| Archive for The Unofficial Mamod and Other Steam Forum The Original Unofficial Toy Steam Forum Established 2006 The biggest, most popular steam forum around! Accept NO imitations! We have a growing community of regular posting members who chat about all aspects of toy and model steam. |
| erikl |
That's true indeed, they have a kind of "satin" finish when they're new. I've been working on the black parts today: 
As you can see, the front plate was quite a bit more corroded than the back one. They're now getting black 
p.s. I hope you're not getting borred by all the updates i post 
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| Lewis |
it depends on the age of the sp engine to wether or not they have a gloss black or satin black firebox
the old ones like the sp1 had gloss black and the newer ones you buy these days have the satin black i dont know when mamod started using the satin though i found this out when buying a replacement chimney for my sp2 and the base was gloss black when the chimney i bought was satin 
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| Mamodman123 |
They probably changed around the same time the colour of the frames did  i.e blue to black.
Looking good so far Erik! a vast improvement! |
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| johnreid |
Not in the least bit, keep them coming. |
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| Lewis |
aye thats a point all the frames are satin black so yeh probably then they decided to use the same black for all |
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| Nick |
I would never get bored with this one, I actually look forward to posts on this one.
I can't believe how a little work and some new paint can change one of these engines. 
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| Les |
We are certainly not getting bored, keep the postings coming.
It is nice watching an engine come back to life. 
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| Nick |
Did you get rid of the pitting on the base that showed through the first coat of primer? | ||||||
| Wallace |
Looking great Erik. 
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| toxx |
... never boring, Erik! It's fun to watch and learn! You're really making impressive progress. Good job, mate!
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| erikl |
You can still see it a bit, but only on the piece that will be covered by the firebox, so it's no problem. |
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| Nick |
That's good to hear, did you use filler, or just coats of paint? |
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| erikl |
Only paint, I didn't know if I was going to make it better or worse with filler, but I might give it a try on a next engine. |
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| Nick |
How long do you think it will be before you finish this one? | ||||||
| erikl |
Still a few more weeks I think, there are still a lot of things to do: - soldering the whistle tread and solder the end cap back on - solder all the pipework - sanding and painting the chrome sides - cleaning all the small parts (and maybe repaint the flywheel) The black parts will be finished tomorow, I'll have a try to see if I can get the chrome sides into shape again tomorrow. I hope to have everyting finished before 1 april, becuase then I get the key for my new home and than don't have a lot of time to work on the engines. |
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| erikl |
the black parts are black again:
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| Minor1PJG |
It's looking good. It will be well worth it
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| Nick |
That looks great!
What did you decide on with the chrome? |
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| erikl |
well, I got some chrome paint today, and I'm now busy getting all the rust off from the surface. After that I'll try one side, I don't expect it will do very well actually, but it's worth a shot. If it doesn't look good, I might just paint them black. |
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| johnreid |
I would paint them Gray, I cant wait to see your next step. | ||||||
| erikl |
this is the paint I now have:
If looks like on the can, it would be great, but I doubt that. I yesterday took the whistle off the boiler (I needed 2 Plumber wrenches to do that, It was realy stuck). Now I need to resolder it, but it's a bit differend than the usual treads, this is wat it looks like: 
it's kind of riveted in (this must be the kind Wallace mend in another tread). You can spin it around, but it doesn't drop out like the old kind of treads. I'm a bit puzzled how to resolder this
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| johnreid |
I would think that as long as the solder goes all around it, it should seal quite well. Sure beats having one drop inside the boiler when you try to solder it. | ||||||
| Les |
Those black parts have come up very well. | ||||||
| Minor1PJG |
You could try soldering from both sides but I would think a bead from the top should find its way down and seal it very well.
Good luck
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| Nick |
I've bought paint like that and it did look like the cap. The problem is when you go to fire it, the paint will probably be ruined.
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| Mamodman123 |
Solder it as normal! | ||||||
| erikl |
I know, but maybe it will hold if I bake it. I couldn't find any heat resistant chrome paint, so I thought it was worth to give this a try. If it doesn't work, I'll get it off just as easy. This was how it looked when I got all the rust off (and there was a lot of that): 
The surface is not as smoothe as it once was (you can see how it should be on the edges) but this was as good as I could get it. and now it's got paint on it: 
Looks more silver than chrome, I wonder how it will look when it's dry.
