power their respective engines well.
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Steve_S
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Yes, I've noticed the tendancy for the wicks to scorch on this burner and on the M140. I try to blow them out as soon as they show any signs of running out... if I notice in time. Its interesting that you don't get any soot with the multi-slot type. A Luton is high on my wanted list!
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Steve_S
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Chuck: Firstly, thanks for your kind words! All of the metal folding that I did was done with a vice and a pair of pliers. Real sheet metal workers have proper folding jigs for this kind of thing, and they could do it in seconds. It took me a bit longer... For the base I folded the long edges first in the vice. Its hard to resist the temptation to hammer the metal directly, but is easy to dent it if you do... as I found... but you can usually hammer out dents against a flat surface. I found its better to put a hardwood block against the metal and hammer that. Do it in easy stages, don't try to bend it too far in one go. When the longer edges were done it was then impossible to put the short edges in the vice because the parts aready folded were in the way. So I had to do the short edges with pliers. Again, a little at a time is the way, checking often to see how it looks and if the corners are matching up. Soldering the corners is case of applying the usual rules... clean the metal thoroughly, plenty of flux, plenty of heat. For the burner I used the pliers on all sides because it was too small for the vice.
Regarding the whistle, here are some pictures:
The "barrel" is slightly tapered, as is the hole it fits into in the whistle body. The spring can then pull the drum in tight while still allowing it to rotate. I think it would be very difficult to make the tapered drum and hole without a lathe and a suitable drill bit.
Here are the equivalent bits of a Mamod whistle, where the taper is more visible.
Mike: Yes there's quite a bit of steam escaping from the cylinder when its running. The piston has a groove around it which is probably just mean't for oil retention, but I'm going to try wrapping some oil soaked thread around the groove to act as a piston ring. That works well on my E135, so we'll see.
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SPOKESMAN
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The thread will work a treat - I have that on my SE4!
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Steve_S
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| SPOKESMAN wrote: | | The thread will work a treat - I have that on my SE4! |
OK that sounds promising then! I'll try it tomorrow.
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oldstuff
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Thanks Steve, I didn't realize you had the tapered(drum)part of the lever ass'y. I see now. 
Good luck with the string and piston test!
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