| Archive for The Unofficial Mamod and Other Steam Forum The Original Unofficial Toy Steam Forum Established 2006 The biggest, most popular steam forum around! Accept NO imitations! We have a growing community of regular posting members who chat about all aspects of toy and model steam. |
| IndianaRog |
Mobiles can be habit forming....I am becoming quite enamored with working Rollers and TE's after spending a week with my young grandson and running the wheels off a Wilesco Old Smokey, again and again and again!Having focused on collecting stationaries exclusively until picking up the Wilesco last Nov....I have since picked up a Mamod TE1, Mamod SR1 and Mamod SW1...all wheeled beasties I can't wait to get running for real but waiting on some gaskets at the moment. When cleaning up the Old Smokey, I was amazed at how small it's cylinder/piston actually is...very tiny affair, but very effective apparently with the gearing and flywheel applied. I closely studied my Wilesco Roller vs. my Mamod TE1 and concluded the following even though one a roller other a TE, so some aspects are inherently in the design being simulated: Mamod advantages: - Mamod has far and away better looking wheels...die cast or however made they really look quite attractive and realistic - Mamod frame/metal work seemed thicker, bit more robust (1960's vintage vs. 1980's for Wilesco...but I don't think this aspect has changed). Mamod chrome firebox is a clear winner over Wilesco. - Mamod vap burner is obviously capable of more output, but I will fix that shortly on the Wilesco with an incoming meths burner to fit. As equipped it's easier to access the Mamod burner and insert or remove it by simply lifting the scuttle off and back. - Mamod brass regulator and whistle are beautifully crafted (old style) with no bits of plastic...I REALLY like their looks - Mamod canopy removes for better access/cleaning and is a more robust, attractive affair than the corrogated tin roof look on the Wilesco, though Wilesco supports are nickeled and Mamods are not Wilesco Advantages: - Wilesco gearing vs. Mamod belt seems to enhance the output of a very small cyl/piston and allows for idling in place without moving when desired...possible with Mamod but only when removing spring belt and it's a pain to get back out of wheel groove - Wilesco slide valve engine with built in lubricator operates like a swiss watch, very, very smooth - Wilesco operates at a more scale speed than Mamods I have seen run on videos and it is reversible - Wilesco boiler and fittings are all nickel plated...a personal preference I suppose...but Wilesco also has a nice looking/useful sight glass window porthole that is very well designed...looks impressive and makes monitoring water level easy. - Wilesco chimney removes by unscrewing, making it easy to clean out the smoke box of accumulated oil gunk carried there by steam exhaust - Wilesco flywheel looks more like a flywheel and less like a mini road wheel...also looks more scale like - Wilesco steering (being a roller) works nicely and as I have the walk behind steering cable, I found it easy to control...I never much liked the look of the Mamod steering rod sticking up from the stack during runs, though it probably is very effective. ================= Summary with running experience in hand for the Wilesco and not so for the Mamod... Wish I could meld them together into one whole new mobile keeping Mamod's "look" but enhancing it with some of Wilesco's quite functional "technology". If I could, I would put Wilesco's boiler, engine, flywheel, gearing and steering on a Mamod frame while keeping the Mamod canopy, firebox, valves, burner, scuttle and wheels intact. Just one guy's opinion and with only the Wilesco as a running example at the moment. cheers, Rog |
||||||
| Mamodman123 |
An interesting review on the Wilesco and Mamod mobiles Rog!
I won't bother going into my opinion as we all know it by now. Would be interesting to see how the new Mamod TE1a with the slidevalve compares up to the Wilesco. I can see Mamod catching up slightly with the gadgets, whilst still keeping their charm and looks 
Great read Rog!
|
||||||
| Manxman |
As a person who just loves mobiles, I have to agree with everything you've said. All very fair. Both companies have their advantages and I, for one, like the fact that they are different.
