Archive for The Unofficial Mamod and Other Steam Forum The Original Unofficial Toy Steam Forum Established 2006 The biggest, most popular steam forum around! Accept NO imitations! We have a growing community of regular posting members who chat about all aspects of toy and model steam.          The Unofficial Mamod and Other Steam Forum Forum Index -> Collections and pics steamyjim My secret project is revealed Over the last few months you may have  heard me say about a 'secret project' my grandad and I were building in the workshop Well here it is. It was first revealed at STIA Its a generating plant built using my old Wilesco D20 engine. I intend to fit it with a gas burner after i have sorted out the wiring If anyones interested ill post some more information about it   Overall view Water tower Generators Control panel Fan Condensing stack Power plant-a Wilesco D20 engine Engine...again Pump-with handle on Pump-with handle off Condense container Oil can THE SPIDERMAN POSTER IN THE BACKGROUND AIN'T MINE !!!!! Gas tank I intend to fit Gas burner I intend to finish and fit steamyjim What you all think? johnreid Quite impressive, it looks like the project has turned out quite nicely. steamyjim Thanks!!!!!! IndianaRog Jim, a super job there...very neat and very purposeful.  Congrats on that!!! steamyjim Thanks Rog. Your 51 was source of a lot of inspiration Mamodman123 It's the best Wilesco i've seen to date! Runs well to! johnreid It is kind of like a Wilesco 51 steamyjim Mamodman123 wrote: It's the best Wilesco i've seen to date! Runs well to! Thanks MM! Aye runs well-if you can cram solid fuel tablets in quick enough. Still got blisters all over me hands Les Well done, it looks great. MooseMan I was well impressed with that at STiA! steamyjim Did you see it running Moose? Manxman Now that is good and looks to be loads of fun. I have a feeling you are going to enjoy running it as much as you have enjoyed putting it together. John Chapman That's an impressive piece of kit, well done Jim. Nick Very impressive! Please post more info and a video. steamyjim Thanks for all the kind comments! Ill post some more info later Ill do the vid when i got it working properly Sandman I have it running on the DVD. Most impressive.   Nick Sandman wrote: I have it running on the DVD. Most impressive.   Great! Can't wait to see it on there! MooseMan steamyjim wrote: Did you see it running Moose? No mate - just admired the construction and creativity that went into that! Rob really nice model mate. are they meccano motors used as generators? where could i get one of those oil cans from? saw loads being used at stia Les Rob wrote: really nice model mate. are they meccano motors used as generators? where could i get one of those oil cans from? saw loads being used at stia They turn up on e-bay quite often. steamyjim Thanks! Yup the generators are Meccano motors The oil cans are made by Scutliffe. Try ebay or car boot sales Cedge In a single word.... Excellence!!! Steve steamyjim Thanks! Any ideas for improvements? johnreid steamyjim wrote: Thanks! Any ideas for improvements? I do believe that you have reached the point that any more might detract from what you have, That is one worthy of being proud of. Atticman steamyjim wrote: Thanks! Any ideas for improvements? Thats really good SJ, the only thought is to somehow preheat the water in the tower, really like the water tower idea though, it looks really neat Back on the Bing chimney thing again Maybe the exhaust pipe can divert through the water tower water ??? steamyjim I might look into a feedwater heater Even if it's taken directly from the boiler. It only need by used in short blasts to heat it quickly Mamodman123 steamyjim wrote: Mamodman123 wrote: It's the best Wilesco i've seen to date! Runs well to! Thanks MM! Aye runs well-if you can cram solid fuel tablets in quick enough. Still got blisters all over me hands Nutter       steamyjim Aye, what i do for steam H2o vapour Hi Steamy Jim , I saw that at stia, well done !! I thought that it was a well thought out bit of kit, I really liked the water pump set up, I think that is something that is lacking in models and gives the ability to run for extended periods. liked the use of a prop to show the current usage from the motors, and like the base. I also thought that gas would be a logical step. Well done, well designed and thought through, nice good quality build and it really looks the part. Best regards H20 bessytractor really good Jim! I also especially like the fact that with the water pump you can keep going on....and on......and on........ and on......   Steve_S That looks very good... well done! Griffin Now, that really is nice.  Very well laid out, and very creative, even down to the colour scheme. Well done mc_mc That was an amazing bit of kit, well done.  