Mo's first boat project

mogogear · Mo's first boat project

Well I won- - over spent- am too optimistic for - jumped on my project "Hull"

24" long X 4.25" beam

Here she is in all her - yet to be shipped - dirty- tattered glory- but this is a close as I can come to a Bowman in the US-- There is a "K" on her bow..... KO models? I am afraid I am ingnorat of who or what it implies- Maybe "KAREN" for the owners daughter....

Here bottom side

mogogear · More

Here is her nose with the "K"

And her prop up close

The seller claimed it was from the 1920's or 30's ?? What ever It looks like it will do--- I hope. It should keep me in the shop till it warms up here...

Les

Once it's restored that will a pretty little steamer. Well done.

Wallace

That's a perfect hull to start off with

Good buy

Stitch

Nice one, mate. That will come up a treat.

tmuir

Now just to get the engine to fit in it.

Keep us informed with your progress.

James

That's great!! I'm after one of them!!

Do you mind me asking how much you paid for it?

Mamodman123

Looks spot on to me!

Not sure what engine unit would be best though?

Steve_S

Very nice indeed! It certainly looks like a classic pre-war design and should make a great steamer.

mogogear

mogogear

Rob

sweet boiler and engine. what was the price?

mogogear

I actually felt that was too high until I read that a prop kit from Tower Hobbies ( shaft , prop coupler and sundries) was $44 USD - So I am just glad it has the prop .......sweat and time I have plenty of

Mamodman123

Les

Tight fit.

mogogear

mc_mc

MooseMan

Mo, a serious offer - if the engine doesn't fit the hull, I will swap you for one that does....I have several things that might fit the bill.

That hull's a beauty BTW - very Bowmanesque. You may have to remove a few of the bulkheads, but shouldn't pose too many problems.

mogogear · First cut ..

Well I got the new Dremel into action last night and cut out the deck overlap to the rear compartment. This allowed me to also get out the upper cross-member there.

The area behind could be opened up and flattened( it is crowned arched at the moment) to accept RC servo for steering ,,,,, but we will see how this one progresses. It may be the traditional rudder with at notched rudder arm set up.

In the middle "largest" compartment- there is 6" between bulkheads- the next aft is 4 3/4 " I do intend to cut these bulkheads into a U shape - but space is what I am looking for right now.

I have a hunch that space to move somethings around for balance issues will be nice...

The nose is much more long and slender than the Bowmans- so the Modeen twin engine looks destined for the the bigger Project 2 boat (35" long) Most of the usable space between gunwalls is no more than 3.25" wide at the forward bulkhead- and finally gets to 4" at the large center one.

Man o Man- love that Dremel flex shaft tool!!!

Skinny Minnie!!

mogogear

So just to keep up the initial fun... I took time to clamp & re-glue the front bulkhead and nose of the boat. I strung the hull up and had way too much fun arranging my collection of clamps to get that just right angle. I even did some junk0wood sawing to get some of that saw dust to go in the Tightbond Glue that was recommended by Odilon.

I I really like the closing tip on the glue!! Good stuff!

I will end up moving the main center bulkhead backwards 2 inches. I will narrow it some and re-drill the prop tube hole to accommodate the "retreat". This will give me more room for the boiler and engine to actually sit in unison.

While doing all of this I discovered that the bottom of the hull- just forward of where the prop tube enters the hull was some printed words.....

What could that be......" Made In Germany"

I don't think you can make them out- but maybe Mirko might know who made this boat

Here is a shot of the emblem on the bow" K"

Who knows-- Oh well business travels for a few days. Then move the bulkhead......

BTW-I did grab an old ugly Jensen #60 I think, on Ebay tonight (($26.50 delivered!! Upside down!

So I maybe have a boiler that will keep this space ok and room to insert a meths burner...I will even have a site glass!!

Les

Looking good so far.

mogogear

Ok0 So I had a meeting cancelled... and a late flight today... a little more work... this is addicting.....

After sawing the nails through the gunwalls to the bulkhead and gently prying ip from the bottom after rocking it back and forth,
The bulkhead was free of its perch for more than 60 + years.
I removed the prop tube, shaft assembly and WA LA!!!

Open space!!

Now I have a choice- the small spacer bracket to rest at the bottom of the hull and support the drive end of the prop shaft op. The strength factor is something yet to be understood .

a little view from the front

The white stuff you see at the old bulkhead location is a plastic cellulose wood putty- to help with the areas that took a little wear getting all things "out". It is sandable , and paintable

Les

Keep up the good work.