Just wait till you get a few more and then start looking else where. I think the NZ Auld engines are just brill at the moment and again just that little bit different from Mamod and Wilesco. |
||||||
| Mamodman123 |
Any plans for the S/V Mamods Manx? | ||||||
| seven.mpd |
Buy them all thats what I say! | ||||||
| John Chapman |
Interesting thoughts there Rog. Might have to think about a mobile myself, sounds like fun But which one? "That", as Shakespeare said, "is the rub."
|
||||||
| SillyBilly |
I found with the mamod steering rods are good for pulling wheelies!  
|
||||||
| IndianaRog |
John, I don't think you could go wrong with a Wilesco or Mamod in either roller or TE configuration. Mamod will appeal more to the traditionalist, Wilesco more to those who like a bit more complexity & gadgetry in the design. I love them both !!! Mr. Shakespeare knew of what he spoke!!! cheers, Rog |
||||||
| James |
Thou liest! Malignant thing! May a curse of a thousand sea urchins pinch your skin each one hurting more than the last!!
|
||||||
| Mamodman123 |
I'm glad he did... because many didn't
|
||||||
| James |
Thou dost! | ||||||
| Wallace |
Great to read those opinions Rog 
|
||||||
| TRAPPERKEEPER |
Having a mamod SR1a and a wilesco D405 myself, I agree with what you said. I like the wilesco turning and I don't even have a hose thing, I just use the little steering wheel, and the mamod steering rod does work fairly well, considering how fast those SR1a's can go
|
||||||
| Mamodman123 |
Too fast for some peoples liking! but adds to the charm
|
||||||
| IndianaRog |
Hi TK... The walk behind Wilesco Cable works "pretty well", but you have to crank it briskly to make quick turns...still, I like it. Comes with a little palm fitting handle you hold in one hand, turn a miniature wheel like the steering wheel with your other hand. The engine end has a little spring clip that presses onto the center of the steering wheel. On the SR1a and TE1a, it would be nice if an additional idler type flywheel could be adapted to them...allowing for different speed ratios to the wheels. I'm one who would prefer them running a bit slower so they don't crash into things !!! Still, as MM points out, the high speed is part of their charm. I run mine on an elevated (10 feet up) deck off the back of my house...one wrong move and it's a long way to terra firma 
Rog |
||||||
| tmuir |
Rog the 'newer' mobiles that are fitted with a reversing lever give limitted speed control.
Just set the leaver a notch or two off optimum placement for it to run slower. Admittedly it only gives very basic speed control but something is better than nothing. |
||||||
| TRAPPERKEEPER |
That drop would be deadly But I run mine on my driveway, so no drops can happen. But my D405 did go under the car when it got going quick and scraped the canopy a bit  , but its alright and still runs nicely
|
||||||
| Mamodman123 |
Mamods are made of strong stuff. One of my SE3' went down the stairs and lived to tell the tale, just
|
||||||
| flywheel61 |
A very interesting discussion, thanks Rog for your fair & forthright comparisons, Must run my SR1 again, maybe a competition between it & the TE1.
Cheers
Chris |
||||||
| wyvern |
I have to say that having both the wilesco, mamod te1 and mamod PV (goliath) that the wilesco does perform faultlessly, like a swiss watch as indianarog says.
The mamod te1a does have charm. Although I've fitted an gearing shaft to it (removable) made from meccano and a bit I knocked up in my model engineering classes it does look a bit messy, although obviously it has more torque and runs slower now. The piston valve engine on my goliath is a brilliant runner and the unit itself is much more powerful than the wilesco. However the wilesco has far more gearing (mamod about 1:8 and a wilesco about 1:30). Overall the goliath tractor doesn't run as faultlessly as the wilesco, for two reasons. The first is that the wilesco engine is very well ballanced and so hums away quite happily. Where as the mamod has had no balancing and so at the high speeds the engine can run at the vibrations can become pretty strong. The second problem is that the goliath engine suffers from priming. The steam regulator is simply a rod with a hole drilled through it which creates some sealing problems. I have sealed the regulator with carbon string so that it is now steam tight. However when building up steam, steam does force its way past the regulator and into the inline lubricator. The consequence of this is that the steam and the oil mix. Therefore you have to exhaust all of this mixture before the engine will run causing occasional hydraulicing during the exhausting period. Once it runs it runs beautifully, all credit to mamod. I do intend to modify my goliath TE1V to solve these problems. This will involve fitting a ip engineering regulator for the loco and routing the pipe under the burner. I will also make a new regulator block with a larger inline lubricator. Then I intend to exhaust the steam to the chimney. Sorry about the long post, I'll be suprised if most people will be bothered to read it!
|
||||||
| Mamodman123 |
Really good to hear more about the new Mamods! thanks for the 'review' as it were
|
||||||
| wyvern |
Glad you found it interesting, the problem is really that I am a perfectionist so really I want everything I own to run perfectly. The sealing I put in place may have made the "priming" problem worse as excess pressure would cause steam to seap from the regulator handle and so I imagine less would reach the inline lubricator. But certainly the engine runs alot crisper in motion and can tick over at slower speeds. Apart from the small niggles like the one I mentioned the engines pretty good (I do think the roller looks better). I just wish that mamod had spent more time getting it right. Really I think they should spend the extra time charge a little more as most of the people that will buy them will be adult collectors. | ||||||
| IndianaRog |
Wyvern, enjoyed your discussion of the various mobiles, especially Goliath.
