| Archive for The Unofficial Mamod and Other Steam Forum The Original Unofficial Toy Steam Forum Established 2006 The biggest, most popular steam forum around! Accept NO imitations! We have a growing community of regular posting members who chat about all aspects of toy and model steam. |
| Sandman |
Minor RestoAs I said I'm concentrating on the engines I'll be taking to the STIA (hopefully)I'm getting to the end of the SE1 resto. (Waiting for the firebox to dry) This will be my next job. It is a neat little engine in reasonably good condition. Hopefully there will be no snags. I've never done one of these , so if there is anything to look out for please let me know. 
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| yosa |
I like the disc crank SM that'll be a little cracker. 
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| Lewis |
same as mine that one good one sm great smooth runners
there should be a crank disc club  (forgive me about the name)
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| Mamodman123 |
Just keep the nitro mors well away from the engine frame and you can't go wrong 
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| oldstuff |
Great little engine, SM. Do mean to paint anything, like the base...or just
giving the works a good clean? Mild abrasive like brasso and a wet rag will really make it shine. |
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| Sandman |
At the moment I plan on a clean up only.
Hope that's all it needs. 
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| oldstuff |
Yours looks pretty good compared to what I started with. Were it mine, I'd leave
the disk alone and just clean the brass parts and copper strap. Dremel with polishing disk or tip will be handy for areas around the engine frame. Use polishing liquid or paste on the Dremel tips and rinse often as you go lest the loosened muck re-attach itself. Here's a before and after of mine...my disk is a little different...damage to base paint wasn't from cleaning, I think it caught fire once... 
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| Wallace |
Nice engine SM, it'll come up a treat.
Chuck, that MM1was a good buy. Note how the disc writing is different to SM's? The disc crank type didn't come out for long, and there are even variations in those
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| Sandman |
Nice job Chuck.
See what you mean about the discs Wallace. They are totally different. I wonder how long they ran each of them. I wouldn't think it would be very long. Maybe Mike will know. 
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| SPOKESMAN |
Not sure SM, I think the one like yours and Chuck is the earlier post war type. Some post war ones were smooth Like mine. A tough one to date without accurate info from existing models/owners. Certainly date from the post war period. Mazak was used from '53. Pre-war disc cranks were smooth, or so I can tell from the pics I have seen! |
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| SPOKESMAN |
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| Sandman |
Right. So that's three different disc cranks on the Minor.
Any More?????????? |
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| SPOKESMAN |
A least two, maybe three. |
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| Mamodman123 |
Yes the original first one with no marking on it at all! Just a disk! |
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| Sandman |
I take it there would be no paint on the first one??? |
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| SPOKESMAN |
Probably not! |
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| SPOKESMAN |
Maybe some gold or silver. | ||||||
| Mamodman123 |
Its in the "bible" A silver disk.... My 46 flatbase MM1 is like this: 
throw in one of my hobbies SE1 |
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| oldstuff |
Also, notice...opposite mountings!
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| Mamodman123 |
Most minors ive seen are the first picture! | ||||||
| Wallace |
Wow, I didn't notice that. Another difference
Chuck, I'm not sure if this is your MM1, but they were pics from one one ebay a while back I saved them as it was yet another different crank I think 
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| oldstuff |
I'm 99.9% sure it is the same! I remember it the disk
was dark maroon just like that before I cleaned it. |
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| Sandman |
I've just had a bit of luck.
As most members will know, I bought a few engines during my lurking period on the old forums. I was looking amongst my collection for something tonight ,when I noticed the corner of a Mamod box peeking out. I pulled it out and guess what??? Another minor disc crank that I forgot I had.
It's in really good nick and there's hardly a mark on the burner. Even got its stopper. That means I'll have two at the STIA with any luck. 
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| Mamodman123 |
You forgot you had an engine 
Can we have a quick piccy SM? Very strange indeed..... I'm still hoping to pull that boxed SE4 out at some point.... |
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| Sandman |
O.K. MM
The flash makes the laquer look bad but that's coming off anyway. Just look at the rest. I made a good buy sometime I think.
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| Mamodman123 |
Very nice engine SM! I'm not worried about the laquer I'm more worried that you didn't remember you had it
Does it have a decal? Its a lovely little engine SM! |
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| Sandman |
Was going to ask about that MM.
No decal but the firebox looks original but hardly marked. Would that be possible??? |
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| Mamodman123 |
Yes its more common for it not to have a decal on that sort of engine. For some reason Mamod didn't like to put decals on early Minors. I only asked as I thought if it had one it would be in mint condition! I can see that its original from here anyway! Burner has its rubber bung aswell! Very impressive buy! Bet you don't remember how much you paid though
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| Sandman |
I honestly don't remember buying it at all MM.
