Mamod or Wilesco?

col · Mamod or Wilesco?

Hi guys
I was browsing earlier and looked at some wilesco engines too,and found i quite liked the look of the wilesco s ,as i do the Mamod,my question is , what is the difference between the two,is it in production quality or how they run,or is it just a preference on looks?very curious to hear your opinions as temptation rears its head again

col

Mamodman123

ooo controversal this subject Col

Wilesco to me = cheap tatty lego models!

They look plasticy, run on solid fuel, I just hate them with a passion

, but everyone already knew that

If you wonder from Mamod, go for Bowman models or SEL

both didn't make mobiles though

col

I think your hinting about wilescos there MM

just wondered though,i used my meths burner to fire a tablet burner on my mamods,could the same thing be done with the wilescos?

col

Knowsnothin

Its just down to personel choice col
I dont like Wilesco's or the Mamod SP range
If you like em go for it
You could also add Meccano and mersey models
To MM's list ..........

Mamodman123

col

probably gets too hot? didnt think of that,a good reason not to then eh?

how do they run? are they blowing steam from everywhere or do they go ok?

col

Mamodman123

col

im picking up a slight dislike in your answers there MM,i wonder if anyone has pics or vids of these to see them running?again just curiosity on my part,i may be wrong but there seems to be a lot of them about,or is it just me?i noticed while browsing what seemed to be a lot of different bits and pieces with them,again it might just be me showing my newness to steam

col

Scruffyroller

I like my Wilescos. Out of the box they can be quite garish and look more "tinny" then they actually are. In operation they are totally different from the Mamods that sit and spin over at a high rate of knots - which of course is part of the charm - a Wilesco you can leave with the regulator cracked open and the engine just gently turning over. Nothing nicer than sitting in the garden watching the crank weights bob round and round and the piston and valve slowly going to and fro and the exhaust gently easing into the sky. Sat like that they can run quite a long time if you keep the burner topped up with (nasty solid) fuel.

Mamodman123

col

thanks for the pics scruffroller, they seem to have a more showy or complicated works look about them to me?as if there are more moving parts to them,or am i being too new

col

col

Scruffyroller

Nope, you are right, have a look at http://www.wilesco.de/wilesco/us/produkte.html They all use double acting cylinders with a slip eccentric on the crankshaft to change direction. Drive to the wheels is by a gear train and the crank itself sits in bearings that have oil holes for lubrication.

Mamodman123

Governor is just a just a rich mans speed regualtor isn't it?

they do work! as far as I know

. I'm far from a Wilesco expert but i've seen a few in the flesh and I wasn't impressed by the looks

James has a couple of video's of a Willesco in action on his website, they look to run smoothly and quietly. Albeit a little boring for me I think.

col

Thanks for that scruffyroller, im sure ill start to understand those drawings eventualy,

it seems to me that wilesco s are trying to represent a more realistic aproach to their engines,makes them more interesting i think,thats not to say mamods arent MM

love those too,but they are catching my eye i must admit

col

Mamodman123

http://pic5.piczo.com/mamods/?g=18123174&cr=5

check out the bottom video from James' site.

the problem is, they out of the box the rollers and traction engines are horrible. Scruffy has put loads of work into his and they look great

Mamod are a toy steam company, and I don't think they ever wanted them to be realistic Col, that's what i like about them

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/VINTAGE-WIL...ategoryZ14737QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

That to me looks like cheap plastic rubbish

nothing to clean on them, so what would i do? I like to get my hands dirty with brasso

col

I was just about to ask if the bottom one was it,

i know what you mean when you say about the looks,it does look different,and mamods have a better quality look about them,but im still finding the more bits on them interesting,just wondering also what scruffy has done to improve his?

col

Mamodman123

He's painted it added some signs etc! Made it look very nice Col!

I'm off anyway

Switch off the lights on your way out and lock up

col

ok im going to browse for a bit, ttfn

col

SPOKESMAN

They make some very good engines - mobiles and stationaries - all there best machines use double acting cylinders with slip eccentric piston valves. The mobiles are excellent - as for the sationaries, a piston valve version is a must a opposed to an oscillating cylinder engine on some of the lower specced models. Detailing and features are high on the Wilesco engines. Basically some like them, some dont, I do, - well apart from some of their twee looking tools and very small stationaries. Everyone should have one.

