Roundy
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new toy :PHi guys, after the mother of all negociations i bort this engine from a toy person at a car boot- i assume it is german because of wieght (tin construction) and fount it quite quirky so beat the bloke down from £45 to £25 
it has no markings- could anyone give me an idea of make/ age and possibly value as i am not sure at the moment weather to hang onto it.
o yep and the fly wheel is a bit bent so i need to have a go at straightening or make a new one 
cheers
Roundy
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tmuir
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I've seen one of those before but can't remember what it is. 
Looks good though.
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Roundy
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thanks lol if you have a brain wave pls let me no- any ideas on straightening flywheel as i cant seem 2 get it of and i dont want to give it too much stick!
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steamyman
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| tmuir wrote: | I've seen one of those before but can't remember what it is.
Looks good though. |
It looks like a Weeden to me  , I maybe wrong......
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Roundy
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thanks- any idaes on age/ value?
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steamyman
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| Roundy wrote: | | thanks- any idaes on age/ value? |
maybe 1950s couple of hundred $$.
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Roundy
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thanks- any ideas on straightening flywheel?
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steamyman
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| Roundy wrote: | | thanks- any ideas on straightening flywheel? |
personally, I'd leave it as is. All adds character.
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Roundy
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i want to try and run it tho and it rubs on the boiler lol
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steamyman
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| Roundy wrote: | | i want to try and run it tho and it rubs on the boiler lol |
grip it in your hand and gently pull f/w towards u that should straighten it.
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Roundy
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| steamyman wrote: | | Roundy wrote: | | i want to try and run it tho and it rubs on the boiler lol |
grip it in your hand and gently pull f/w towards u that should straighten it. |
just done that lol and it worked lol
thanks
any idears where i can look to try and establish when it and what it is lol?
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Roundy
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thanks steamyman - if u think it could b worth about 200 oz$ then what is about £95 so i will probs hang onto it for the time beeing.
many thanks
Roundy
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steamyman
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| Roundy wrote: | | steamyman wrote: | | Roundy wrote: | | i want to try and run it tho and it rubs on the boiler lol |
grip it in your hand and gently pull f/w towards u that should straighten it. |
just done that lol and it worked lol
thanks
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glad to have helped.
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tmuir
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It may be German so send Dampfzauberer (Mirko) a PM and he will be able to tell you if its German.
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Atticman
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I think its a Bing or Doll, could we have a pic of the burner, and one the right way up Roundy. You can edit and rotate direct on photobucket now. .
Later Bings usually have a small BW embossed on the black of the firebox, its easy to miss it.
Nice engine whatever. Well done for finding at a car boot sale as well. 
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Roundy
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i think it is quite old as i dosnt have a safty valve! runs quite nicly u just hv 2 keep pressure down with the wistle lol
will have a search for the BW on back of firebox
i also made it a base this afternoon- ther was no way of mounting it so i made a plywood circle that the base tightly locates on
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Roundy
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have had a close look and there are no markings on it anywhere 
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Atticman
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Thats a good idea with the base. Lucily most verticals dont tend to walk as much as stationaries either.
Thanks for the pics. Sorry I am no furthur foreward though.
Not like anything on the Doll website. The firebox hole looks the same shape as a Bing I have,
but the crank doesnt go through the engine like this does.
Mirko or Les may know more....
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Roundy
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thanks i hv PMd miko- wich les is worth asking?- i was wondering if perhaps it was a home made job as it seems 2 have characteristics of different manufactures.
cheers
Roundy
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Atticman
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LesMarsh. He has a lot of reference books and knowledge, and likes verticals.
I dont think its scratch built, a lot of the German manufacturers shared ideas, and their models are often similar. Most were in Nuremberg as well, so ideas "got around"
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Roundy
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but still no markings lol- thanks 4 the help
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Les
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I have had a really good look at this as I have an identical one myself.
I do not think if it either Bing or Doll as I have not seen any of their vertical engines with the shaft going through the boiler, but it does have that 'German' look to it.
Go careful with the flywheel as the early ones were made from Lead and melt and break very easily.
Could you show a clearer picture of the burner as that could help identify it as well.
Sorry that I couldn't help but maybe Mirko might know.
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bigal
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Can't wait till final verdict comes in as I have two very similar and again share features from one another.
One which I had attributed to Schoenner (basis of brown paint in flywheel) have melted flywheel so probable is lead.
Will try to get pics up soon.
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Roundy
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thanks very much for trying guys!
i think the flywheel is lead cos when i got the engine it was buckled and rubbed on boiler but it bent back into shape quite easily.
cheers
Roundy
P.s burner had been mended poorly- the handle had been badly soldered on wich melted off yesterday- i have cleaned it up so i can silver solder it when i get the chance.
