MSS Side tank 0-4-0

SJN · MSS Side tank 0-4-0

Almost like christmas again....mmmm.. maybe even better

My MSS loco arived today, and its neat!

But I must say, that the person who assembled my loco does not have a passion in building trains. It was put together so crooked that he should be ashamed of himself. The left side tank was mis aligned by 4mm. The little tab that slides under the chimmney assembly was not installed correctly, and had a new hole drilled into it for the screw to fit. And the Burner tray is missing too.. And I know why its missing...the frame was bent like a banana, so he had no chance of fitting it

I was a little pissed about it as it made everything on the loco mis aligned. I forgot to take any pictures of it, before I had disasemmbled the whole thing to rectify the problem.
Luckily it all came together well again, and it looks as it should.
The nut on the whistle assembly is the wrong size..its too big, and just slides off of the bolt. I have tightned 3 nuts, that where only finger tightned.

This is my first train, and have a question abot the wheel distance.

How far apart should the wheel be on a I gauge 45mm track ?

The LGB tracks I have are exactly 45mm apart when messured on the inside. The locomotive has 43mm of space, which means that there is a 2mm slop on the track.

this gives quite alot of side motion
Is this right ?

Well, it wont be running anywhere soon without a burner tray...

SJN

A burner tray is on the way

Its being sent from the manufacturer.....so I hope it wont take too long....

I must say, that Sally from Locobox is VERY quick to respond to mails, and service is great. http://www.locoboxmodels.co.uk/

SPOKESMAN

Looks good - been splashing the cash a bit!!

SJN

work 7 days, 64 hours at night, then you have to burn your hard earned cash on something cool

SJN

Bummer....I just filled water into the boiler, and water just runs out the bottom.

The copper tube under the boiler is just loosly pushed into the boiler. Is this supposed to be soldered in place ?

SJN

How is this supposed to be sealed ?

MTA

My MSS loco has an O ring around the end of the pipe, so the O ring forms a seal between the hole at the bottom and the steam pipe

SJN

hmm...wonder how I can fix it.

how is it installed in the forward/reverse valve ?

SJN

ahhh....the brass dome on the top has a function

Should be able to fix it

SPOKESMAN

It does - so the pipe is above the water level!

SJN

Well, I could not resist firing it up. I used my D10 tray...not optimal, but works.

But Ive got problems. It fills the smoke box up with water in no time.

I let it boil until the safetyvalve opens, then set it to forward. THe wheels turn, and then the smoke box/chimney fill rapidly with water, and spews out killing the flamus under the boiler.....you can just see the water leven in the guage go to minimum in 10 seconds......very strange.

how high is your stand pipe under the brass dome ?

Sandman

I'm a real novice on these but I would say you could be over filling the boiler.

Just a suggestion.

MTA

That's about the same height as the one on mine....

SJN

hmm...I dont understand how it does this.....

I fill the boiler to the max level on the guage, so that should be fine

I just cant figure out how it can make so much water so fast......

MTA

No doubt with your skills though SJN, it will be a good 'un within no time. I bought my MSS loco SH, and it had uprated cylinders already fitted, so who knows, maybe it suffered the same problems as yours has before I bought it

tmuir

There could be air bubbles trapped in the site glass giving you incorrect water level readings.
Try giving it a gentle tap on the site glass after filling.
The pipe is about the same height as mine.
When you first start it you will get a small amount of priming.
Mine I usually push it forward then reverse by hand about 1 1/2 feet in each direction and get water squirting out for most of this, after that it is ok.
I have extended my exhaust pipe up to within 5mm of the end of the funnel so most of my water is squirted out the chimney so doesnt run back to the burner.

If you still having problems only half fill the boiler, also do not remove the steam dome unless you really have to as the steam dome bush has a nasty habbit of coming loose. Its an easy fix but anonying when it happens.

SJN

Argh!!!!!!!!!!

Im going insane!
Why is this happening!!
Water level is fine.
In this video, it emptys the boiler in 3 starts!
I even moved the pipe inside the dome even higher, but it has not changed anything.
How can it be doing this!
The stand pipe is well over water level, and it still draws water out!