This lot may help Col . . . .

D405 TRAKTOR AND D455 VERTICAL ENGINE

MooseMan

Hi, I have a D45 (now D455) like Spokesman.....in fact it was my first engine, I've owned it from new since 1978. It still runs like clockwork, and I now run it with a Mamod meths burner rather than the solid fuel tray - no problem whatsoever.

I also have the steam roller, and I find this a very satisfying engine to run. IMHO it runs better than the Mamod rollers (sorry guys), although I do think the Mamod rollers are better looking.

Wallace

Hi Col.

My first ever engine (7 months ago) was a choice between SE2a, Sp4, and a Wilesco. My brother and father both owning mamods as kids, when the toys were popular, led me to SE2a.

It truly is a personal choice.

For me, lack of fuel tablets here lead me to meths operated engines.
Hence Mamods.

I don't mind one or 2 of the Wilesco mobiles, ie Mikes blue traction engine.

The more realistic running of a Wilesco by not using oscilating (sp??) cylinder is nice. But then if I wanted such an engine, I'd go for an older Bing or something.

But really, for me, and for a variety of reasons, including parts availability through ebay, I love the Mamods.

I will admit, any German maker has it over Mamod when it comes to tools/accesories, Wilesco included.

But it's all personal opinion

sparky

i like collecting any toy or real steam. they were made to be toys sometimes that what they turn out to look like i dont mind the wilescos i now have a roller (old smokey) and the old style meths burner traction engine. my first steamer to my collection was the roller

Scruffyroller

In my humble opinion the canopy ruins the traction engine, it's OK on a Mamod but even then I think they look better without.....

My roller is pretty modified... cut down roof, repainted to represent a Aveling & Porter, motion cover fitted, it's also had a total mechanical overhaul and I had no trouble at all getting parts. I do agree "out of the box" the Mamod roller is a much better looking engine.

The traction engine is assembled from a kit, and merely repainted and some rubber tyres fitted.

Again as standard I think the Mamod has it for looks.

yosa

Impressive collection scruffyroller.

sparky

they do look better made like you do it mate

Manxman

I like both and for different reasons. However I also have Marklin, Mss, Mastrand, Wells and on and on. All of the engines seem to have different resons for liking them.

But when all is said and done. It was a Mamod Traction Engine as a kid in the 1970's and I guess it's still a Mamod TE that will remain my favorite.

col

Thanks for all your answers,more food for thought,but i think mamods are my faves mainly like you have said its a reminder of my childhood

,but i think ill end up getting a wilesco too,just for the different workings thing and i do like em too

and mooseman if my meths burner will swap over all the better

so heres my next question,out of all the wilesco s, which gets the best one to get vote? mobile and static??

col

Mamodman123

Manxman

I can only say mobile but I've never had a Wilesco stationary.

Wallace

I think Mobile.

Mikes blue traction engine I like. Can't recall what the rollers look like.
I do like the look of one members repainted one here, that gives the "realistic old look". Was that scruffyrollers?

col

Dont think i worded it right

i meant to say which model in the mobile is the best one and which model in static is too,out of them is there a favourite or best model,ie the showman,or traction engine?i do prefer mobile but so many to choose from

sorry bout that

col

MTA

The Wilesco Roller is best in the mobiles, and the D455 vertical is a nice one, yet expensive...

Wallace

Griffin

I don't own a Wilesco myself, but I have heard good reports about the D21. It has a hand operated water pump to fill the boiler whilst in steam.
On the downside it is expensive.

Here's one
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BARGAIN-Wil...ategoryZ14737QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

col

Thanks again,good advice as usual

,great links too

col

Griffin

Here's another, this time a D22
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/SPECIAL-Wil...ategoryZ14737QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

As Wallace has already said, the D24 is nice too.

col

I like that griffin,looks like it will power just about anything

col

col

I missed your pics earlier spokesman,good comparison shots there,it shows the difference in quality well,

but i think if wilesco made theirs to a similar quality as mamod,due to all the extra detailing i think it would make them too dear for most of us,a happy medium has to be reached i think,which it seems they have? i do like the roller,the only thing is the canopy does look a little out of place i think?

