| Archive for The Unofficial Mamod and Other Steam Forum The Original Unofficial Toy Steam Forum Established 2006 The biggest, most popular steam forum around! Accept NO imitations! We have a growing community of regular posting members who chat about all aspects of toy and model steam. |
| Spule 4 |
Mamod loco rebuild and an MSS questionAll:I am in the process of rebuilding my Mamod loco I bought new back in 1985 or so. In the 1980s, I added the Sidestreet Bannerworks meths burner, Shirley safety valve (broken in 1991-2 when the loco was stored), Goodall water injector, and a lubricator that sat in the top of the steam dome. So far, I have the frame airbrush painted, with new gaskets and PPS wheels. I did the sanding of the reverser and pistons using the tips from the 16mm e-group. I popped one piston out, minimal wear from the lubricator, so they will be re-used. Next is the new boiler (mine was shot, of course I find this out after ordering a safety valve from PPS, so now I will have two) from IP, lubricator and bufferplates are in the post from the UK, and should be here Stateside shortly. The frame runs great on 20-40 PSIG compressed air. First time to do so since at least 1991 if not before. Runs smoth both slow and FAST, so I am sure the IP regulator will be an added benefit. Mine was controlable back in the day, and I see now this was the exception Vs. the rule. Actually, my loco (red, passenger set) did not have many of the commont complaints that I have read, it was a good little loco. Also, it is a bit different than a few I have seen online, the sightglass was held in with screws and the lettering on the rear cab wall was different, just a MADE IN ENGLAND and no other markings. What is the experience with MSS locos? I saw the thread on the one here that was less than flattering about some construction issues and missing bits. I really like their saddle tank model they have introduced. Of course, a PPS Janet would make much more sense but hey, when has a hobby been logical? Thanks- Garrett |
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| tmuir |
I have had no experience with the MSS locos but recently rebuilt a Mamod SL2 loco and was quiet pleased with the results.
Did you say your boiler is shot and you have ordered a new silver soldered boiler? I would be interested to hear how that works out as in the future I was thinking of getting one and a butane burner for it. You probably have already read my thread about restoring my SL2 loco but incase you havent here is the link. http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/about1251.html |
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| Spule 4 |
Yes, read your post with interest, thanks. I will post what I find on the boiler. On mine, the second "bung" (whistle location on the stock loco) came loose in the boiler, with the water injector valve in it. Reqired destruction of the boiler and a vice to get it out, it was VERY stuck. I did notice you painted your wheels. I did mine with high temp black along with the frames. Garrett |
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| oldstuff |
Welcome to the forum Garrett. Tmuir and other locomotive fans here to help. Enjoy! | ||||
| SPOKESMAN |
Welcome to the forum Garret, we have a lot of live steam locomotive enthusiasts on here I am sure can help you!
Mike |
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| yosa |
Garrett, Welcome to the forum mate. 
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| tmuir |
I've painted the wheels on my Lady Anne just used regular enamel.
I was going to paint the wheels on my Mamod but never got around to it. The pics with them coloured in were done in photoshop just to get an idea what they would look like. Wish I had painted them but they are covered in oil now and cant be bothered to degrease them so I can paint them now. |
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| Sandman |
Welcome aboard Garrett.
I'm sure you'll find all the help you'll need right here. There is a wealth of experience that is shared freely and you'll find a bit of humour too. I see you stay in Nashville. I was there recently. I loved it. Out of all the sites ect, I enjoyed most of all the morning we spent in Tootsies bar. We had a few beers and listened to a great singer called Deirdre Riley. Enough of the memories. Welcome mate. Hope you stick around and enjoy the forum. Sandman. |
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| yosa |
Just a thought SM, shouldn't your Avatar be a steam trunk? 
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| Mamodman123 |
I'm not a great fan of the MSS loco's , but i'm more of a traditionalist really Mamod or nothing for me.
I've restored a couple of Mamod loco's Rosa and Dougie aswell as the normal ones. You can get them running well,or not so well. I'd suggest getting another spring on your steam block at the front, you can't really afford to get any leaks from the front valve. Also make sure everything around the pistons is done up tightly, but not too tight enough to snap anything. As for your boiler, I suppose if you are going to buy a new one then I wouldn't go overboard, just stick with the standard one from PPS. 