And I was pleased to make my tiny contribution.   I totally love the matching oil can too.   The gas burner is going to be a great addition and really round off a serious piece of equipment. Wallace That really is great Jim. Well done to you and your Grandad. Very very impressive. Look forward to seeing it running on the DVD Well done mate   steamyjim Thanks for the kind comments! The water pump was fitted so i can keep this running almost all day at rallys mc_mc (sorry forgot your real name) Thanks for the LEDs. Im going to have to make a extra little set up with those in to take power from the PTO Minor1PJG Superb Jim It looked very impressive at STIA and all seemed to be working very well.  A gas conversion will finish it off nicely steamyjim Thanks! Im waiting for some LEDs mc_mc and I ordered. Shall fit these into the lamps as i burnt out the ones in there when wiring it up. The gas conversion should mean i can keep a better head of steam for longer steamyjim I wonder what MR O thinks of it, this is his sort of thing Mister Occlusion Sorry mate, I didn't catch this post yet (that darn problem where new topic highlighting vanishes when I switch computers). I saw the picture of it in the STIA post and though that it's a triffic layout.  Very industrial looking, with a bit of everything. Improvements?  I can't think of anything that you don't already have, or have planned.  You don't want it to look cluttered, after all. Though I suppose you could create add-on modules on the same style of base, mount some bannana plugs on it and your platform there, and have swappable electric/electronics for various other demonstrations (like a little kit radio, or some such  ). Things you would not want to mount permanently to your current display because they might spoil the look of the thing. Though if you were to get a stepper generator, the D20 certainly has the power to get a god bit of power from one of those For your feedwater pump.  I'm toying with the idea of one for my Jensen 20. Is there anything special about the inlet into the boiler, or is it just a pipe fitting with no check valve?  Do you place the line inside the boiler above or below water level? Gearheads want to know! steamyjim Mister Occlusion wrote: Sorry mate, I didn't catch this post yet (that darn problem where new topic highlighting vanishes when I switch computers). I saw the picture of it in the STIA post and though that it's a triffic layout.  Very industrial looking, with a bit of everything. Improvements?  I can't think of anything that you don't already have, or have planned.  You don't want it to look cluttered, after all. Though I suppose you could create add-on modules on the same style of base, mount some bannana plugs on it and your platform there, and have swappable electric/electronics for various other demonstrations (like a little kit radio, or some such  ). Things you would not want to mount permanently to your current display because they might spoil the look of the thing. Though if you were to get a stepper generator, the D20 certainly has the power to get a god bit of power from one of those For your feedwater pump.  I'm toying with the idea of one for my Jensen 20. Is there anything special about the inlet into the boiler, or is it just a pipe fitting with no check valve?  Do you place the line inside the boiler above or below water level? Gearheads want to know! Thanks! I will look into making extra modules of the same style. Would the D20 power 2 steppers do you think and what voltage would each one create? The fitting is a clack valve fitted with an adapter i made because the thread on it was 1/4 40 TPI as opposed to 4mm (i think-cant remember) of the boiler. I have seen someone just put a on/off valve instead so its only on when your pumping. But i prefer to use clack valves on something like this steamyjim Can someone put some info up about how to wire stepper motors please? Would be very useuful Ill need to make some nice casings if i use stepper motors Wallace steamyjim wrote: Can someone put some info up about how to wire stepper motors please? Would be very useuful Ill need to make some nice casings if i use stepper motors This might help you mate   http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/ftopic4676-0.php Cranko Great project man , well done , is the tank an old oil filter casing   Reid ! steamyjim wrote: I might look into a feedwater heater Even if it's taken directly from the boiler. It only need by used in short blasts to heat it quickly Jim,  this is my first sight of this thread. The project is inspiring!  