col

MTA

Those ebay links that Griffin posted up, I bought both my Wilescos off station500uk, free postage from Germany, plus he includes some fuel packets as well, they come direct from the factory within three days

Roly Williams

I think the perennial debate of Mamod v Willesco (or in a wider sense, British v German) is mainly a matter of personal preference. The choice is between engineering quality and looks. Most of the extras on Wilesco (German) engines are mostly for show. Things like the "governor" are purely for show - they don't actually do anything. The gear drive between crankshaft and wheels is theoretically better but, in practice, the matal is so thin it quickly wears out, or rusts if stored in the garden shed. If you are buying new for keeping in a glass case then, by all means, go for Wilesco. However, I think it's significant that you rarely see an old Wilesco in restorable condition. I have three Wilescos and two Bings in my collection but I feel no urge to buy more.

col

Good insight there roly thanks for that,is the drive cog replaceable?and how often used does it wear out?i ask becouse im still tempted to add one to my new collection just to have the different version,

col

tmuir

I've never owned a Wilesco but I've looked at many in various hobby shops. In Australia if the model shops stock live steam it is almost always Wilesco.
From what I've seen I would agree with Roly.

Wilesco have the 'Bling' (never thought I would use that word in the same sentence as model steam) but Mamod seems to have the durability.
Or maybe its just that Mamod adopted the KISS principle so their engines survive the test of time and Wilesco's don't as much.

If I was buying an engine for display I would get a Wilesco to run a Mamod

Roly Williams

Griffin

MooseMan

Roly, like your new Avatar!

My Wilesco Roller dates from the late seventies, and spent most of its life as an ornament above the deep fat fryer in a bar in Amsterdam, before it came into my hands a few years ago.

The gear was absolutely fine, but the boiler was shot, having several pinhole leaks. I've replaced the boiler and run the engine lots of times, and the gear holds up fine. I agree it is VERY thin though....one of the projects I'd like to do is to replace the whole gearing with something a lot more solid.

Roly Williams

Thanks Odilon. The pic was one I entered for a competition and failed miserably, so I thought I'd put it to some use.

Gear cutting machines are expensive and even gear cutting attachments for lathes are not cheap. A clock maker should be able to do the job but their time doesn't come cheap either, unless you happen to have one as a friend.

Mamodman123

It wouldn't suprise me that Willesco's break. I've heard a few things about them, that broken steam pipe that happened to Erik, and a few other things like leaks.

I saw one on a table not so long ago and it just looked cheapily made/put together.

They would be ok as door stops, but if you want to run them a few hundred times i'm not sure they could take it

MooseMan

Can't work out what or who that picture reminds me of....a painting I've seen maybe? You also look a bit like Socrates in that one!

Ah no, got it! Archimedes! How appropriate!

Anyway, I'm not going to have gears cut or something like that...it'll be a "let's see what's in the Bits Bucket" job!

Scruffyroller

Mamodman123

Wallace

Good thread this one, for and against, re mamods and wilescos.
As mentioned earlier, I have a couple of Wilescos I like.

But my fondeness for Mamods means my tight budget won't lead me to buy other models. There's just too many Mamods to collect

By the sounds of things Wilescos are for show, Mamods are to go. As a collector who steams engines often, Mamods are the better choice for me.

As some have said, and others have shown, it's all personal preferences.

I'd like to know what the boilers on Wilescos are made of since Mooseman mentioned pinholes.

One day I will probably get a Wilesco roller/traction engine, for display, and I would like one double action/valve thinghy engine in my collection.
But that's down the track

tmuir

Roly Williams

MTA

Wallace

Thanks guys.

col

Thats interesting?

so i take it the longevity of wilesko s boilers sound short compared to mamod?or is there a reason why some pin hole and some dont?

col

Wallace

MooseMan

It's zinc depletion, usually aggravated if the boiler is put away with water in it. It is actually good for a brass boiler to be fired up regularly, as this has a mild annealing (softening) effect on the brass, and prevents fatigue cracking.

The pinholes in my Wilesco were all in the "neck" of the boiler where the sight glass is....must be a weak spot. The new boiler (from Chasteam) is very strong, but not as brightly plated....it has a slightly "blued" look about it that I quite like!

Mamodman123

Mamodman123

MooseMan

Could be....hard to tell under the nickel plating. I didn't keep the old boiler.