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Roundy
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more burner pics- someone had bodged the handle on with soft solder that melted yesterday so the funnle is holding the handle in the correct position untill i can find some silver solder lol.
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Wallace
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Nice engine there. 
I had a look in books, but no idea of maker.
Just be real careful with the silver soldering. Actually, I'd just try soft solder.
The heat needed for silver solder could melt or blow holes in the burner
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Roundy
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thanks wallace i soft soldered it on and tryed again but it melted off again- i was going to find a low grade silver solder and give that a go.
do u think it would b deamed as heathan to perhaps find a self tapping screw and screw it on?
cheers
Roundy
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Wallace
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| Roundy wrote: | thanks wallace i soft soldered it on and tryed again but it melted off again- i was going to find a low grade silver solder and give that a go.
do u think it would b deamed as heathan to perhaps find a self tapping screw and screw it on?
cheers
Roundy |
Hi Roundy.
I'd try and avoid a self tapper as once it's done it can't be changed back.
So both surfaces are clean and all good for solder?
What if you try tinning the contact point of the handle. ie, get the part of handle that joins to the burner, and melt some solder on it. You only need a thin covering, exactly the same as if you were putting glue on it.
Then when it's heated the solder will melt and stick it to the burner. Then finish off with a neat bead of solder at the edge.
When you got it, did the burner handle look like it had been repaired before?
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Roundy
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ok thanks will give that a go it had been repaired b 4 cos i was not running it very hot yesterday and it dropped off so i assume it had been repaired b 4. and the burner was covered in a nice layer of crap so i ddnt notice any attempts at repair.
Cheers
Roundy
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Atticman
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I would agree with Wallace here, the burners were all usually soft soldered, and if cleaned right off the new solder will stick fine.
The key is a clean bare metal on both sides. Follow MMs thread on soldering- a sticky at the top of technical tips section.
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Roundy
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i have resoldered it twice and there is no prob it is just the solder i have at the moment and as 2 lower melting point so it keeps melting when i steam it as at is right next to the flame.
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Dampfzauberer
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Sorry to post so late:
I think it is a Bing Engine due to the shape of the SV and the Whistle's handle
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Roundy
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it does not hv a sv and there are no markings on it what age would i think it is?
many thanks
Roundy
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Les
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| Dampfzauberer wrote: | Sorry to post so late:
I think it is a Bing Engine due to the shape of the SV and the Whistle's handle |
Did Bing make any engines where the crankshaft went through the boiler??
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Dampfzauberer
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| Roundy wrote: | it does not hv a sv and there are no markings on it what age would i think it is?
many thanks
Roundy |
That's weird
So is it just a screw?
Anyway, the shape of the engine tells it must be a Bing
Age i would say is is a fairly early one...1910 i would guess.
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Roundy
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yes it is just a screw.
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Atticman
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| Dampfzauberer wrote: | | Roundy wrote: | it does not hv a sv and there are no markings on it what age would i think it is?
many thanks
Roundy |
That's weird
So is it just a screw?
Anyway, the shape of the engine tells it must be a Bing
Age i would say is is a fairly early one...1910 i would guess. |
I have 2 German engines with just a screw and no SV, a launch, and a small Falk.
Someone at the Steam toys in Action meeting in Feb told me not to worry, as the cylinder/ port head acts as an SV in this situation.
Quite a few early engines had no markings, i have a Schoenner and Falk with none- so its just the shape of componrents/ engine that can give us an idea what it is. Makes for fun, and slight frustration
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Roundy
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i was wondering if the cylinder acts as a sv lol
what does miko reccon it might b worth cos i m still not sur weather 2 hang onto it or just sell it on
many thanks
Roundy
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Atticman
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Although old Roundy, its not that unusual, and they seem to come up fairly often on ebay .
Nice with chimney and burner- they often are lost.
I think on UK ebay it would make about £50 or so at the most. If selling list as " Bing vertical steam engine with burner" and it will make more that way.
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Roundy
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ok will probs hang onto it lol
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Wallace
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| Roundy wrote: | | ok will probs hang onto it lol |
Yeah worth hanging onto I think 
Maybe you could try a different soft solder? Worth a try anyway.
I made an SE3 burner, and not knowing any better I silver soldered it.
My brother also made one with thinner gauge brass, but soft soldered it, and it held up well.
As did his repro Bing burner, for a vertical, it was soft soldered.
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Roundy
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i will have another go with some other solder later.
cheers
roundy
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