Wallace

Coming along nicely

Mamodman123

All going far too well

Keep it up!

mogogear

Thanks all for the kind , encouraging words.... I am sure having fun watching Richard build his launch...

Well just as I was darting out the door to catch a plane on Thursday... ....a box ...........was on the porch.

.YeEE HAw!!!- it was the Modeen twin!!

A fabulous packaging job by the seller( who actually refunded me about $1.5 pounds when the shipping was less that he projected.. A first rate fellow!!

Inside was the boiler / engine combo ( original box- with the original fellows name that bought the engine in 1985. So here is a list of the contents: 4 pages of the included instructions, soft annealed exhaust pipe, engine, triple wick meths burner, Crompton boiler with Stuart Steam valve, smoke stack, boiler , drip pan, plastic water funnel, bag of fresh wicks and a drive adapter to screw on to the prop shaft..

( one small note- the steel boiler housing has some slight powdery rust - only defect I can find-- Man o Man lucky buy...Ok- I am shutting up- no complaints..............

I was flying !! All looked so great and .........................

So LARGE!!!!!!! So here is all the stuff "dry fit" on the Project 1 boat... What the heck?

" Captin' . I think we're going to need a bigger boat" ( Jaw's)

OMG what was I thinking....So I am going to have fun running this - but this engine will be running -and headed -for Project boat #2 for sure.

Nick

Dry fit looks good, but how do you get that burner in?

Bogstandard

Mo,

I don't want to piddle on your parade, but the engine is way too large and powerful.

It was designed for a displacement hull of between 36"" and 48".

Fitting it into a flat bottomed boat such as this, the C of G is way too high and would turn turtle at the first opportunity.

I don't think the hull was ever designed to take steam, with it having such a low freeboard. It definitely looks like it might have been made for a clockwork motor. Being of early German origin I would suspect that this is the case. On the larger models they used to use ones from wind up gramophones, as there was a surplus due to them going out of fashion (it is now called recycling, in those days it was called imagination).

If it ever had a steam plant fitted it would most probably have been a single cylinder with a boiler that looked like a tuna can, small and squat, to keep the C of G very low.

John

Les

What you could do is cut the boat in half, add a suitably lengthed piece and glue it back together, or go for a smaller engine and boiler.

mogogear

mogogear

Well it has been a long time since I last posted to my old boat #1 project-- My first boat hull.. I had almost considered selling it more than once- just because this former old clockwork boat hull was so narrow that it was throwing off all my engine combinations..

After playing tag with many a boiler- I finally swapped boilers with Mooseman and now I have a Mamod boiler and firebox and mated ?( for now) with my little Stuart single oscillator.. the two together only take up 7" of beam !!

Moose showed me that this was his bench test boiler- so it showed up well used. I needed to lower the profile a bit so I removed the firebox and snipped and bent the bottom flaps so the final effect was a 1/5" lower profile firebox and boiler.

That done - I stripped off all the paint and found a fairly nice shieny box... I cleaned up the boiler too!! Don't be alarmed- I plan on letting it regain all the used luster it once had...

Thanks Moose- I hope my tubed boiler helps you out as well!!

Here is the new lowered set -( notice that the round air holes are now resting on the bottom of the firebox..

And here they are sitting in the hull..I will reveal more on the finish out plans- but a small canopy towards the rear over the R/C rudder controls will be showing up soon!!

Yeah!! boat #1 is coming back to life!!-

Thanks for the assist Odilon!!

MooseMan

Greg, that looks FANTASTIC! I'm really glad the little boiler works for you - as you said, it had a lot of use and never let me down...you polished that up lovely by the way!

logoman

have to agree, fantastic looking boat, beautifully proportioned boiler/engine/hull.

nice prop too.

johnreid

Looks great! It is double fun when one has taken some time to gather the need parts to make it complete.

IndianaRog

Mo, great adaptation. You will find the Stuart ST to be a mighty little beast...bet it propels that boat along smartly.

Les

They do look well together and I do not to be a damp squid, but have you run the boiler and engine together to see what they are like as the engine is a double acting engine and uses a lot of steam.

rangerssteamtoys

The engine and boiler look like they go together. That little stuart just looks so tiny compared to all the other stuarts. I cant wait till you put it in the water.

mogogear

Les

Give it a go, you never know it might be ok, but I didn't want to see you fit everything in and then find you have a problem with it not having enough steam.

