| Archive for The Unofficial Mamod and Other Steam Forum The Original Unofficial Toy Steam Forum Established 2006 The biggest, most popular global steam forum around! Accept NO imitations! We have a growing community of regular posting members who chat about all aspects of toy and model steam. |
| 27ace27 |
looking to get a lathe...where do I start? very confusing.
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| scorpion2nz |
you think the lathe is confusing 
that is the easy part and cheap part . the running costs (read tooling) is on going and can get damn expensive. but there are ways around somethings if you can think laterally take for instance a knurling tool I do not have one but I did find a way around that .A pair of vice grips just hold them on a angle and crimp release and do it again a bit further along and so on then a light sand and all done |
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| AzRob |
Not to mention space requirements, materials cost... | ||
| 27ace27 |
I just need to know the basics, like what type of lathe to get. | ||
| redryder |
There are over 1800 metal lathes for sale on ebay at any given moment, including right now. There are hundreds of reputable tool companies that will be happy to sell you one. None of them come with experience or training. Is there a trade school you can go to in Omaha?
You can browse through www.MSCdirect.com They are an industrial supply house. I have a hard copy of their over 4500 page catalog and it's a chore just to lift the book! www.micromark.com has mini lathes. |
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| redryder |
He is not the least bit kidding. The tooling costs far more than the lathe in many cases. For larger lathes, keep your eye out for production facilities getting closed down with equipment auctions. In CT you can buy good used lathes and Bridgeport mills and the like for 50 cents to $1 per pound. You need to get someone who knows what they are looking at to help you if you go this route. Again, the tooling will eat you alive even if you are careful. Gil |
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| Mark-One |
I suppose you start by deciding exactly what you want to do with it.
That determines how big a machine you need. After that, things get interesting and I'm not qualified to help you further 
Check out this forum http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/ I've not visited in a while, since I've put my machine away for a bit, but they are a good bunch and the atmosphere is similar to the one here. Just browse some of the sections on tooling, if nothing else. Your question has doubtless been asked before and you might find something of use in the answers. |
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| redryder |
Sherline also supplies good mini lathes.
If you go to this website, be sure and click on their Craftsmanship Museum link. You will see what these tools are capable of in the right hands. http://www.sherlinedirect.com/ |
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| AzRob |
Looking at those prices again reminds me why I don't have a lathe... | ||
| redryder |
I have a used small chinese lathe (not a terribly good one). They claim it's a 7 x 12 but it is a real stretch to think you can successfully turn a 7" piece of metal in it. I got it with some tooling, extra gear set, and a few other goodies. I got a live center for a door prize at cabin fever and a friend gave me a used but decent chuck. I've had it a couple years now and so far have only gotten fairly good at using it to do cosmetic work such as put a nice polish on someone elses machine work. I have only about 400 into the whole thing and I can clearly see that I will need a much sturdier piece of hardware if I ever want to start production of any kind. I will also need a whole lot more time than I have right now to learn it correctly.
Gil |
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| metalhead100 |
Gil,
You did a fine job on that flywheel you sold me... 
Jim |
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| davidcurtis021 |
i,m in the same boat as you wanting to buy a lathe but realising i dont have a clue what i am looking for when i checked the lathes for sale on ebay i bought this dvd which focused me in on what features were important to me.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAP...7461&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT |
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| redryder |
That looks like a good starting place. Gil |
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| igy569 |
Same here. I work in a big machine shop. I did the pricing as to what it would cost me for just the basic tooling. About twice the cost of the lathe itself!! |
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| WeedenSteam |
Re: looking to get a lathe...
Start with Google and read as much as you can about them, soon you will begin to see the type and size that will work for you. When you have determined what you want start looking on eBay and Craigs list to find that model. Avoid buying used from a production shop, find a home handy man that is upgrading, he probably didn't use it enough to wear it out and it will have extra accessories included. Most new offshore manufactured hobby lathes need quite a bit of tuning to get them to work with any degree of accuracy, they also tend to have plastic gears which can be replaced with metal ones at additional cost. That being said many are very happy with them. Older Sears lathes come up quite often, avoid the ones with the 1/2" spindles as they tend to bend very easily and have a bushed headstock, look for a timken bearing model with the larger spindle. Thread cutting is very easy on these lathes. Sherline is another good starter lathe, they are often on eBay as well and shipping can be fairly reasonable as they are not that heavy. Thread cutting is possible but more difficult. Don't get a fixer upper unless you have the equipment and skill to rebuild it, spend a bit extra and get one in good shape. |
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| tmuir |
First thing is to decide what you want to make on the lathe.