If you need any help, then the above loco has caused me enough problems to write a book about 
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| yosa |
Really wish I'd seen Rosa at Leicester MM. She feels like family now. 
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| Mamodman123 |
LOL Next year Yosa for definate!!!! I'll have a tender by then aswell! I'll see how many coaches I can pull aswell 
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| MTA |
Garrett, I have an MSS loco, so fire away with your questions!! | ||||
| SPOKESMAN |
Just a reminder . . . Sunday February 3rd 2008 . . . .
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| Mamodman123 |
YEs put it on your Liverpool Calender Yosa! Mum put a hairdressing apointment on my Palace centenery calender! I was mad at her 
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| Sandman |
You'll see her in the movie Yosa.
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| Mamodman123 |
Aye! some good footage there, it's taken a while to bring her up to scratch. I can now live comfortably knowing I can face any challenge in life
I've lost my arm... that's nothing compared to the dark days of Rosa
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| Spule 4 |
Thanks for your tourist dollars, they are getting ready to really gouge the tourists with a convention center bond shortly however. Been here 12 years myself. The city has changed greatly in that period. |
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| Spule 4 |
What are the drawbacks of the MSS locos? The spring, mine has a single one and a nut retaining it, it is not of the later design. The idea of "milling" has worked well, no leaks at 40 PSIG. I am getting signs of oil blow out at the reverser-frame joint so some more "milling" would be needed. Too tight and the frame warps. What is the drawback with the aftermarket boiler? All copper construction, heavier weight, silver soldering, regulator, higher pressure safety valve, injector, and a proper sight glass all seem like plusses from me, and from others in the 16mm fold? Granted, the boiler itself is about GBP 20, but to add the regulator is double that and you still have the sightglass fault, the need for the plug to the extant steam line in the dome, and a soft soldered boiler...and buy the new safety valve and injector (if you did not have them already). ....am I missing something? Thanks! |
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| Spule 4 |
Thanks, if it is the saddle tanker, can you post a photo from dead top on, I need to figure out the dome arrangement. Thanks! |
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| tmuir |
There is nothing wrong with the silver soldered boiler. It is far superior than the original one.
Only downside is you have to drill a few holes in the bodywork to fit the sight glass and regulator and it costs a lot more. But then quality always costs more. I think MM was more saying the original boilers are much cheaper and do the job which is true but with a silver soldered boiler you can run on gas and not worry about the soldering melting. If / when my soft soldered boiler gets to the point of being unrepairable I will be buying the silver soldered one. |
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| Mamodman123 |
Pretty much, I can't see the need for a silver soldered one myself. Especially as i'm running on meths. I just think the original style soft soldered boilers do the job! 
It's up to you, I just see the other boilers as VERY expensive! A silver soldered boiler won't make your engine run any better! Also the solder will never melt with water inside the boiler! |
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| tmuir |
They are 17.5% cheaper for us as we dont have to pay VAT on it.
It is any expensive boiler but remember included in that 100 pounds is a uprated safety valve 9 pounds,steam regulator 25 pounds and water top up valve 7 pounds. Extras worth 41 pounds so boiler realy is only 59 pounds which I will still grant you is still more expensive than standard boiler by a bit more than 2 1/2 times. |
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| Mamodman123 |
I can see what you mean but it won't make the engine fun any better, unless your original boiler is fubar? The money would be better spent on some decent wheels and an unpgraded regualtor
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| tmuir |
You get the upgraded regulator with the boiler MM
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| Mamodman123 |
No, the reverse block! |
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| MTA |
Mine is only the tank version, not the ST. 
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| Roly Williams |
Well ... why don't you?
Only half joking. If not a book then at least an article in S.T.E.A.M. or something along those lines 
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| Mamodman123 |
maybe I will at some point Roly! I don't want to sound too "bitter" about the whole experience though, as painful as it was, I enjoyed it quite a lot
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| Titan |
I think in general a silver soldered boiler is a good idea just from the point of view of being more robust - suprisingly you might find that with a water top up valve and the ability to refuel on the go, you actually tend to have a higher risk of running dry as you can get out of sync with your water / meths fill ups.