Well, I've only soldered one engine before , but that was easier, since I could just get the tread out and clean it all, and then solder from the inside. With this one I wonder what would be best, solder form the inside (all around the tread) or from the outside?
Since you're the expert on the subject, I hop you can give me some advice 
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| Nick |
Let me know how it holds up after baking. They make a copper version of this paint and it would be perfect for Jensens. | ||||||
| johnreid |
Looks great, lets hope the paint holds up after it has been fired. | ||||||
| Les |
Maybe once its dried, you need to polish it to bring out a shine?
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| Lewis |
looking good mate
that silver paint sure makes those sides come up good just like they once were
its the heat which is the main issue though it could totally ruin the paint try baking them in an oven like you do with the black firebox and see if it makes any difference
if it works then i may have to go out and get some as my sp3 top is a mess and needs croming |
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| Mamodman123 |
Clean around it best you can as it is, then solder from the inside. You could sodler it from the outside but in my opinion it would ruin a great resto job 
That'll have to be baked on for a long time at a low heat then cranked up each hour. |
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| Nick |
So do you think the paint would hold up? |
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| Wallace |
Erik, that is coming up great.
Well done. The paint should handle the heat, so long as you bake it. I've had epoxy enamel paint hold up on fireboxes with baking. |
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| Nick |
So you don't need to buy heat-resistant paint? Just bake regular paint? | ||||||
| Wallace |
I'd go for the heat resistant paint first, but if you can't get the colour you want, it's worth trying an enamel paint.
I have had success with the epoxy enamel when I tried it. But it definitely had to be baked
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| Nick |
Thanks, I may give it a try.
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| 8_10 Brass Cleaner |
The only way you will resolder that properly is to take it out and clean it, then solder. You will never get it clean enough to do a proper job otherwise. If you try you'll make a proper mess of it, and I can't believe anyone would even suggest trying If I were you Erikl, I'd take a file to the outside of the bush, and carefully file the bush down so it is flush with the boiler. You will have to be carefull not to mark the boiler. Its no big deal structurally if you do, but it looks a mess. I'd actually file close to the boiler, then use my wifes emery board (for her nails) for the last bit. It will then drop out, and you can clean the bush and boiler and coat with flux properly to resolder. Depending how much lip is left on the bush, you may need to enalrge the lip (put the bush in a drill and file the lip bigger as it spins) or get a new one, depending how mean you are. Good news is they are peanuts from all the usual suppliers |
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| Mamodman123 |
IVe done it before by leaving it in, you can use solvents to clean first then clean around it, it can be twisted too . Doesn't matter if its messy inside the boiler either, you can't see it . Whereas removing it would practically either desroy the thread, the boiler, or both.
They are riveted in and very thing, be careful before you try to file anything! |
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| 8_10 Brass Cleaner |
James, the purpose of soldering is not to bridge over a joint with a big 'gob' of excess solder, but to get solder to flow into the joint by capiliary action. If you are going to bridge the joint, why not 'fix' it with a lump of 'poxy' metal or araldite or something? You could clean off the limescale around the bush and off the bush itself, but there is no way of cleaning the parts where they touch except by seperating the parts. Without doing this there is no way the solder will flow into the joint. Another suggestion, if you are inept at using a file use a burr in a dremel to eat the bush away from the inside, working out towards the boiler. Given enough effort it will fall out. But I assure you a file would be easier and quicker, if it was here I'd have got it out in less time than it has taken me to write this post. A new bush is all of £2.50, so what if it gets destroyed?. At least then a new bush could then be properly soldered in. |
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| Mamodman123 |
I see your point, but Erik may wish to take the easier option. I'm not in much doubt that you can sucessfully solder it without taking it out. It's a great deal of work. those threads are designed to sit very tightly into the boiler. All i'm saying is you don't really want to make it any bigger than you have to. Plus if your solder joint should fail again it will fall into the boiler. As you can't re-rivet it back in without the proper tooling. that is the fail-safe for me. In an ideal situation they shouldn't be rounded, that way, for instance if it was square it wouldn't move in the boiler. Eitherway would be just as good, but some are easy than others. I've done an SP5 boiler once this way and it's still not failed to this day, after a fair few steamings
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| erikl |
Well, I think both options could work, but mamodman's suggestions seems a lot more easy.