I do like my two Wilescos, but I don't think I'll but any more. I owned a D32EL for about a month, that engine was just WAY to scary for me.

Griffin

col

You have me thinking now mooseman

,why scary too ??

col

Mamodman123

col

Cool

the bigger the better isnt it?

ill go take a look on their site and see which one it is

col

Mamodman123

http://images.google.co.uk/imgres...Den%26lr%3D%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DG

that one isn't it?

col

Thanks MM but the pic was a thumb nail, couldnt make much out

and it wasnt listed on their site

col

Mamodman123

Griffin

Sadly it is no longer made.

Thanks for the link MM

Griffin

Just click on the thumbnail to enlarge it Col

col

I did,it just cleared the page and left the thumbnail

col

Mamodman123

col

Found it thanks MM .That is sad to hear, its a beast and looks fantastic,do all those dials and things work? but electric?? defeats the object of wanting steam a bit doesnt it?

col

Mamodman123

SPOKESMAN

col

Talking of kettles,

slurp

col

Mamodman123

SPOKESMAN

Just off for one, back in a min . . . in the meantime look at this beauty!

Mamodman123

[quote="SPOKESMAN"]Just off for one, back in a min . . . in the meantime look at this beauty!

Very nice TE1a there Mike

SPOKESMAN

[quote="Mamodman123"]

Mamodman123

LOL

col

MooseMan

The D32EL scared me because it was powerful to the point of being uncontrollable....at full throttle I was worried that the thing would just shake apart, and if you throttled it down the pressure in the boiler just skyrocketed instantly, and the safety valve would blow off with an enormous plume. Also, having 3.5KW of electric heating going on near such a volatile source of steam and water felt just too risky, and it kept tripping out my mains! I sold it on with a small profit after a few weeks, to a guy in Italy if I remember correctly.

I believe Owen on this group still owns one....I think he controls his with a simmerstat (big rheostat used in electric cookers).

Mamodman123

col

It certainly gets my imagination going there mooseman

im picturing something similar to a tom and jerry cartoon steam engine wobbling and expanding

sort of takes the fun out of it if it causes you to worry that it might fuse the house too

col

Griffin

Roly Williams

MooseMan

Mamodman123

Looks a smooth engine there Mooseman

SPOKESMAN

Very dangerous kettles by the sound of it!

Wallace

Wallace

JensenSteamMan

Col,

If your looking for a toy steam engine that is unsurpassed in quality, very powerfull compared to mamods and Wilescos, simple lines, and an excellent value, I would reccomend Jensen Steam Engines. You would love a Jensen #75! They are dry fuel, but all it would take to change it to running on meths is a different fuel tray

Jensen boilers are Silver Soldered. soft solder is NOT used in the assembly anywhere. They are very very durable, excellent runners and put out alot of power!

Just to give you an idea, a Jensen #75 has the same about of displacement (space inside cylinder bores) as a Wilesco D22 does!!
And a Jensen #75 is about half the price as a D22.... as well as being built ALOT better. Seems like a no brainer eh?

Check out www.JensenSteamEngines.com

I belive you can get Jensens in the uk through Forest Classics if I'm not mistaken?Jensen can also wind 220volt for European customers if they ask.

Cheers,
Casey

SPOKESMAN

The Unofficial Jensen and Other Model Steam Forum?

JensenSteamMan

Hey, the guy is asking about/ looking to get some toy steam engines and hes looking around at Mamod and Wilesco.

Whats wrong with letting him know about a brand that he has never heard of because it is uncommon in Europe, in a thorough post with some facts on Jensen's and since hes obviously looking for a quality model???

Just letting a new fella in on some opinions I have developed due to owning and operating different makes, as well as learning about construction methods and quality of the different brand. Jensen is the one that I have chosen above other toy steam makes, for many reasons.

Happy steaming to all!,
Casey

Wallace

JensenSteamMan

lol

yes, I have talked about Jensen's with ALOT of different people so now I guess it does sound like an ad!

I figured that signature was needed!

Happy steaming!,
Casey

TE1A_man

Don't get me started on this subject, but if you insist,
i perfer wilesco's mobiles, and they're new big stationarys over new mamods any day, but i have a soft spot for mamod's ability to mesh with meccano easily.

tmuir