Since these things are essentially lubricated with the condensate passing thru them, I wonder if you could get around your oil/water mix problem in the lubricator by simply NOT putting oil in the lubricator. On my slide valve Jensens I usually run them with no lubrication of the cylinder/piston as they are not provided with a lubricator. It is possible to work oil into that area at the start by squirting some in the exhaust tube and turning flywheel to suck it back in...but honestly I see little difference in performance and I run my engines alot. Just a thought. Rog |
||||||
| wyvern |
Thanks for the advice . Actually I have tried that before and it does sort of work. I first thourght of it as it is how the wilesco engine runs ie you suck in some lubricant by turning it over. The problem is that condensate still reaches the lubrication chamber and settles there. I have started the engine with the displacement lubricator cap off and so I can suck out the condensate with a pipette before it starts, then quickly replace the cap which pretty much eliminates the problem.
The design of the lubricator is not like a roundhouse displacement lubricator or similar as it is simply a large chamber where the steam enters via one port and leaves via another to the engine. A better idea is to have a tube passing through it with a small hole ( this is what I plan to replace it with ). The successful advoidance of priming with the wilesco is down to the steam valve being pretty steam tight and also taking the steam directly from the boiler. I have thought about building up the thickness of the regulator valve with etching primer to make it seal properly at the point where the steam enters and leaves. I will probably do thins before modifying it to use an ip engineering regulator (I have aready bought and actually fits despite the firebox getting in the way). I also intend to place a steam pipe with a hole running through the displacement lubricator so it works better. |
||||||
| IndianaRog |
Wyvern,
Sounds if anyone can solve that problem you have got the best chance. Makes you wonder sometimes if the design teams at the factories actually test what they come up with before releasing it to the marketplace
cheers, Rog |
||||||
| wyvern |
Cheers Rog
Yeah, I really think they should test them in the factory before sending them off. My goliath has actually been back to the factory to be fixed and they replaced various parts because it was leaking excessively. They fixed it and returned it to me and it ran ok, but the leak at the regulator means you cant run it at low speeds as well as if you seal the regulator with some carbon string (there is obviously a pressure loss at this point). I may well also put some gearing on it to halve the speed although that would require a fair bit of alteration work. To be honest its not all bad when its running its very good and I think it looks better in motion than a wilesco. All I need now is to treat myself to a nice pillar drill, and a gas torch to solder with
|
||||||
| Mamodman123 |
Any chance of some real close ups of the Goliath engine?
|
||||||
| toxx |
Wilesco and MamodDear friends in steam! I followed this thread closely - I agree, both makers are grand. P'raps someone should put them together - a kind of steam sex-thing. We could call it a "Wilesmamod" or a "Mamlesco" ...
No, really: I, too, love them both and am glad to (hopefully!) add a SR1a to my tiny collection soon. I love Mamod's sturdyness and charm. A new thing Wilesco has in her programme: A REAL r/c unit! It's called the "Funkfernsteuerung für Wilesco Dampfwalzen". The receiver is incorperated in an appealing wood-like box, which is attached to the steamer's arse, okay, rear end. It has a "Stop! I'm reversing!" signal, plus left and right signals. As I understand the whole thing, you CAN NOT use it with your normal transmitter you might have, either AM or FM, should you be a rc modellist.You have to buy the whole outfit from Wilesco. At present status ... naw, using a good british band's name ... the Status Quo is, it will only work for the Wilesco steam rollers, not for the tractors (yet). Friends, what do you think of this innovation? Would be grand not having to walk behind your Old Smokey with that steel imblibical cord (unsure I am of correct spelling  ). Please clink into their homepage and take a look at this gadget.