Grand ideas and original layout too. I am sorry I was and am of zero help in answering simple wiring questions. The feedwater pump: with your new ceramic heater I think you'll find so much heating capacity available that it won't kill the head of steam if you pump a stroke every few seconds. In the little use I've given my D21, with the new burner I find that I can top the boiler without killing the pressure if I don't pump too very fast. The more water in your boiler, the more tolerant the body of water will be to shots of cool feedwater (less percentage change in total heat) aside to Mark:  I don't know what best practice would be, but Wilesco does the simple thing: just shoots the water into the top of the boiler, no dip tube or any such thing. What would be "ideal"?  I don't know at all.  This works, though. I'm finding it easy to feed water even with a simple, direct-push plunger pump. Back to you, Jim, this powerplant: It's really neat!  I'm stoked by what you have done here. It's really, really, really good.   Thanks for this thread's photos, so many good shots of good work. Cheers, steamyjim Thanks Reid! Im thinking exactly the same thing with the gas burner. It will enable the head of steam to remain the same whilst pumping I tend to keep 1/2 to 3/4 a boiler full with the pump Does the D21 have a clack valve on the water feed line anywhere? steamyjim Wallace wrote: steamyjim wrote: Can someone put some info up about how to wire stepper motors please? Would be very useuful Ill need to make some nice casings if i use stepper motors This might help you mate   http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/ftopic4676-0.php Thanks Wallace. Shall have to look into that steamyjim Cranko wrote: Great project man , well done , is the tank an old oil filter casing   Thanks, the water tank is made from a screw gas tank from a blow torch thing. steamyjim Heres some more info for anyone who is interested... The base The base is made from about 1/2" MDF (sold in metrick) then extra sections of the same MDF are mounted underneath to make it stand above the ground. Sprayed titanium The engine The engine is a Wilesco D20. I stripped it down,removed the paint. Resprayed it-heat resistant for firebox and section of base underneath firebox. The rest of the base is gloss black. Flywheel and engine sub base hand painted. Water tower Gas tank from blow torch. Top cut out. Hole drilled in bottom with a machine peice of brass in it. The brass is fitted onto a peiceof copper tube. A second hole is drilled to the side and a fitting is soldered in. The copper pipe fits over a stand bolted to the base. Sprayed black. Inside grey Water pump and stand The water pump i had in the workshop. Mounted on a base of alluminum. Sprayed black. Generators The generators are made from 2 Meccano 3V motors. Mounted on a alluminium base. 2 bits of plastic tube connected the 2 with a shaft and pulley in between. Sprayed all over black. Alluminium base mounted onto another mini MDF base (sprayed titanium) with holes slotted in to enable adjustment. Lamps The lamps are made from copper tube bent with a washer soldered in the end containing a LED. Then soldered to a base that is bolted (removable though) to the MDF generator base. Lamps sprayed all over black. Condensing stack 2 bits of steel from a bathroom handle thing splied togethor.Copper pipe soldered into it to take the exhaust in. Brass top on top. Fitted into a machined brass stand/tank. Tank has a valve on it to enable any condense to run out through a pipe Control panel 2 bits of U alluminium section with holes drilled and milled to fit switches and meters in. 2 straicht sections of alluminium bolted to the side to hold it together. Fan Alluminium machined to a taper. Hole drilled down middle (to fit wire) Motor mounted on top with fan. Thread in bottom of alluminium bolted to base. Motor sprayed black Wiring All wiring is underneath base Heres a diagram Oil can Scutliffe oil can sprayed black Condense pot Cashew nut tin. Sprayed black. Inside sprayed grey Reid steamyjim wrote: Thanks Reid! Im thinking exactly the same thing with the gas burner. It will enable the head of steam to remain the same whilst pumping I tend to keep 1/2 to 3/4 a boiler full with the pump Does the D21 have a clack valve on the water feed line anywhere? Nosir.  The clack valves (check valves) are in the pump's body.  They are actually tiny o-rings on itty brass plungers, and so are silent. All cack an' no clack as nobody ever says, lmao! BTW, if ever you want higher voltage at lower shaft speed, d'ya know:   the gens can be wired in series for double the voltage. However, the current does not double; only the potential. Plus to minus, and then the output is taken from the minus of gen 1 and the plus of gen 2 or t'other way round; it's the same as when stringing batteries. Electricity is pretty neat.  Not as good as steam, but I've yet to meet a steam powered blender or vacuum cleaner or... just laugh and I'll shut up.   