Where did you see them? I've seen this one, but that's not the same as the one that's in there. I doubt it's a original mamod product actually. I think I'll go for mamodman's method, if that doesn't work, I can always thy the one 8_10 Brass Cleaner suggests. |
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| 8_10 Brass Cleaner |
Good luck mate, your going to need it. You can find inserts here;- http://www.forest-classics.co.uk/boilerinserts.htm http://www.modelenthusiasts.com/M...-SAFETY-VALVE-WHISTLE-pr-295.html I have used these, you fit them from inside the boiler, they look no different once installed. As for not being a genuine Mamod product, well perhaps not, but all it is, is a piece of brass with a 1/4BSF thread in it!. |
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| Mamodman123 |
Those threads would do the job for sure!
They won't be exactly the same because they won't have the lip over the top to give the 'riveted' thread. They are more suited to the later SE range, as the SP range all had the riveted type of thread . They would fit as a last resort though.
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| erikl |
Chrome painting is done:
After the first layer it didn't look like much, but now it's got a few layers, it actually looks a bit like real chrome. Bare in mind that they looked likt this before: 
The one in front in the first picture is the one lying underneath here. I never took a proper picture of them, because I thought I was going to bin them and replace them. well, I think I'll start on the soldering now... |
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| Lewis |
Looks good mate alot better
Do you think they will stand the heat ?
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| Mamodman123 |
Looking a lot better Erik
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| erikl |
Don't know yet, I think I'll bake them next week (need a oven thermometer first) |
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| steamyjim |
Looks great Erik! | ||||||
| Nick |
For as bad as they were, they turned out amazing. 
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| Les |
Well done, looking at them now, you would not believe how bad they were to start with.
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| erikl |
yeah, you can still see a bit of pitting at the one in the front, but that one was realy rusted a lot. I've done some soldering today, the whistle tread is soldered now, and the boiler is shut one more: 
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| Mamodman123 |
Coming together nicely now
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| erikl |
it's finaly getting somewhere I hope to do some soldering on the pipework tonight (pipes are now in the salt & vinegar) and do a lot of the small pieces this week, so maybe I can get it together around next weekend
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| Lewis |
boiler looks a1 mate
cant wait to see it finished it will look like a minter
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| Les |
Did you soft or silver solder it?? | ||||||
| erikl |
soft, all mamods are originaly soft soldered too, except the SE3 G&G |
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| Mamodman123 |
If you tried to silver solder that, the boiler would melt! |
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| Lewis |
Did you have ago at making the reversing handle ? | ||||||
| steamyjim |
It wouldn't. Whenever i solder a thing into a mamod boiler i use silver solder
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| Mamodman123 |
These SP boilers are very very thin Jim, thinner than the SE range
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| steamyjim |
ooooh didnt know there was a differance...my bad
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| Mamodman123 |
Hell yeah, they are a bit too much on the thin side...might be ok, I wouldn't risk it though
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| Les |
I only asked as the solder on the middle fitting doesn't look like soft solder. | ||||||
| erikl |
not yet, one of the things I still have to do.
I agree with that, if you compare it with a older boiler, it's a,oty thinner, you can just bend it by hand if you want too. |
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| Nick |
You picked up a new boiler for it!
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| Wallace |
Really nice job Erik.
I really like the sides too
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| erikl |
Did some soldering on the pipework yesterday, I thought it wend pretty well, but now that i've assambled a bit, it doesn't really allign great 
guess I got to do some resoldering. (note to self for future restorations: solder first, paint later)[/img] |
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| Les |
Just teething problems, but the colours do look good though.
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| erikl |
thanks, on this photo you can see how much dust the silver plate already gathered, that's how long I take for one restoration 
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| Mamodman123 |
I stick nails through the holes so they line up better, but Moosey suggested toothpicks or matches something like that.