Heres the video of this wird behavior

tmuir

Ohhh.

Thats not right.
So some how steam is forcing water into the steam pipe.

I wonder if the pipe that goes up into the steam dome has a hole in it below the water line in the boiler allowing water not steam through.

Maybe try removing the boiler again and take the steam dome off.
Block one end of the pipe with your finger and blow on the other end and if you hear a hiss the steam pipe if faulty.

Thats wierd never seen one throw that much water before.

I'll think about it some more.
BTW hope you didnt get any water in your keyboard

SJN

heh, keyboard is fine

I have taken it apart, and nothing leaks!
This is very strange...it should not be physically possible.

SPOKESMAN

The engine is priming, this can be a result of overfilling. MM is your man here, but I suspect that water is finding its way into the steam pipe somehow, as Tony said maybe a leak in the pipe, or posibly the pipe is not high enough in the boiler dome. New engine do prime a bit when new - several test runs may help.

Titan

I can tell you the symptoms are not consistent with a hole in the pipe. As the steam pipe passes through a tube in the boiler, it does not actually come in to contact with the water in the boiler at all, so water could not get in even if there was a hole. What would happen if there was would be large amounts of steam (not water)escaping from the bottom of the boiler where the pipe comes out - which would interfere quite severely with the flame.

Can I ask did you give the boiler a thorough wash out before firing? There can be deposits, including leftover flux from manufacture which causes the water to foam. I think that the water is foaming up and forcing itself down the steam pipe.

Try giving the boiler a thorough rinse - first with washing up liquid to help shift anything nasty, and then another three times with water only to get rid of any traces of washing up liquid.

You will always get some water when you start for the first time after raising steam - it is just the steam condensing in the cold cylinders and should dissappear after no more than about 10 seconds or so as the cylinders warm up quite rapidly.

Wallace

Another thing to look at is the burner you are using.

I think you said you are using a Wilesco burner?

I'm not sure how big that is, or how many tablets you are using compared to what the correct Loco burner uses but....

My boat also has a steam dome setup, with a overflow plug. Not being factory made, perhaps the overflow plug is simply set too high, as I get some priming with it if I fill it to overflow.

I use a MM1 burner to fire it, so quite small.

I tried a larger evap burner, and it just wouldn't run, only primed for the most part.

I'm guessing my problem was due to the water boiling more violently with the larger burner, or more surface area had bubbling water. ie, put a pan full of boiling water half over a stove hotplate, and only one half is really bubbling?

So in your case, it may be incorect burner use? I don't know the setup, but mught even be down to the fact the incorrect burner is giving flame closer to steam dome than the correct burner does, geting water into steam pipe?

Just a thought and hope it gets sorted for you mate.

SJN

I have been checked, and re-checked......
Only one thing that I have not tried.

The original burner tray.......

The wilesco tray is not as long as the original, and concentrats all the heat in the middle of the boiler, under the dome almost.

I can see in the pictures of the original, that there is a space between the fuel tablets.

Is this space under the dome ?

Maybe the water in the boiler directly over the flame splashes/boils more, than a place where there is no fuel tablet.....

In a meths burner setup, are any of the whicks directly under the dome ?

I just cant think of anything else that could force water all the way up into the dome.......a whole tank full!

Mamodman123

Step one:

Half fill the boiler and test.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist the work out that this engine is priming with that much water coming from the chimney.

Use the original burner aswell! Ive never seen a loco priming but it looks to overfilled. IT still moves slightly under steam so all the pipes look to be ok......

SJN

ohh....I did not read page 3 before posting above

It has to be the burner tray......

I have rinced the tank pretty well.....took out the sight glass, rinced it with lots of detergant and hot water.

Mamodman123

SJN

If they had remembered to include the MSS burner, I would have used it!

Ill try filling the boiler to half, and only use one tablet instead of two.

Mamodman123

SJN

Im using the Esbit tablets.

They are half the size of the MSS ones

Mamodman123

SJN

sure..

the round Mamod tablets with the LM1, and the square with the MSS.

SJN

well, same result..... its empties the water over into the smake box.