If you only ever want to make small toy or model engines you could get a sherline and that will do fine. If you think one do you want to make a TE that could pull people you will need to go bigger. Figure on spending atleast the same amount again on tooling as you spend on the lathe within the first year or so. If you haven't already got a drill press get one of those before you get a lathe. |
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| Michael |
I think I* will take this advice and invest in a drill press and see how things go from there. |
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| andysleigh |
Warco are good
http://www.warco.co.uk/Metalworking-Mini-Lathe-D4121A9297.aspx |
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| 27ace27 |
wow! lots of good stuff here! I will just be using it to make toy steam engine parts like pistons, SV's,flywheels, etc. nothing too big. So I have worked out that I need a drill press, a lathe, and some other machine that I know what it does but don't know what it's called. a mill perhaps?
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| scorpion2nz |
I do not have a dedicated mill but a rather large drill press and a cross slide vice and this does the job for me and i use router bits as mills they are ok for brass.
we all need to think out side the square |
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| tmuir |
You don't need a mill to make toy steam engines. Even model ones you can get away without one , but they do make it easier. Wallace's brother built a complete steam engine just using a power drill held in a vice and files and hacksaw blades. So if your inventive you can get away with minimum tools. If you do end up getting a lathe you will also need a bench grinder to sharpen the cutting tools. |
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| mogogear |
as a small contribution...I had 2 different drill presses in the pact- neither could drill a hole that would make a cylinder bore. They just will drill holes but not precise ones that are required to make mating parts.
I use a lathe to drill holes bu t them trues with reamers..Tooling, tooling , tooling. They all said it - that is what will cost you. I have an older Atlas 618 ( 6x18) with tons of tooling and a milling attachment. I still struggle slowly at expanding my expertise. I was lucky and got alot for under $500..it easily could have cost $750 and I still do not have a quick change tool post or the German profiling tool bits I really want, the round ones!) Watch your local Craigslist AFTER you do some searches on comparison so you will know what you are looking for and know when to jump fast on an item or not. I have found this site to m=be helpful when comparing various Chinese lathes... they all seems to be made the same place- and can be a good starting place or go with old iron and choose a small hobby lathe like Craftsman or Atlas or Unimat.. but go slow and think about how much you really want to learn and how much you really need to make. Study prices and see what things are selling for. Prowl Craigslist.... http://www.mini-lathe.com/Default.htm A good place for basic tooling needed for small lathes http://littlemachineshop.com/ and Little Machine shops comparison of several popular Chinese lathes - side by side. Very handy --as they are all made a the same factory. And most have tooling available many places. http://www.littlemachineshop.com/Info/minilathe_compare.php Some lathe tips http://www.lathes.co.uk/page13.html |
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| alan2525 |
You can often use a lathe as a small milling machine by fitting a milling attachment to the cross slide and holding an endmill in the chuck or a collet.
It is true that the cost of the lathe is just the beginning but don't be put off by thinking you'll need to spend 20 times that on tooling. Be aware you'll probably need to invest in more tools as your skills progress but to begin with if you are just performing basic processes in the lathe, facing up, turning down to size, drilling etc, the price of the tools you'll need wont be huge. |
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| Michael |
Is it also feasible to get a milling machine and do small turning work on this. If I was to invest in either one or the other a mill or a lathe which would be the better to use for most functions? | ||
| tmuir |
Get a lathe before a mill. I had my lathe for a year before I bought a mill and my mill for 9 months before I used it. Now I've set the mill up I use it more often but my lathe still does 90% of the work and my mill 10% |
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| alan2525 |
The good thing about a Mill is that you can use it to produce tools, fixtures and fittings for use on the lathe too!