I am non-electric. steamyjim Reid wrote: steamyjim wrote: Thanks Reid! Im thinking exactly the same thing with the gas burner. It will enable the head of steam to remain the same whilst pumping I tend to keep 1/2 to 3/4 a boiler full with the pump Does the D21 have a clack valve on the water feed line anywhere? Nosir.  The clack valves (check valves) are in the pump's body.  They are actually tiny o-rings on itty brass plungers, and so are silent. All cack an' no clack as nobody ever says, lmao! BTW, if ever you want higher voltage at lower shaft speed, d'ya know:   the gens can be wired in series for double the voltage. However, the current does not double; only the potential. Plus to minus, and then the output is taken from the minus of gen 1 and the plus of gen 2 or t'other way round; it's the same as when stringing batteries. Electricity is pretty neat.  Not as good as steam, but I've yet to meet a steam powered blender or vacuum cleaner or... just laugh and I'll shut up.   I am non-electric. Whats the potential? James Potential energy?? steamyjim Aye i thought that. But i don't know much about electrics James Neither do I, but I excel at physics, I got a certificate to tell me I do steamyjim Aye im good at physics and chemistry. But biology ermm not as good-still level 7s though toxx Jim, thanks for leading me here! Impressive Anlage you have - I think I'm gonna ruthlessly copy your condensator for my D24! Can you post a video? Cheers, mate! Says old Tom steamyjim Thanks Tom! I'll get some more pics of the condensing stack if your interested-its removable I'll do a vid once i've sorted out the wiring and the gas burner toxx .... I thank you, Jim, for this wonderful thread to a truely great machine!    What is the grey floor lining around the fire box? steamyjim The grey is actually matt black Its matt because its heat resitant. Gives a bit of contrat though You getting any ideas for your D24 toxx ... sure am! Thanks, mate! steamyjim If you need any more pics just ask. Won't be able to get them until Monday though Mister Occlusion Potential is a fancy word for voltage Post all the pictures you can.  I've still not digested all of it, but it's a wicked mod. I had my D18 running, but unfortunately I forgot to check it with 2 steppers, since I was testing this nifty little AC generator I just got. Will fire it once more tomorrow, but I would say that it would have no trouble cranking 2 of them. ....How much you could load them down before the engine stalls is something else, however. But the D18 sure impressed the heck out of me.  The cylinder is naked on this one, unlike your's and Reids fancy-pants D20/21's Looks about the size of a Jensen 25 cylinder, and the torque is impressive. Got nothing but respect for these large Wilesco's, now that I've finally got one. steamyjim Would you test 2 steppers with 2 LEDs on each please? steamyjim Driven by the D18 Reid Jim, LEDs are no load at all, really, no test at all. LEDs consume very little power. Regarding terms:  amps and volts are the "fancy" words when you get right to it, terms bestowed to honour inventors. The clearer, more meaningful terms: Potential (yes, means voltage).  Potential is pressure, same as a head of water in an elevated tank. A stepper motor generates relatively great potential. Now, if the water pipe be very tiny in bore, what happens?   You can water the flowers slowly but you can't exactly flood the field. Potential.  To get the power we need current (amperage). Power is the product of potential times current  (V times I in engineering parlance) Don't ask me why I is the shorthand (put it on diagrams) for amperage/current, though! ----- P is the shorthand for Power which is the plain word for another honourarium, "Watts". Volts, Amperes, Watts =  these are the misbegotten, mind-confusing terms invented to honour inventors. Too bad that they confuse tyros. Potential, Current,  Power will serve our electrical-thought minds better. Think of water pressure and pipe size and water flow. Those simple analogies make it easier to understand why little torch batteries put in a string of 12 will not be able to spin the automobile engine's starter motor. The potential is there.   