http://www.wilesco.de/wilesco/index.html Go to 'Neuheiten'. Do you think we could use this on a Mamod? Kind greetz - and okay, I admit I've had two beers after work. Tom |
||||||
| Mamodman123 |
Hi Tom
Is it for steering only? If so I can't see any reason why we can't use it on a mamod! |
||||||
| toxx |
H'llo, everybody! I copied this from the Wilesco h-page, and will just paste it here. What do you think? Radio control for Wilesco Steam Rollers A one-cylinder-steam engine is now fully reversibleby the new remote control system for each Wilesco steam roller. With this new item the steam roller can move forwards and bachwards as well as turn to the left and right. After the steam roller is heated up, you just have to start the flywheel once and the free ride can begin. In this way nostalgic technology and modern electronics come together. Additionally the add-on kit have two stop lights and indicator lights which flashes for each change of direction. These steam rollers will be available as complete assembled models. For people who already owning a Wilesco Steam Roller, a add-on kit can be extended within two steps. The first step is a add-on kit whch contains the transmitter and the receiver for the steering function. This extension does not require particular modelmaking skills and can be easily added on the model. The second step contains the necessary mounting parts so that the direction can be changed with the transmitter. The assembling is easy for everybody with the included instructions. Radio remote control Z 360 for the steering of all of the Wilesco steam rollers. This kit contains the transmitter, the receiver and the gear rod joining the receiver to the front axle. This remote control is thought for the actual steam rollers and is very easily mounted. Supplement to the radio remote control Z 363 This supplement for the change of direction (forwards and backwards) contains several component parts and a small motor to which the receiver will be connected and thus operated from the transmitter. The model have to be partially dismantled and assembled again with the added parts. The necessary modification is for everybody possible with the illustrated instructions. 
|
||||||
| Mamodman123 |
Does look like a great thing to have but whats the damage to the wallet going to be? 
|
||||||
| toxx |
... oi, mates! That's the prob. Wilesco's off on company holliday (Bless them. But where do they go? All together? Oboy! ) and I didn't get any response to my question of price on this new gadget yet.
It sounds like a nice step forwards in mobile steam fun. It's gonna be heavy on the wallet. I just know it 
Cheers, Tom |
||||||
| IndianaRog |
Fascinating stuff Tom, thanks for sharing. Some thoughts:
1) if it works on Wilesco, it would seem almost certain to work on Mamod IF it doesn't need to use the Wilesco chain steering on the front, something Mamod does not have. 2) if we can get someone on here to spend the money, with good pictures it might be possible to make one up from spare RC parts such as receiver, battery pack and a servo or two. I never thought of hanging all the stuff off the rear of the coal box...probably safest spot to keep it from getting hot. Shame it is so large though...looks a bit bulky, but still a neat concept. 3) without knowing price, I am guessing at $100-150 USD suggested retail (1/3-1/2 the suggested retail of the roller itself) Tom...please feel free to be the first on the forum to buy one, then share photos so guys like me with lots of older RC gear can do it up for nothing!!!!! thanks, Rog |
||||||
| toxx |
Dear Rog! I think by straining my eyes I can see a rod leading from the box at the engine's dérierre to the fork where the front roller sits. I guess it bypasses the chain steering; this might be the reason why it's only for the rollers at present, not for the tractor and D409 Showman; they have a different design up front. Now, if we could hook this rod to the fork of a SR1, it should work just as well as on Old Smokey. I'm definately gonna get one of these rigs, but it will take a while 'till I get the dough together. Until then: Should anybody want to beat me in getting one, please do!
Greetz, and y'all have a beer on me says Tom
|
||||||
| Wallace |
I think that looks fantastic, and the idea of R/C is something the mobiles need.
Love the way they incorporated the receiver and such in the back. Great idea 
|
||||||
| IndianaRog |
Tom, I think you are right...the Wilesco RC unit must have one or two servos in the rear box with control rods extending alongside the right and maybe the left of firebox...just visible in pics. I can envision how it works now and YES, if that is how it runs, it should be adaptable to a Mamod as well.
I sent an email to Matthias Brenner at Station 500 asking if it is a stock item and how much cost. Will share whatever I hear back, Cheers, Rog |
||||||
| Stitch |
Couldn't agree more Manxman
Just found out today that David Auld also made a crane and a steam boat. Haven't seen either of these myself. There are a couple of them in an Otago museum and i am trying to talk my brother into getting some photos for me |
||||||
| tmuir |
Really? I didn't know that and yes I think a few photos posted here is definitely in order. |
||||||
| Manxman |
I agree. Get that brother under pressure. Photos please. |
||||||
| steamyjim |
Im making a RC TE1a myself. I am having the steering servo underneath the boiler discuised as belly tanks and a micro servo for reversing lever discuised as a small tool box on the canopy rod things.