Might be easier to screw the supports down to a wooden base just so it's held in place while you solder it. As you said, paint after the soldering, never mind
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| erikl |
I indeed use tootpicks, worked great, didn't block any pipes (I think) but I didn't really think about alligning them properly
ah well, I think I'll only have to redo one side. |
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| Mamodman123 |
Stick a wet cloth over the other side when you do, will save de-soldering by accident
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| erikl |
Thanks for the advice I got the soldering joints the right way now.
I also had a go at recreating the reversing lever (with thanks to lewis for the example: 
I think the one on the bottom is the best one. |
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| johnreid |
Great job of parts fabrication. This one is well worth watching. I think it is going to turn out great. | ||||||
| Les |
They all look good to me, well done.
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| Minor1PJG |
Excellent work. You are really making a good job of this
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| Nick |
I love following this thread, please keep posting.
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| erikl |
I will, I hope to get it sinished this weekend. Still a few more things to do: - repaint and cure the front of the firebox (I baked it today, but it was painted too thick and wend bubling) - try to cure the chrome sides - solder the steam pipe back onto the boiler all relatively small jobs, but I didn't get any time to work on it last week (been very busy at work) |
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| bessytractor |
this is really coming together and I really hope you do get it all back together this weekend!
I have said this before, but I think it remarkable that all the SP5s I have seen on ebay have either been wrecks or "tired" why would peeps treat such a top line engine like that? 
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| Mamodman123 |
For every wreaked SP5 you see, you'll see 3 wreaked SE3's.. |
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| bessytractor |
and I agree with what MM said too
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| Lewis |
Great work mate
Those reversing handles look good
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| steamyjim |
Aye most of the SP5s are nackered
The reversing handles look real good Erik! |
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| Mamodman123 |
mine isn't, or Lewis'
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| steamyjim |
Sorry should say on ebay
I want a old SP5 so bad
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| erikl |
keep watching ebay, one that was in a better shape than my one wend very cheap lately |
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| steamyjim |
Bugger
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| CCairns |
The examples that are in good condition and usually come with a box go for very high prices on ebay. That is why erikl and others like myself have gone for the cheaper SP5s that may need a bit of work (mine is on page 2 of this posting - http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/about7039.html&highlight= ). erikl You have done a very good job of making a replacement reverser lever. I'm still waiting for my Mamod spares to arrive, with the SP5 burner. Hopefully soon. |
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| Lewis |
mine cost me around 50 and its not bad
a mint one with box will go a hell of alot higher |
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| Mamodman123 |
I bought mine cheap, then bought an empty SP5 box off ebay for about 7 pounds.
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| erikl |
did some more work today.
Curing of the chrome sides wend perfect, did it one hour at 50 degrees, one hour at 75 and one hour at 100, and it didn't burn away
bad news is that the soldering of the pipe to the boiler didn't go very well  once more I screwed up the soldering job
here it is: 
All I did is put some flux around the pipe, and heat the old solder that was already there, but still it managed to flow somewhere where it shouldn't go  . This realy sucks, I realy hate these soldering jobs  , how could I have prevented this? I can't think of any other way
so now I have to sand it down with fine sanding paper (the only shop that sells it around here just closed, all the big shops only have 400 as the finest grade). I'm also out of brasso now (think my other canbs are in the self storage box) so it might take a while after all to get this one finished
by the way, this was my setup: 
my parents garage realy need some decent tools to secure something like this. [/img] |
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| steamyjim |
Looks great! | ||||||
| Les |
That looks ok.
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| Minor1PJG |
If it's steam tight just clean the joint
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| Mamodman123 |
What I would have done is solder the pipe off the block at the engine frame then solder the pipe in the boiler so you've got no weight pulling it down.
If you have solder flowing everywhere then you're either applying too much heat or there is too much solder. If you need to do it again apply the heat to the pipe instead of the joint . That way it shouldn't be blasted back to the stone age
If its soldered now though leave it well alone
Coming along nicely
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| bessytractor |
oh don't worry the tools your using are the right ones
this is looking really good. I'm sure when you steam up it will run fine. |
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| Nick |
Have you been able to work on this, or are you busy with your new home? | ||||||
| erikl |
Still busy with the home (http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/about10212.html) so it'll have to wait for a while, until I get my workstop finished. |
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| Nick |
If only you could restore it as fast as you can paint.
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