The current delivery capacity is not. An old time toy steam generator:  is wound to produce a characteristic of low potential but high current. This is because of the want of the small incandescent light bulb: 1.5V or so, but -great current- of an ampere or two. LEDs, the brighter ones, want roughly 4.5V of potential/pressure,  but perhaps only 20 thousandths of one ampere (.02A) of current. Therefore, in toy electrical generators (dynamo is an antique word), they may be wound for differing needs. I can drive dozens of small (ie: dim-type) of LEDs from my puny, weak, Hog stirling engine because I have a generator designed to make relatively higher voltage, low current, and at finger-flick spin-speeds. It does that by having a high turns count of very fine wire. This makes greater potential per revolution, but at the expense of the little generator's inability to light a small incandescent bulb: it cannot deliver much current. LED's don't require much current, therefore my generator lights several bright-type LEDs quite brightly. Yet, the Hog's generator cannot light even one, small incandescent bulb of the 1.5V/1A variety. All devices, bulbs, electromagnets, LEDs, etc are operated by current, not by "voltage". Voltage/potential provides the 'push' required by the device at hand. Shove current through an electrical device at a rate sufficient for the device's needs, and you will be converting electrical potential and current into POWER: power to light a tiny lamp, power to winch a stump from the ground, power to replace a horse. Power, most commonly expressed in either Horsepower, or in Watts, is the same, no matter the measuring system. POWER is the doing of a certain amount of work in a set period of time; how much work gets done. Potential can be ten thousand volts. If no current flows, no power is present, period. We must have a circuit of supply and return for the current (two wires). Power.  One horsepower is equal to about 750 Watts. A torch bulb running on two small cells in series (old fashioned torch), consumes V times I to the tune of about 2 Watts of power -developed in the bulb's filament-, as heat, and this heat is, some of it, radiated in the form of visible light: about one percent conversion efficiency. The old fashioned light bulb, in your reading lamps for instance, are only about 2 percent efficient in converting Power into light-- the rest of the power is gone at heat. Heat is power Light is power Motion in real life requires power Pressure is not power A bridge abutment applies pressure, but it is not powerful. A vise clamped tight applies great pressure, but it is not powerful, because, key point:  "Power" as we use it in electrical and mechanical parlance, is the doing of work, the conversion of one form of energy to another. It is pretty simple once you get past my lousy ways of putting it all on paper. Paper is powerful , (but only in the metaphoric sense and only when it carries words that might possibly move some mental weight). steamyjim My brain>>   VERY CONFUSED NOW! Les steamyjim wrote: My brain>>   VERY CONFUSED NOW! I was confused as soon as I read it was from Reid. steamyjim The reason i wanted to know about the load on the engine with 2 LEDs on each generator is because thats all i would be powering Reid Then you have no worry, Jim.  ANY toy generator can light two LEDs without breaking the least sweat. As for my writing confusing the brains of you guys, not a one of you here seems to be willing to read and learn on his own the very basics of electricity, found in thousands of textbooks, all free on the web, which textbooks I've read years ago, and by understanding the basic elements of electricity, one can do almost any simple design job of matching the generator to the load. Read a book about electricity from 1880 (free on the web, Google Books), and you will have all the basics you need to  understand how to light a bulb with nothing more than a hank of wire, some iron and hand tools to make. I'm not confused.  Why?  I am willing and eager to read. To empower ourselves, we all, each one of us, come to some terms with the technology, in order to bend things to do our will. I would like to know, but no-one has yet to tell me, how many small flashlight bulbs will a stepper motor generator (it's a magneto, actually) power up? How many bulbs of the type that a Wilesco or Jensen generator powers, how many of these will a stepper generator light up brightly? Does the stepper motor produce gobs of current? Such bulbs need little voltage, but lots of current. I have yet to see any Stepper demo running incandescent bulbs. steamyjim I have lots of nice old books on electronics from the 20s and 30s shall have to read them all Im having trouble getting 2 generators to light 1 LED each Reid steamyjim wrote: I have lots of nice old books on electronics from the 20s and 30s shall have to read them all Im having trouble getting 2 generators to light 1 LED each Jim, that's because your meccano generators are wound to produce quite low voltage of about 1.5, but great current. The LEDs you have on hand want/require a minimum of several volts before they will even fire. LEDs are diodes.  They have a certain, minimum "forward voltage", below which they remain dark. There are LEDs of other colours, typically red, that light at very low forward voltage of say, 1.5V, and which would work fine with your meccano generators. Be sure that your old toy generator is in working condition; that it can light a small (1.5V, 1A or less) incandescent bulb. If it can do that, then you can probably find some dim red LED that will light brightly enough on the meccano or jensen DC generator's output.  (LEDs require direct current; incandescent lamps can run on either AC or DC) bessytractor Reid wrote: steamyjim wrote: I have lots of nice old books on electronics from the 20s and 30s shall have to read them all Im having trouble getting 2 generators to light 1 LED each Jim, that's because your meccano generators are wound to produce quite low voltage of about 1.5, but great current. The LEDs you have on hand want/require a minimum of several volts before they will even fire. LEDs are diodes.  They have a certain, minimum "forward voltage", below which they remain dark. There are LEDs of other colours, typically red, that light at very low forward voltage of say, 1.5V, and which would work fine with your meccano generators. Be sure that your old toy generator is in working condition; that it can light a small (1.5V, 1A or less) incandescent bulb. If it can do that, then you can probably find some dim red LED that will light brightly enough on the meccano or jensen DC generator's output.  (LEDs require direct current; incandescent lamps can run on either AC or DC) I put 45 volts through an LED once pop I enjoyed reading your bit about current and voltage Reid.  I understood most of it already but you reminded (and indeed taught) me of a few things. Mister Occlusion Steppers converted to put out DC via rectifer diodes also behave differently under load. For instance.  Take a DC (or AC I suppose) generator and cross it's leads and you've got a dead short.  Current skyrockets and the generator will virtually bind unless you've got a bloody powerful engine cranking it. Short out a stepper and you simply see your lights (or whatever) go out without having the same binding effect.  Or else not nearly so bad. A pair of steppers is overkill for lighting a few LEDs. Much better might be to build up a little bus panel from which you can control various combinations of loads in any order.  You've got a basic version of that going already. One *nice* feature of the stepper motor converted to a DC generator is that the polarity never changes, no matter which way the engine runs.  For driving LEDs this ia particularly important since most of them only light when the polarity is right. This effect is due entirely to the fact that you're converting an AC source to DC via semiconductors. Remember also that LEDs themselves offer very little resistance.  Therefore your current shoots up and your generators become harder to crank.  It is recommended to put a small resistor, say 300ohm or thereabouts, in to your circuit in series with your LEDs (or before the LEDs if they are wired in parallel).  This provides a bit of a load, and Ohm's law likes that sort of thing They will be a bit dimmer, but your engine will run faster. Mind you it's also fun to leave that resistor out and really make the engine chug. Here's a good demo showing the effects of loading down a pure DC generator by dropping the resistance of the circuit to 0 Voltage on the left meter, milliamps on the right. I've got a variable resistor that I'm cranking down from 1000Ohms to Zero (ie: producing a dead short) Just ignore the commentary and listen to the engine as the load increases. redryder That is the nicest looking D20 I have ever seen and the power plant set up is awesome. NICE WORK JIM !!! Gil redryder Nice electrical lesson Reid ! Lots of good stuff. Gil steamyjim redryder wrote: That is the nicest looking D20 I have ever seen and the power plant set up is awesome. NICE WORK JIM !!! Gil Thankyou very much! I have so many more ideas for powerplants. On that not anyone got a crappy TE1a cheap with no wheels and no canopy? Reid redryder wrote: Nice electrical lesson Reid ! Lots of good stuff. Gil Thanks Gil, it comes off though as being too much of a lecture. I apologize for sounding like an "expert".  I am not expert, and there is an art to writing instructive prose, of which I am no master. Thank you bessytractor for the kind words too. steamyjim I now have a lot of LEDs (50!) that Micheal (mc_mc) donated that i shall be fitting steamyjim Alas no progress so far Shall be rewiring it soon and installing the new LEDs. Got several other projects on the go at the moment steamyjim Looks like the whole thing will be apart soon The wirings not correct, needs the LEDs replaced, I need to fit a gas burner, a joint is leaking under valve and I hope to do a full Reid style D21 rebuild laknox Way cool project! Hi SJ.  I'm looking at building a moderate fairground display that will have the "fair" on a stand-alone base so I can run it off whatever power source I feel like.  Your project's given me some ideas on mods for some if my engines, though.  