Meccano Vertical

marmite · Meccano Vertical

Just got back from Wellington having purchased these engines at a recent auction. To be honest I thought I'd give them a miss when they told me what the engines had achieved in the past in similar condition but the words "to be sold without reserve" was too good a temptation. A lowish bid was placed and I was surprised to find I had won both of them!

The polished one was my preferred option to win but it appears to be the one in in the worst condition missing the gears and handle and with minor dents that should come out.

Once I had been advised I won them I thought I might be able to pull them apart and make one unit as complete and original as possible. Is this advisable? The original patina one in my view is the better of the two but has the base with the most paint loss and a Meccano transfer on it which the other hasn't got but has better paint work.

I'm assuming the two water level valves are correct even though different.

Lastly safety valves. They are both different, I can't get the polished ones out so it is off being soaked in penetrating oil. It seems to be round it has the look that it might have been attacked with a file but someone might have had pliers or something use on it over the years. The darker one looks original with a square piece of brass on top of a nice piece of knurling. Am I able to get a reproduction safety valve?

davidcurtis021

very nice

Les

Winning 1 Meccano engine is good, getting 2 from the same auction is extremely good, well done. Hopefully the Meccano officinado's will be able to answer all your questions.

magpie38

superb, well done

Roly Williams

Well done! What did you mean by "lowish bid"?

As you say, the dents should be easily removable. The outer cover is cosmetic and probabky quite thin. I think the gears are standard Meccano so are easily obtainable. The missing handle should be easy enough to make.

I'm not sure about the differences between the valves. They might be original or not. I'm sure the Meccano experts will know.

chenab

Well done - getting one at a time is the way most people do it though

If you are looking at getting one of those going then I'd go for tarnished one for a couple of reasons like it having the better looking safety valve, the gears and the later type of water overflow thumbscrew.

Sadly the gears do go missing - people take them off and use them on models or otherwise loose them. The handle gets removed in some models as well because then you can bolt Meccano to it and bring all the controls to one place.

Both water level valves are original. The petcock is the first type which was soon replaced by the later type (does this give you a hint there might be a problem). In my experience you have to be very lucky for the petcock not to drip under pressure and unlucky for the later type to show the same problem.

The safety valves probably started out looking the same but one has been used a lot and got worn over the years. I have one where the corners have curved and the proper spanner has difficulty gripping on it now.

Safety valves - Mamod ones will fit - Ralph rediscovered this a while back but Meccano probably knew it years ago since I've got a very late engine with a contemporary Malins valve in it.

Again contrats

Tony

Wallace

Very nice. Well done on those wins.

One of the meccano experts can probably help you better, but I am sure the one with the transfer the earlier one, as opposed to the one with the Meccano embossing.

Here is one of my Dad's, without the embossing before it was restored. You can see the style of tap on it (tap is upside down and appears to be missing it's spout)

The tap on your other one I beleive is original for the embossed type.

After it was restored (ignore the blue, it got changed) with a homemade cog and flywheel where you can see the safety valve type. Like you say with a square top.

As far as the question about making one out of the 2, it's up to you

I'm more into running than looking so I'd make sure at least one was working. Best of luck with it. Oh, and the boiler on these is an internal part and they are thin. The outer parts with the dents are just a cover.

Hope that helps

chenab

The petcock type of tap came on both boiler types.

Tony

marmite

Thanks for all the response.

Roly by the time the buyers premium and tax was paid the engines worked out at about 170GBP each. I was really after a Luton Swallow but these two engines just look fantastic compared to the Luton. The auction house wasn't helpful and the telephone description left a lot to be desired on the Meccano engines.

Tony thanks for the information on the safety valve, I've got a Mamod one without a home I'll give it a whirl.

Nice engine that your father has Wallace. Both my engines have the Meccano embossed on the boiler, the transfer I was referring to is the one on the blue base in the middle visible on the first photo.

The next question is how do I remove the white water stain without removing the patina on the boiler surface?

Stitch

Mate,
These are some right tasty engines

Both are in much better condition that I thought. Well done

Stitch

In terms of your water stain, how about trying some club soda and a gentle rub? My mum reckons soda water is good at water stains on metal.

marmite

chenab

Sorry there can be confusion over the transfers - most should have a Meccano Transfer on the base - not sure why those that don't don't other than just having lost it over the years.

Some boilers (early ones) have a the word 'Meccano' as a transfer on the boiler.

Tony

fcrammond

Roly Williams

fcrammond

The standard 1 1/4 gear is 57 tooth and gives a 3:1 ratio with the 19 tooth gear, the 60 tooth version can be used with the 15 tooth gear to give 4:1. The 1929 engine uses a 6:1 ratio with a finer tooth spacing than standard and about 14 teeth on the small gear (=84 on the big?) I can't count it easily as the only example I have that is reasonably accessible is built into a lorry and all the gears are under the cab.The gear tooth spacing looks very similar to the gears inside some of the clockwork motors and the small gear is heavily undercut in a clock pinion style.
F.

fcrammond

The "crankshaft pinion and grub screw" were 4 old pence each and the "driving wheel and set screw" were 6 old pence. Mind you the complete engine was 21 shillings ( a guinea!).

I suspect a replacement set of gears would be quite pricey today.
F.

chenab

The teeth on the big gear is 76 with 12 on the smaller one - they are also at 50dp which is not what the usual Meccano gears are.

They are like hen's teeth at the moment and currently not available as reproductions to the best of my knowledge.

Tony

magpie38

I wish I was so lucky as to own a meccano enigine

well done indeed

KMV

Very nice ... still missing in my small collection ...

Ralph Laughton

Hi Guys,

What with being away on holiday and having an e-mail problem of my own making

, I missed this post until marmite contacted me off list. Not realizing he was from NZ I invited him to the Henley Gathering ....

OK, now I have got my act together. I thought I would point you to this article that provides a workable solution to the gearing problem: http://my-meccano.co.uk/NEWS/60_news_28_05_10.html

As this only give a 3:1 or 4:1 reduction (if you used 15/60 pinion/gear), a second set of gears may be required to increase the power output as the originals give 6:1. However, this will make a gear-less engine useable until some original or reproduction gears are sourced.

Ralph

Wallace

Ralph that is a great solution.

The homemade gear on my Dad's engine was made with brass sheet of the correct thickness, hacksaw, file and a lot of patience.

marmite

Wallace

I know you said it's soaking in vinegar, but is the vinegar on the inside of the boiler, or is there a way to get it in the boiler?

The only thing that works with me when all else fails is vinegar in the boiler and sitting the boiler so that the vinegar is around the stuck joint (in this case upside down)

I try leave it no more than 2hrs max. If it doesn't work, repeat again

Ralph Laughton

tmuir

As Ralph says, try the heating and cooling method.
It may take up to a dozen goes of heating and cooling to unstick it, but I've used that method a number of times with a 100% success rate.
Great buys and for great prices too, congrats

marmite

Thanks for the advise it worked a treat after the sixth attempt. Ooops the bush came out as well, I'll clean it and return it from whence it came.

Tonupbear

Great engines, pleased it worked out for you.

Atticman

Great engines, sadly many people know the value of these in the UK, so bargains (less than half price as these are) are rare