It is nice to see that she hasn't been forgotten.

mogogear

Les- do you think the little SEl marine engine uses any less steam?

steamyjim

rangerssteamtoys

MooseMan

Greg, it is possibly to convert a double acting engine to single acting by simply plugging either the upper or the lower steam port...I had an ST engine for a while that had that done,and it still ran perfectly, and on a very small boiler.

Les

johnreid

IMHO a dry run is necessary, fill the boiler and see how long it runs with the Stuart, then decide if you need a smaller engine. However the double acting one might make it a speedboat too.

Steve_S

That's a very good looking boat, and the boiler and engine look like they belong with it. I'm looking forward to seeing developments.

mogogear

Well I took the challenge of seeing what this little SE1 boiler can do.

Stuart--
15 minutes run time,
water left over when burner went out- 1 3/4 oz
Seemed to run fine all in all

SEL--
Ran about 12 minutes till it stalled.(It ran so strongly that I forgot to apply the load till 3 minutes into the test.)
1 3/4 oz water left in the boiler too. The little SEL seemed to be much more potent and rev at a higher RPM when unloaded than the Stuart!! ? Also I believe that the unloaded period may have depleted the steam reserve shortening the run time.
NOTE: Also a screw vibrated out of the SEL frame about 5 minutes into the test - so I had to pull the burner, add Loctite to the screw and re-insert- it lost some valuable time. I will re-run this test again. So another technical glitch - Sorry SEL!!

Bottom line - I assume that if I can get 12-15 minutes of boating on this small boiler- I am going to call it good and a success!!

I think the SEL might get the vote- although it is not as classic looking as the Stuart- then again this might be about the right look!!

johnreid

Sounds like a win win situation no matter which route you go.

MooseMan

Hi Greg,

12-15 minutes is about right for a boat this size. The SEL is a powerful little unit, I think it probably will have the edge over the Stuart (or Reeves) when used with a small boiler. In fact, with that boiler and the SEL you basically have an ME3!

mogogear

Les

Glad your tests worked out. As Moose said, 12 -15 minutes will be plenty of time as you will have to keep concentrating because you only have forward motion. Luckily your pond looked to be obstruction free.

rangerssteamtoys

I would try both engines in the boat. First the stuart, it had less problems. Then the SEL.

Make a mounting bracket for both engines to go in the boat.

mogogear

A speed control question..If I want to dampen the speed - and so slow my engine choice down and it's consumption of steam-

Which would you choose:
An exhaust throttle or steam throttle ? Since my engine choices are not self starting- I do not wish to increase the likely hood of a stall out in the pond by throttling back the steam pressure...that is why I am asking. I need to flesh out my logic..

Second question - I have seen a small nylon throttle ( a knob valve arrangement) Does anybody know the where abouts of such an animal? I was surprised but intrigued when I saw in in a photo - but it was used on the exhaust line where the temp is a tad bit lower??

Thanks all

rangerssteamtoys

I would go with a steam throttle, but thats just me. You can make the servo where the throttle is open even at no throttle with the radio.

This way you have a point where you can control the speed without worring about the engine dying, to set the idld you ned to put the boat in the water. Then when the engine runs slow without stopping thats where you want the servo.

steamyjim

mogogear

Thanks and I am happy to have as many weigh in on this as want to--- Does my logic seem to be correct that if I limit the speed I may be able to prolong and stretch my run time??

Thanks Jim for the link- that was where I saw it- I bet if I go to a fish / aquarium store -they have these little nylon valves for airlines!!

steamyjim

rangerssteamtoys

I agree with steamyjim, make a small burner that lasts for a long time. Like a 1 small wick burner, start up the engine on a big burner and put it in the water with steam small one. You get a longer tun time.
Plus with the idle throttle valve you can build up steam for fast little sprints.

MooseMan

Greg, I think putting a throttle on a single cylinder engine running on a small boiler is asking for trouble....you really do not want the engine to stall in the middle of the pond. Propelling a boat through the water really takes it out of on engine, you'll notice that the engine speed will drop very dramatically as soon as you get it in the water and moving. If you find that the engine spins the prop too fast when it is in the water, you may want to put a larger prop on, otherwise the energy of the prop will be wasted by cavitation. As an example, the "Bogstandard" engine in my big boat is a slow runner, couple of 100 rpm at most under load, but it drives a 4 blade 3" prop.....the boat it pushes weighs a good 20 kg, and you see how well that shifts.