I have not told any one this but I accidentally ran Titan dry at least once by mistake at STIA, but just squirted some more water in and carried on as if nothing had happened. I must say I really do not like the idea of the regulators on these boilers which effectively take a feed from the whistle bush. If you want an aftermarket regulator I would use a Mike Chaney type - not only is it a simple bolt on arrangement with no butchery of the body required, but it uses the original dome, and as the extra pipes pass under the boiler through the flames you get extra superheat too. I cannot help thinking that taking a feed at the end of a boiler closer to the waterline is going to cause more priming when the boiler is full and the water is surging from end to end as the loco rocks about on its merry way round the tracks. High up and in the middle is where you want to take your feed and the original arangement does just that! |
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| Mamodman123 |
Never really thought about it like that titan! You have a point about the feed being too close to the water line! Quite a bit of water gets through to the cylinders as it is! With these new regulators it must be worse?
I have one of those Chaney type regulators in my box of bits I removed it because I was trying to make it as simple as possible for my first loco!
No soft soldered boiler will "melt" if there is a bit of water left in there! I feel it would take some time under heat for the solder to melt, if at all to be perfectly honest! I can't see a mamod boiler ever spliting under pressure, they are tested to over 100 psi and the mamod safety valves pop up at 14
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| Spule 4 |
Expensive? A bargain. Price any other model boiler out there. GBP100/$200 US (before VAT) and with the added bits, better to boot. I ran the replacement boiler past a model boiler builder/tester and he said he could not make an identical boiler for his cost, nevermind the added bits such as the regulator, safety valve and injector. [quote="Titan"]I must say I really do not like the idea of the regulators on these boilers which effectively take a feed from the whistle bush. I cannot help thinking that taking a feed at the end of a boiler closer to the waterline is going to cause more priming when the boiler is full and the water is surging from end to end as the loco rocks about on its merry way round the tracks. quote] Yes, but it is still high up. Many models, including an old 3/4 scale model we had take the water from one end. Not overfilling is required tho. Honestly, I hate the visual appearance of no dome in the model with the new boiler.
The idea of a "double spring"makes little sense, as the current spring is heavy and when completely compressed, an absolute bear to get on and get both washers and the nut without launching something accross the room. Once on, you cannot see the bolt through the spring, so I am not sure how much more spring one could get in there. A layer of steam oil is required too for proper operation. The problem with the Mamod reverser is fixable if you follow the 16mm E group suggestions of milling/smoothing. Mine did not "leak" 23 odd years ago when new, and now with compressed air after milling (I did have some scoring), does not now. My card has been charged, I think a boiler is on its way... Thanks for the thoughts guys! |
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| Mamodman123 |
I don't have access to a Milling machine so I made sure it was as flat as possible and literally squashed 2 springs on there! It was a pain, I held it down while someone else screwed the lever on! I just thought I have to get this as tight as I can! You don't need it to be steam tight to 1 million PSI just enough so it doesn't leak under operation!
Does anyone know what the reverse blocks from PPS are like? I guess having it machined into the block is a lot better than flat metal? Mine has an oiler too, doesn't ever seem to use too much oil, I guess the use is marginal? |
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| Spule 4 |
The "milling" idea is to use a flat surface and 1500 or so WD paper. Seems to work for both of us? I gotta clean up the frame to block area, or cheat and use a gasket material. All I can say is the piston wear in my Mamod was minimal when I checked it this week, and I had the dome top lubricator that left little to be desired (dribble down the pipe, and no refill under steam). So maybe it works? Anyone found Mamod pistons that were worn out? Some claim that the aftermarket cylinders are overkill, others swear by them tho. BTW, how do you post photos on this forum, I find no way of uploading? |
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| Mamodman123 |
Ah that kind of milling my dad has a special "stone" thats completely flat that i used on my block! Worked a treat!