If i can get a 4 channel one cheap i will put wilesco gearing on it with RC on the clutch and RC on the crane jib or whistle
Will take me a while to finish though
|
||||||
| toxx |
Dear Steamy! That sounds great! Could you supply us with pix of your progress? Cheers, mates! Says Tom |
||||||
| Mamodman123 |
Not a bad idea actually Jim, wouldn't mind having a go myself.
|
||||||
| steamyjim |
I will get some pics if you want. The RC is a long way down the line as i have to finish the crane of first. I think i have a detailed drawing i did somewhere. If i can find it ill scan it in
|
||||||
| TE1A_man |
And the speed is good for drifting! Just don't try it inside, you might not know when the on-fire fuel may come out!
|
||||||
| Mamodman123 |
I was doing do-nuts with my little TE1a much better than having them running really slow 
|
||||||
| Stitch |
[quote="Manxman
I agree. Get that brother under pressure. Photos please.[/quote] Will do  They are on display at the Wanka toy and motor museum. Have just remembered there is also another museum in the Sth Island (name escapes me) that has an Auld steam boat on display.
|
||||||
| Manxman |
Will do They are on display at the Wanka toy and motor museum. Have just remembered there is also another museum in the Sth Island (name escapes me) that has an Auld steam boat on display.[/quote]
This is all very good Sttch but you could be getting yourself a name as a bit of a toy steam tease. Get that brother out with his camera. |
||||||
| rangerssteamtoys |
I agree with every thing you said rog, but I think mamod has you beat. They havent got every thing right yet but its close. I think my wilesco steam roller with hyperdrive is a little closer.
Check this out. http://youtube.com/watch?v=LSKLi4IBZxw[/img] |
||||||
| rangerssteamtoys |
I passed you up a little http://youtube.com/watch?v=TyCQU1VvAGc |
||||||
| rangerssteamtoys |
The piston valve engine on my goliath is a brilliant runner and the unit itself is much more powerful than the wilesco. However the wilesco has far more gearing (mamod about 1:8 and a wilesco about 1:30). Overall the goliath tractor doesn't run as faultlessly as the wilesco, for two reasons.
I figure the wilesco to be exactly 1:43 and mamod 1:12 Just telling you what I figured after about 5 times. |
||||||
| Mamodman123 |
Looks really good! better than I could do anyway.
Would be interesting to see it moving too. Maybe try doing the same with an SR1, they are much faster
|
||||||
| rangerssteamtoys |
Here it is, with my hyperdrive.The engine was going so fast it basicly blew the fire out. I think you will find mine much faster than a SR1 http://youtube.com/watch?v=xYFNwwUTXsQ |
||||||
| Lewis |
holly crap thats fast
|
||||||
| Mamodman123 |
 great stuff!
That's pretty damn fast, did you alter the gearing or anything on it? never seen a Wilesco go so quick
|
||||||
| rangerssteamtoys |
I put on rubber tires then cut a slit for a pulley in the rubber and got a belt from my mamod te1a. | ||||||
| Mamodman123 |
Is that all you did? it's like the fast and the furious
|
||||||
| rangerssteamtoys |
yeah pretty much, I just looked at my mamod and thought How could i do that with my wilesco steam roller | ||||||
| Mamodman123 |
Worked well doubt you could get a Mamod that fast might be able to....
|
||||||
| wyvern |
Seeing your steam roller at speed is amazing its alot faster than the mamod steam car.
I think at full speed the goliath is also pretty quick, when it goes around in circles at high speed the tyres begin to slide off due to the speed as oil gets between them and the rim! I don't think I am going to get round to proving it with a video though. |
||||||
| Mamodman123 |
Oh go on please please please!
Would be good to see one maxed out
|
||||||
| Stitch |
You cheeky sod
I have written to the museum asking for some details of the crane and boat and if they have any pics. Brother won't get there for a while |
||||||
| rangerssteamtoys |
Heres an idea for mounting the r/c gear, put it under the boiler and disguised as a belly tank. There is plenty of room to mount what you need there and then insulate the heck out of it form the boiler and firebox. | ||||||
| steamyjim |
THATS MY IDEA, YOU STOLE IT.
Im making one already
|
||||||
| rangerssteamtoys |
Realy? Cool tell indianarog how it turns out then.
|
||||||
| steamyjim |
Will be a while before the RC is done.
Getting stage 1 done first- converting it to a steam crane then shall do stage 2 RC then stage 3 the trailer |