It's all a bit of a balancing act, but that's where the fun is, right?

Les

Try them in the test tank first (bath) and then you can see the difference when it is running in water.
The problem is if you put a throttle in-line you are taking the chance of accidently shutting the steam off and stopping the boat in the middle of the lake with the burner still going.

rangerssteamtoys

mogogear

Thanks all for weighing in on the topic and specific point. I probably will not use a throttle- And I think I am going to use the Stuart- it just has a more "period" look to it.

Tomorrow I will get some more pictures posted. I have gotten the new read bulkhead installed, mad the power plant tray, with an incline at the rear to angle the engine so as to line up with the prop shaft, has some fun using my new lathe to modify the Stuart's flywheel. It had a pulley groove on one side of it taking up room I needed to fit a universal coupler-- so I turned that groove in to oblivion!!

I also made a rather nice stack cap

!!-

It is not quite up to Bogstandard "standards"..but it sure looks old and aged... some work with a torch, the lathe and a small ball peen hammer!! It fits the bill nicely atop the Mamod boiler....

FWIW- I did run the Stuart one last time and got a good strong 14 minutes with no load applied...

mogogear

Here are some shots of my newest phases on Boat #1

Here is a sheet metal power plant plat I made with a rear area already bent for the incline needed to mount the engine inline with the prop shaft

Not too fancy- I used some gun bluing to patina the metal a blackish tone bent up the edges to catch water and blow-by. It will have the boiler and engine mounted to it and then it will be drilled to accept screws that tighten into threaded inserts. They will be epoxied into wooden sleepers glued to the bottom of the hull. That way 4 screws and the whole lot is in and out.

Next in the work on the stack cap. The Mamod boiler already had a nice little flared stack. Brass and copper accents are a personal preference and I like they way both tarnish with use! This one was developed wit ha little lathe work - some precise application of qa ball peen hammer

and some filing!! It feels used and old already- I love the way it came out. A nice press fit!

I have installed the rear bulkhead that will separate the boiler area ( water and oil) from the R/C components. This rear compartment will eventually have a canopy or removable roof on struts. It is open till then.

Note: the small little piece of wood on the small seat board is a micro-servo mounting piece I made

Also the boiler mounting plate is in place for fitting before adding the sleepers and painting ..

Now with boiler and engine ( on mounting plate)

Lastly a close up of the boiler , cap and engine-- I hope this little Stuart works out0 It sure looks good!! Thanks again to Moose- the boiler swap really helped me move forward on this little boat. I do hope you have gotten my boiler by now!

Next to work on is the mounting the sleepers , threaded inserts, mounting the stuffing box and prop tube support, ordering a couple of meths burners from Forest( one for this boat and another for the Maddy B tug) and a rudder shaft and blade.

The final bit is designing the removable front windscreen decking and the R/C canopy..I think I am painting all the original colors - cream top hull and dark green below the water line. The front decking piece will be mahogany and varnished. The canopy????? I have no idea so far..

Cheers and thanks to all of you that pipe in with your advice - it is invaluable!!
.

MooseMan

Hi Greg,

That looks absolutely fantastic....bags of character! I'm very pleased to have been able to play a small part in it. No, your boiler hasn't arrived yet, but that's no reason for concern - it'll get here, post from the US always does, even if it sometimes takes a while.

As far as burners go - can I tempt you in the direction of a gas burner? I know they don't have the charm of a meths burner, but they're much less susceptible to environmental factors.....I replaced the meths burner on my Arrow with a gas burner quite early on, and I've not looked back really! A bit of extra outlay, but definitely money well spent.

johnreid

Your Chimney cap has lots and lots of charm, good job.

Steve_S

Looking good... nice chimney cap.

rangerssteamtoys

Its coming along, I just want to see it running in the water

I think that it will move at a decent speed.

Nick

I'm a little disappointed you didn't use the "muck"-spreader for the cap.

This boat is looking great!

logoman

looking fine Mo, I love these project updates.
on another note, I haven't heard from GI regarding the TVR1A yet.

Les

That is looking really good, especially like the chimney cap.

MooseMan

mogogear

rangerssteamtoys

johnreid

Up in the 90s up North here in the Cold Midwest

90 plus % humidity to go with it too.

mogogear

rangerssteamtoys

Ok I remember now. Well it wasnt mentioned for a while so I thought that you had already went.

Too bad you cant go about 30 miles southeast of houston

Mo's first boat project

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