I especially like the condensing stack and water pump, though I'd much prefer a powered pump like my D32el has; lazy, I guess.    Very, very nice job you did.  Hope mine's half as good. steamyjim Thanks Laknox! Sounds a good project with the fair ground I'd of prefered an engine driven pump but its just a lot of work and considering i had the hand one already i used it laknox steamyjim wrote: Thanks Laknox! Sounds a good project with the fair ground I'd of prefered an engine driven pump but its just a lot of work and considering i had the hand one already i used it Hi James.  Been so long since I've been 'round here, that I forgot your handle.  A tip for you, and others, about drive bands.  I got this from The Great Steam Toy Co. and their fair setup; use rubber o-ring material for drive bands instead of using the standard spring-type bands.  They use 2 and 2.5mm diameter o-rings which you can buy in bulk.  There's even a kit available that has cutting guides and glue.  TGSTCo. sells this by the foot and the kit, too, but it's a fair bit more expensive than going to a supply house and buying it by the roll.  They use the 2mm for final drives to the various "rides" and the 2.5 mm for primary drive between the engine and line shafts or between 2 line shafts.  When you're running several things at once, the load starts to overcome friction in a hurry, especially when you have steel on steel as with a traditional band. Lyle steamyjim laknox wrote: steamyjim wrote: Thanks Laknox! Sounds a good project with the fair ground I'd of prefered an engine driven pump but its just a lot of work and considering i had the hand one already i used it Hi James.  Been so long since I've been 'round here, that I forgot your handle.  A tip for you, and others, about drive bands.  I got this from The Great Steam Toy Co. and their fair setup; use rubber o-ring material for drive bands instead of using the standard spring-type bands.  They use 2 and 2.5mm diameter o-rings which you can buy in bulk.  There's even a kit available that has cutting guides and glue.  TGSTCo. sells this by the foot and the kit, too, but it's a fair bit more expensive than going to a supply house and buying it by the roll.  They use the 2mm for final drives to the various "rides" and the 2.5 mm for primary drive between the engine and line shafts or between 2 line shafts.  When you're running several things at once, the load starts to overcome friction in a hurry, especially when you have steel on steel as with a traditional band. Lyle My handle? Nick steamyjim wrote: My handle? Steamyjim.   steamyjim I'm confused   pauly handle means the name you go by on the forum. Nick steamyjim wrote: I'm confused   A CB handle is a short but memorable nickname used by a citizen's band radio enthusiast while broadcasting. A typical CB handle might be "Lucky Dave" or "Big Red", or even something less likely to be copied, such as "Skinky Do-Rag" or "Mister Dodo Head." The point of a CB handle is to create a unique identity while communicating with others on a CB radio channel. In a sense, a CB handle is the forerunner of the avatars and nicks often created for anonymity while participating in web chats or online forums. http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-cb-handle.htm steamyjim OK, thanks for clearing that up laknox steamyjim wrote: OK, thanks for clearing that up Sorry, James.  I forget how old I am sometimes, and toss off stuff like that.  I won't grow up, though.    And, yes, I did have a CB, still have it as a matter of fact, with a completely illegal 50 watt linear amp, to boot!  } Lyle oldstuff Getting here late, but that is one slick project you and your Gramps whipped up. For some reason the water pump intrigues me.  Is that a commercially available one or do you think it was made by a home machinist? Are the clack valves simply rubber flaps? How did you fit them? -great job, btw! steamyjim Thanks Chuck Im not sure about the water pump. It looks quite proffesional but im sure it was given to me by a person who made all his own stuff. If your interested you can buy commercial ones at about £30 The clack valve has a ball bearing in it. It just screws into the boiler but I did have to make an adaptor as the thread sizes are differant. steamyjim Finally some progress.... have fitted some grain of wheat bulbs so now have working lights on it. Will be running at the Black Country Museum show on Saturday Next job on the list... a gas burner. I now have the tile and the case ready for it bigal Happy that you posted an update otherwise I would have never seen your work.  Relatively new to forum so there's obviously alot of great stuff like this that Ive missed.        The Unofficial Mamod and Other Steam Forum Forum Index -> Collections and pics Page 1 of 1