More on Copyrights

Cedge · More on Copyrights

I'd find it all amusing if it weren't becoming such a matter of intense debate. Copyright is perhaps the most misunderstood set of laws ever written.

What I find most amusing is this ongoing falderal about reproduced Logos and who owns what.....

You can't hold copyright on a derivative work.. a work derived from another already in existence. Since a company owns its own logos, past and present, any rework of their design is a derivative work of prior art and is in violation of their rights.

The reproducing artist can scream it on a street corner all day everyday, but it won't change the facts. Issuing threats of court action are quite hollow since no such copyright ownership exists.

I've watched an individual repeatedly bluff his claim of copyright on derivative works as if it were written is stone. I'd certainly not wish to be in those shoes if his claim is ever challenged by the original owner. The penalties for willful copyright violation are not something that I wouldn't want to have to settle with.

Fair Use Doctrine...
There are a limited number of uses where your copyright will not stop usage of your work. Limited quotation of a body of writing and certain uses of an image, photo or even music for editorial comment, educational purposes or even parody are all completely acceptable use and, short of libelous usage, are protected by these international laws and treaties.

Libelous usage is any usage determined to have the effect of causing personal or financial damages to the copyright owner. The courts have determined that this can also include damages to reputation resulting in loss of profit or social standing.

I was recently contacted about a web site making rather wholesale usage of copyrighted images as part of its content. The site was furthering its own growth by using stolen images. I was forced to confront this owner and have them removed, much to his dismay. Another was forced to remove them for use intended to further commercial gain. We also regularly shut down Ebay auctions due to this type of violation.

On the other hand, one of the better known Jensen site images was posted on another steam board and I was soon notified. I'm no fan of this particular forum owner, but after seeing how the image was used, it was obviously well within the arena of fair editorial and typical educational use, without any apparent effort to profit from its use. The owner was not even notified that I'd had a look, nor that its use had easily passed the smell test. No need to do so... no foul, no penalty. I'm nothing, if I'm not fair.

I've spent many years having to police copyright for any number of client web sites and graphics clients, as well as my own works. Obvious violations require immediate reaction, while a bit more judgment has to be used when things are possibly happening within the laws allowance. Not only can you can look stupid for over-reacting, you can get yourself in some really deep legal waters. Waters that are meant to equally protect both of you.

I've actually instituted legal proceedings over copyright issues. It's not cheap and the case can many take years to adjudicate. You'll probably run out of money long before it ends, unless the damages that were done are real and significant enough to keep your lawyer feeling greedy.

Before getting all bent out of shape and jumping on someone, it's a good idea to seek an outside opinion from someone who is knowledgeable and experienced in the subject. It's much cheaper than potentially winding up on the wrong end of a very pointy legal spear. When in doubt, you can bet your aunt Hattie's house cat that I seek a professional opinion.

Bottom line... read the laws, they are not all that difficult to comprehend. Know where your rights begin and where they end or someone will surely try to screw you with your own ignorance. Asking an attorney is cheaper than being sued. They don't charge much for a cease and desist letter, which is often quite enough to convince a violator that things are serious.

Steve

johnreid

I know that at least for Music, the laws are now undergoing change in the US.
Fair use is often misunderstood, but most often people do not even know that they are doing any harm.
Ebay is a prime example as people bid according to their interpretation of the photos, that old steamer that Uncle Roy destroyed when he was 10 years old is not the same one that is featured on the Jensen website, and the bidder is in for an unpleasant surprise when he gets it. It just isnt right to use a stolen image to represent an item you are selling.

tmuir

Thanks for that Cedge.
With Australia not long ago signing a fair trade deal with the US all our copyright laws were brought in line with US laws, the only change that really took place though was how long a particular work is protected by copyright after the owners death.

I have read a lot on Australian copy right and it is pretty much as you have stated so I suggest everyone reads Cedge's post as it gives a pretty clear understanding of copyright.

The only other point I will add is you do not need to register a work of art , photo, drawing etc to have copyright.