Yes well you can't fe-fill this one, mine works by the steam "carrying" oil through into the cylinders, not sure how well it works though... I have upgraded pistons and they are really really good! You'll get a lot more pulling power with them and get the loco to run at slower speeds! I have another loco with mamod pistons that are just as good running wise, gets going easier, can't pull as much and are rather leaky where the piston rod comes out of the cylinder. A sign of a good loco when running is only seeing steam from the chimney stack! For photos you'll need a photobucket account www.photobucket.com sign up for free and upload your images there. then use the [IMG] link and cut and paste it into a normal forum post
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| tmuir |
Excuse my ignorance but what is the 'Mike Chaney type' regulator. Can you post a picture of it and secondly where do you get it from? |
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| Mamodman123 |
It's this one Tony Well the one I saw on Titan looks like this: 
You have to revise your pipework Tony!
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| Spule 4 |
Do other accounts work such as Flickr? |
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| Mamodman123 |
I'd have thought so, try it aslong as you can get some sort of a link up here it will work!
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| Spule 4 |
Feed pipe from the dome, to the regulator, then out to the cylinders? Cool.....yes, where do you get them from. |
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| Mamodman123 |
Yes from the dome into the regulator then to the reverse block! They allow A LOT of superheating!
Not sure where to get them, I think Titan told me that they stopped making them...Mine came on a loco but I ripped it out 
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| tmuir |
You want to trade it or sell it MM? | ||||
| Mamodman123 |
The handle has been shortened. Not sure on the working condition of it. Pipe work is long gone too 
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| Roly Williams |
Yes, it should work with Flickr or any other hosting site. I use FotoPic or even my own web site. All you need is a URL to copy and paste into your posting. If you use the URL button at the top of the page you get just a link but if you use the Img button you get the image within the message. I've never used photobucket but I gather the advantage is that they supply self contained html code to paste into your posting. This is not required if you use the URL or Img buttons. Just click the URL (or Img) button, paste your URL then click the same button again. I hope this all makes sense. If in doubt - experiment. You're not likely to do any harm, you just might get a strange looking post if you get it wrong! |
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| tmuir |
Pipe work is easy to replace.
Well..... possible to replace.
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| Mamodman123 |
Listen i don't want anything for it, pm me your address and i'll send it out to you, ican't remember if i have the union nuts or not either, whatever i canfind i'll send to you! PM me your address when you're ready
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| Titan |
I did most of my Mamod modifications in the Late '80s early '90's.
At that time Mike did a whole range of upgrades, including regulator, lubricator, pistons, silver soldered copper boiler, meths burner and probably a few more. He sold quite a number of these so they are often found on second hand mamod locos dating from this time. - Incidentally the lubricator and burners that IP and the like sell look virtually identical to the Mike Chaney design, so whether he sold out to them or not I don't know. The boilers are different mind. I have no idea when he stopped making stuff. The original mkI regulator which Titan has is a little gem - a proper two hole disc type regulator, which is quite intricate. Mike did not make them for very long since he could not sell them for enough money to cover the time needed to make them. So the mk2 version (which I think is the one mm has) was based on a needle valve. The earlier regulator would go from shut off to fully open in about 1/4 of a turn, so you could have a long handle that stuck out of the side of the cab slightly. With the MkII needle valve type, you may need to do one or more complete turns, so the handle had to be much shorter to enable it to be turned round completely inside the cab. |
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| Mamodman123 |
The regulator I have would go round once Titan its easier than the front block I guess, but i'm not hacking Rosa to bits again
so you're welcome to it Tony
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| tree ted |
Re: Mamod loco rebuild and an MSS question
Hi Garrett Welcome to the forum. Sorry Ive not been on all week but Monday the bits finaly arrived from IP, been playing 00 trains on tuesday and the dragon had to be taken out last night as it was THAT day. Your Mamod sond exactly the same as mine that I am currently rebuilding. If I correct its an SL3 from the mid 1980's. Ive fitted an IP regulator the pipe runs back along the whole length of the burner so the steam is super heated, new cylinders, water top up valve and a lubricator. (Tmuir yoour right about the pipe being bent the wrong way and a b*stard to fit!) Im just waiting on 1 more coat of top paint for the body work, new decals (still strugling) and a new tank for my old gas burner then its time to stand well back and see what happens. Steve |
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| Mamodman123 |
Re: Mamod loco rebuild and an MSS question
Hopefully it all goes well for you Steve. These can be VERY annoying when they don't perform, but quite the opposite when they do
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