The problem with all of these tools though, there is a mighty learning curve and it can be off putting at first. When you first buy a lathe you'll be surprised at all those things you can make that you couldn't have even attempted at first! Lathes can do a lot more than just produce cylindrical items too, a workpiece can be fitted to the cross slide and flycutter fitted into the chuck, a great way of facing a part, in effect using the lathe as a mill. You can also use a milling attachment and fit a drill chuck in the lathe for super precise drilling jobs. Drilling holes in a lathe is great and for perfectly circular holes of precise size with a great finish a boring head or boring bar can be used, easy to bore holes up to whatever size your lathe can swing over the bed! |
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| alan2525 |
Some small lathes can also be setup so you can use them as a small milling machine too, the problem with these kinds of setup, if you need to do a small turning job and the lathe is set up as a Mill you need to spend some time dismantling the machine and then setting it up for turning. This is off putting and dedicated machines are so much more convenient to use. Most of the time spent using a lathe is working out how to machine the part, which stage to do first, how to hold the part etc. You can do most of what a mill will do, using a lathe, but you can't do what a lathe will do on a mill - if that makes sense... Unless you have a CNC Mill and a tool plate setup with lathe tools, drills etc fixed to the toolplate on the machine bed. Then you can spin the workpiece in the chuck and use the machine like a vertical lathe! |
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| GUTMACH |
Lots of good advise given, can't add too much to what already said.
My favorite sites for machining related stuff: www.littlemachineshop.com www.use-enco.com http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/ www.grizzly.com I own a Harbor Freight mini mill, with a R8 spindle. I am pretty happy with it, after doing some tweakings. I much rather have a Tree or Bridgeport knee mill, but just do not have the floor space for it. Some local community colleges offer classes for entry level machining, something to look into. Wayde |
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| Cedge |
AZ
I've been where you are and the choices were quite daunting at the time. Here are a few things to consider. Space.... how much room do you have to give to a shop. Budget.... Lathe prices are all over the map so set your budget and buy within it. Power... what kind of incoming power is available. Running a 220 volt line can get expensive and phase conversion to run a 3 phase machine is even more so. I've only got 110 volt service available so that limited my choices for equipment. Intent... if you can really limit your projects to small stuff, a Sherline is fine equipment. However, I soon found that my desire for larger projects would be limited by such a small lathe. You can do small work on a larger lathe but you can't do larger stuff on a small one. You'll hear die hard machinists say you need old American iron to do anything. Don't get sucked in.... at least not yet. We'd all love to own an old Southbend and a Monarch EE is nirvana if you can go there, but old iron is just that.... OLD. Wear and tear come with the territory and cause unwanted headaches for the novice who doesn't have the time, knowledge or money to do the needed repairs. We all hear about the guy who bought a pristine 1936 Monarch with 1000 hrs for $1000.00, but if you are like me.... your luck isn't that good...LOL. I've used Chinese iron and it has met my needs along the way. A bit of advice on this front will save you some problems. Just be aware that these machines will require a bit of hands on time to tweak them for best operation. There are numerous sites on line where you can get advice on the hows and whys, as well as a huge number of places to find modifications that increase their capabilities. Don't shop for the lowest price. Quality varies according to what the importer is willing to pay. The cheapest price is a sure to get you the least quality. I bought my first mini lathe and mini mill from www.micromark.com and paid a bit more than the average, but the difference in fit and finish was well worth the extra expense. I've recently upgraded to what is known as a "C4" version of the mini lathe and couldn't be happier with a purchase. Give me a PM if you'd like to talk further. Steve |
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| alan2525 |
Some of the Chinese import lathes have a known issue with the variable speed control, many sellers sell the lathe with a US made circuit board replacing the chinese part. There's information on the interent and the lathes will be advertised as such, which goes to show that the lathes may look the same but there are subtle differences between the lathes the dealers are selling.
Also the lathe off the shelf will have a lot of slop and backlash when you receive it, this can be reduced by careful setup of the machine, however it can be very off putting when you go to a trade show and the hand wheels flop around even on the lathes thay have on display. Once you've owned the lathe a little while you'll become used to making adjustments and minimising the backlash, so you can make precise accurate cuts, with everything well lubricated and moving freely and precisely. Another thing to bear in mind is the cost of tooling, if you go to a show there will be lathes twice the size as the one you were first looking at, for not a lot more than the price of the smaller lathe, but bear in mind it'll cost money to get tooled up, even with the basics. |