I think I will try take the dome off, fill it halfway, and fire up the boiler, and see if the water is foamming or something when boiling.

SJN

Got it running.... I dont know how exactly.... probably a combination of things

I boiled the water in the boiler itself twice without the steam dome and safety valve, and poured the steaming hot water out of the boiler after a few minutes of cooking

......I figured this should remove any possible flux and detergent maybe left in it, causing it to foam up. Rinsed the boiler with hot and cold tap water for several minutes...

I also dismantled the smoke box, and found it was glued/sealed to the boiler itself making it 100% watertight.

After putting it together, the water leaks out the bottom, which I think is a good thing, instead of filling up the entire smoke box with water.
I also ony fill it up about 80% of the max mark.

Here it is with the throttle slightly open, going slow.....

SPOKESMAN

Much better!!

Mamodman123

Thats better! It will take a few runs for it to run in more but once it is, it should rocket round that track

.

The smokebox is usually a really really tight fit to the boiler! It doesn't have to seal anthing though!

Ive never seen a loco throw out water like that before

MTA

I'd take the cylinders off after that, as water in the cylinders can damage it and the pistons! SJN, how on earth do you move in your apartment/flat?

SJN

Yea, its much better

It dos not like the shifting track point though....it de-rails if you try to change to the side track.

Ill be shooting some onboard film later tonight.........Heading home to mum`s cooking now...Steak and chips.....mmMMmmmmm just what the doctor ordered

Mamodman123

MTA

Possibly, although it probably wouldn't have caused cracking. More like the lining on the inside, also it would wear the piston more quickly

Titan

Water in the cylinders causing trouble?

Never heard of that one before! I certainly would not remove the cylinders, once fitted best left on, any disturbance either to the port faces or the gaskets, particularly after it is run in, is likely to cause more trouble in the form of steam leaks than any benefit it might have! It looks like it is running nicely now - if it aint broke don't fix it!

James

I took the cylinders off my loco a bit back to oil them. The bolts were a bugger to get back on! Ran loads better though

Roly Williams

Great video. It runs well at slow speed but it really slows down on the curves. The flanges must be tight on that radius.

If that had been real life, I can just imagine the accident report: "loco collided with sub-marine but carried on with test run..."

James

SJN

hehe...yea, hitting a submarine must be a first

Heres the onboard video.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3727795728966638061

Mamodman123

SJN

hehe...I need a higher pressure safety valve...or modify the stock one, and I need to "RC" it to control the speed better

Mamodman123

SJN

you just wait...ill have this thing running so smoothe, that you will think its electric

Mamodman123

James

LMAO!

SJN

haha

Mamodman123

James

It is a really nice loco SJN, I wouldn't mind it, that's for sure!

The way you make these engines run is a credit to our hobby!

James

It is a really nice loco SJN, I wouldn't mind it, that's for sure!

The way you make these engines run is a credit to our hobby!

SJN

Thanks James

I have already been on the lookout for something else.
I love the LNER A4 Mallard from Aster, but 6000£ is a little steep

Mamodman123

Now that's a beast of a loco

I bet that doesn't stop after 3 yards

like Rosa did in her early days!

James

Mallard! My favorite loco!!

tmuir

If you want something a bit fancier there is a Lady Anne like mine on ebay at the moment.
I'm guessing it will make between 800 and 900 pounds.
Here is the link.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Roundhouse-...ategoryZ14737QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

My Sl2 was a bit sluggish after I fitted the new cylinders but it gets better with each run as it runs in, yours will be the same.

As for derailing at the points. I dont know about the MSS wheels but I know the original Mamod wheels have fairly small flanges which can cause derailments. Maybe fitting new steel wheels will stop it.
Once you get a meths or gas burner and uprated safety valve the engine will perform better aswell.

SJN

Thanks Tmuir.

How do you take the wheels and axles off, when the time comes ?

Are your wheels also 43mm apart from each other ?

tmuir

Mamodman123

tmuir

So you got the new wheels on MM. I told you they are fiddley to install but once on they are great.

SJN

Thanks

Mamodman123

tmuir

Mamodman123

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