It must have been way back though. I wouldn't have a clue how much it cost. (Getting senile) Got double the work now getting them ready for the STIA. Just been given the get off the machine look from the missus. Chat tomorrow MM Cya. |
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| Mamodman123 |
Well you'll probably remember it forever now
Oh not the look Chat tomorrow SM! |
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| oldstuff |
Priceless.
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| Wallace |
Nice disc crank SM.
I too am amazed you forgot you had it
I was a bit like that with small car parts, but didn't have to pay for them all, just acquired them from wrecks garbage tip/smash repairs etc What else you hiding mate? Twin MM2? SE4? |
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| Sandman |
Nah! I had a right old look around the collection but nothing else surfaced. What happened was that at first I bought up some engines to work on once I had gained enough knowlege from the forum. These engines were stored at the back of a small cupboard till I had time to work on them. Then Mike came along and got me interested in Bowmans so the first ones kinda got neglected. The minor being so small got hidden behind the rest. It was a nice find though, even if it casts doubt on the ability of my memory.
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| Wallace |
LOL, that's great mate.
Kinda like an investment
When I was about 16, I used to slip the occasional $5 (2 pound) under my mattress, then forget about it. After a long time I'd pull it all out, count it, and be suprised. Kinda like Mr Bean sending himself a birthday card and being excited
Mind you, this was 14yr ago when that much money (2pound) was a lot of money for a 16yr old. Not like the youngins nowadays. They spill/lose that much when opening their wallets
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| Mamodman123 |
Never was a truer word spoken Wallace
It's good that you found that engine SM, I look forward to seeing it too! |
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| yosa |
Maybe Santa is real SM.
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| Sandman |
Jeez Yosa. That never crossed my mind.
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| yosa |
Bet you wish you'd left him a wee dram and a mince pie now.
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| Sandman |
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| Steve_S |
Its a beauty SM! It must have made your day finding that!
(... wonder if there are any Bowmans I've forgotten about? )
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| Mamodman123 |
From now on, if you ever find an engine you forgot about it shall be known as 'Doing a Sandman"
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| Sandman |
My very own claim to fame.
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| Mamodman123 |
I can't imagine it's going to be used much
I'm still looking for that SE4, I thought I put it in the cupboard... maybe it's in the loft
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| Sandman |
Got back into the workshop, and started the clean up of the little engine I rediscovered.
I stripped it down and I would guess that it's only been steamed once or twice. There is only the slightest film of carbon on the bottom of the boiler and the paint under the firebox is not even scorched. The base is unmarked. The firebox is the same. The boiler is showing that pink corrosion in three or four places on both ends. I know we've debated just what this is previously, and came to the conlusion that it could be de-zincing caused by a particular type of water. On looking closely at this boiler, I would say that this corrosion is starting from the outside of the boiler and eating in. If this is the case, it would question the former theory as if it was caused by the water in the boiler, the corrosion would be from the inside out.
That is the only fault I've found with this engine. I've given it the nitromores treatment so I'll know more once I start polishing. More ASAP.
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| yosa |
Good news SM.
Interesting about the boiler, are you going to steam it? |
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| Mamodman123 |
It didn't look to have been fired when i saw it SM! I'm not too sure about the corrosion, could have been kept in a damp place at some point?
Keep us updated
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| Wallace |
Good luck with it SM. As MM said, keep us updated
I really don't know the science of dezinification apart from zinc breaks down in the brass, just leaving the copper. So I would assume it would leave the brass "honeycombed"? My stuffed boiler is pitted on the outside slightly. Not sure what it is like on the inside though. I did have endcaps off, but wasn't looking for any damage at the time
It had white powder deposits on the outside of end caps I have another boiler, pitted, and copper colour. I haven't tested it yet. It's from a MM2. But you are right, you'd think it'd start from the inside of boiler. I've had a few people asking me about it, but other than the link i gave, I really don't know. How it came about with me: *Dirty boiler, known not to be fired in a long time. 25yrs? Had moisture inside boiler for that long. Overall the engine had not been fired much since new though. *White deposits on end caps *After cleaning and polishing the boiler there was ever so slight copper colour in end caps where white deposits were. These spots were also corroded. * Fired engine, water started leaking at about the same time flywheel started to turn so at amx pressure. Very fine mist of water came out of end caps, then got worse. These areas had turned a very strong copper colour after engine was fired. |
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| SPOKESMAN |
Look forward to the end result SM, the detail about the boiler 'corrosion' is a warning to us all to thoroughly dry the boilers of our engines afte a run.
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| Mamodman123 |
Its strange Wallace. All the boilers Ive had have been ok..some have had a bit of corrosion but not enough to make the endcaps leak. Maybe your one had been left somewhere or full of water? But if the corrosion was on the outside then i doubt it is the latter . Unless there was a leak originally from the end cap and it has been seeping out and corroding as it goes?