You automatically own the copyright as soon as you create it as long as its not a copy of someone else's work as Cedge said.

Mister Occlusion

So, is there some procedure to obtaining copyright on a personal work, or can you simply slap the circle-c on it and that's enough to make it legal?

A number of years ago I had looked into registering a trademark (a different thing I know) for the company name that I was going to use, but in the end I didn't bother since it involved paperwork, fees, renewals, and I was obviously not going into business for a long time, if ever.

But then I was told that simply using a name and logo is enough to establish ownership of that name and mark.

(edit: I see my question was answered above the same moment I posted it... That's service!)

tmuir

A trademark is something different and requires to be registered as that involves a whole lot of different laws but in answer to your question a copyright symbol is enough and is actually not even needed in Australia but is a good idea.

The only reason to register an image would be it makes it easier to prove you own the copyright.

One cheap way is to put a copy of the work in a sealed tamper evident envelope and post it to yourself by registered signed mail to yourself and on receiving it do not open it and then you have a date on the envelope showing when you made it.

Mister Occlusion

That's cunning, putting the postal system to use in the fight against crime...
I'll pass that along to a friend of mine. She's an amateur writer who is trying to find some method of proving copyright on her material. Modify Dates on .doc files are pretty meaningless after all.

Cedge

Mr.O...
Tony is correct. Musicians have been using registered post requiring a returned signature of receipt for many decades. The postal service makes official a date of delivery and provides you with a dated and signed receipt which gives you a legal proof of a proven date of the content's existence, as long as the post remains sealed. It's usually best to double seal things using more than one envelope or package.

Nothing at all is required to hold a copyright. Once an original creation is completed, it is automatically endowed with your copyright. Registering it with your nation's copyright offices just extends your rights for recovering damages should you have to litigate. The © symbol is basically a visual reminder which can be used to prove willful abuse of your copyright... ie. It had to be intentionally ignored and or removed to have been used by the violator. Hard to sell a lack of intent to the judge if you had to remove the mark before using the work.

Steve

Mister Occlusion

Wallace

Cedge, thanks for that info, it's greatly appreciated

Manxman

Cedge, clear and informative. Thanks.

MooseMan

For the UK based musos among us: get in touch with the MCPS/PRS alliance, they're your friends and the absolute experts in this field.

James

Thanks for that Steve!

Can I ask, how long did it take to write that out???

johnreid

Remember that copyrighting a photograph and copyrighting music and text are different topics altogether, as far a music goes the Letter mailed to oneself has already lost out in a court of law. Photos are much easier to copyright, a;though in this digital age that is probably easily defeated if enough effort is involved.
If your livelihood depends on something being copyrighted, consult an Attorney. Better safe than sorry.

Cedge

John
The postal thing is not perfect and it is not registration by any means. It is still a recommended way to provide a documented date from an official body. Music is certainly undergoing an upheaval these days with the all piracy issues. This area is seeing the laws challenged, but copyright law is evolving to withstand the tests.

Writing is something you'll always want to register. My own Ebook was registered and it was the best thing I've done. A friend, who wrote several books on a similar subject didn't bother to register and soon saw her book own books translated into Chinese and huge numbers were sold by others. My own was left alone, although I'll admit it also was subject to a number of other security measures making it a bit more difficult to steal.

Indeed, the best advice is ....Consult an attorney when dealing with complex legal issues such as copyright. But it is a good idea to at least have some working knowledge of the subject so that you are not so likely to run afoul of it.

James....
not nearly as long as you'd imagine...LOL

Steve

James

LOL!1

I thought the best thing you ever agreed to do was let me buy your entire collection for $1 when you were drunk that time? It seemed the best agrrement to me anyways

Cedge

James...
Uhhhh..... You mean they haven't arrived yet?... Hurry... file a claim with Her Majesty's royal postal servants. You wouldn't want them delaying things...eh?

(Removing all mention of surname "Chantry" from most recent will and testament....)
Steve

James

LMFAO!!!

Ahh gotta love a good laugh!