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| tmuir |
Corrosion that starts on the outside I think is unlikely to hole the boiler unless the boiler is left in a damp spot for years. Water trapped inside a boiler may do it.
Have a look at the condition my Me3 boiler was in when I received it on the outside. It had no overflow plug or safety valve in it so would of dried out on the inside but was obviously stored in a damp place. It had serious corosion on the outside but after a bit of work cleaned up find and I have since fired the boiler with no problems. Here is the link to it. http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/about2085.htm |
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| Mamodman123 |
It willl help if you leave engine with the valves off to stop any water getting trapped. I also have those little packets of gel you get in shoes to dry out the boxes of my engines and keep them dry! | ||||||
| yosa |
Accepted that poor care can lead to corrosion, but why some engines and not others?
Maybe something to do with the quality of the particular batch of brass stock used in the first place.
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| Mamodman123 |
If the laquer stays on them i guess it will protect the boiler a bit better. It might just be the old elements have got to it and its starting to go, like a car and rust really
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| sparky |
i dont think any of mine have got laqcre left on them is it just like an extra lining or soemthing 
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| Sandman |
Good point Yosa. Notice how it's always the boiler ends that it attacks?? Could well be the brass they were made of.
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| sparky |
yea ive noticed that aswell, very good point you two | ||||||
| Wallace |
It is definitely the brass quality too, which is why, for plumbing, they sell "dezincification resitant" fittings now. At an extra cost of course.
Strangely this boiler that leaked was owned by a guy at work, which is why I know the history of it. I just went to the thread I had kept for it, but it doesn't seem to work. But I found another link to the same site, just a different description: 2 quotes from it: Why Dezincification Occurs Copper-zinc alloys containing more than 15% zinc are susceptible to dezincification Conditions favoring dezincification are contact with slightly acid or alkaline water. Not highly aerated, low rates of flow of the circulating liquid, relatively high tube-wall temperatures and permeable deposits or coatings over the tube surface. Not sure what the high-tube wall temperatures means?? Here's the link http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Forms-selective/dezinc-valve.htm I'll get a pic of both of my boilers later, start a new thread in tech tips, or add to an exisitng one there I can't understand why it would corrode from the outside either, unless it did start from the inside, and as it is the loss of zinc, it does "honeycomb" it. Poor quality brass may have been a start for it.??? I will guess and say it did start from inside, and had almost worked it's way through, then me scrubbing and polising it was enough to know off the final surface? Much like rust behind a door in a car. Might be a small dot visible, you start sanding it, then it turns out to be a large area? I might have well been quite obvious on the inside of the end caps, but I am not sure. If I had have been looking for it, maybe I'd see it. But all I did was remove scale slightly for resoldering of an overflow collar. The wost leaking end cap was the one near chimney I didn't remove. |
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| SPOKESMAN |
I think the low tube wall temp refers to the (boiler or oieo) wall being in contact with the liquid at cool temps, thus increasing the reaction process along with the liquid being 'still' or slow moving. | ||||||
| Sandman |
I've been in the workshop all afternoon working on the little engine I found.
Once I started polishing it became apparent that the pink corrosion was indeed starting from the outside in. I've come to the conclusion that this corrosion is oxidisation and is caused by the environment in which the engine is stored. I say that as I found traces of this disease all over the engine including the cylinder block and underneath the boiler where it had been fired. Luckily I have caught this engine in time as the corrosion was confined to the surface of the metal and could be polished out. It did however make the polishing process a great deal more time consuming as I found the affected parts really hard to shift even with the Dremel. So here it is at last. My next one for the STIA. 
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| SPOKESMAN |
Great to see SM - Im bringing mine too - they dont take up much room too!
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| Steve_S |
Positively gleaming SM... it looks great!
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| Griffin |
Bye, that engine has come up well
Nicely turned out, great stuff |
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| Mamodman123 |
Wow thats a lovely minor SM
Its so shiney the camera can't take a picture too well
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| Sandman |
You're right MM. It looks far better under normal light. (Thank God)
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| Wallace |
Well done SM. Came up a treat. | ||||||
| yosa |
It's a beauty SM.
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| Sandman |
Thanks guys.
Got the other one finished today. What a difference, Although this one had obviously been well used there was no sign of the pink corrosion anywhere. This made the clean up a doddle.Came up a treat. Pics later.
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| SPOKESMAN |
Look forward to that SM!
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| Sandman |
Well here it is as promised.
And here they are , ready for the STIA. (I've got to admit I really like these little engines)
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| Mamodman123 |
Wow very nice SM! Certainly cleaned up well
should look good on display
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| SPOKESMAN |
Two!!that just showing off!!
They look terrific!!! |
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| Mamodman123 |
Yeah ummm two are far too many SM
Show off 
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| Steve_S |
What a pair! |