MTA
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The Forgotten M158...Lying, in a box, on top of my workbench, was a dismantled M158. Today, I have started! I have started with the boiler, as it needs the most work. There was a hefty 2mm layer of soot on the underside, and guess what... The boiler still has ALL the original lacquer on it  No before pic, but there shall be ones of other M158 parts 
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Mamodman123
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glad to hear you're cracking on with it MTA!
Are you going to finish it today?
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MTA
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Not all of it probably, as I have said previously, I'm taking my time with it  I've also discovered that the steam dome has received a knock at some point, as it leans back towards the overflow plug end... 
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oldstuff
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Great news, MTA. Looking forward to pics of your progress! 
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MTA
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The boiler is now soaking in a warm water and soap mix, as per MM's guide on his website
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Mamodman123
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| MTA wrote: | | Not all of it probably, as I have said previously, I'm taking my time with it I've also discovered that the steam dome has received a knock at some point, as it leans back towards the overflow plug end... |
shame about the steam dome MTA, but doesn't the chimney sit over it?
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Sandman
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If you're going to remove the laquer you'll need to use nitromores.
Be sure to read the instructions carefully if you do as it's serious stuff.
Wear all the safety eqipment incuding gloves and safety glasses.
If you get a splash of this stuff in your eye, you're in real trouble.
It's worth all the trouble at the end of the day though. Keep us posted buddy. 
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Mamodman123
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| Sandman wrote: | If you're going to remove the laquer you'll need to use nitromores.
Be sure to read the instructions carefully if you do as it's serious stuff.
Wear all the safety eqipment incuding gloves and safety glasses.
If you get a splash of this stuff in your eye, you're in real trouble.
It's worth all the trouble at the end of the day though. Keep us posted buddy. |
I didn't use nitromores on my Bowman boiler, it should polish out MTA....but if you want it to be easier/quicker use the nitromores or dremel etc
I get nitromores on my hands and it doesn't seem to do much 
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MTA
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I'm using the tried and tested method of vinegar and salt, and then brasso. I'm not to keen on using chemicals... How long are you meant to leave it in for? That is brass in vinegar and salt?
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Mamodman123
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| MTA wrote: | | I'm using the tried and tested method of vinegar and salt, and then brasso. I'm not to keen on using chemicals... How long are you meant to leave it in for? That is brass in vinegar and salt? |
10 minutes probably not even that long......then out and get going with the brasso
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MTA
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Right, I shall be gone for a few minutes then Although I added the vinegar and salt to the water and washing up liquid as well...
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Mamodman123
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| MTA wrote: | | Right, I shall be gone for a few minutes then Although I added the vinegar and salt to the water and washing up liquid as well... |
why? You want quite a lot of salt untill it goes a light brown colour and has a head on it like a beer 
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MTA
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| Mamodman123 wrote: | | MTA wrote: | | Right, I shall be gone for a few minutes then Although I added the vinegar and salt to the water and washing up liquid as well... |
why? You want quite a lot of salt untill it goes a light brown colour and has a head on it like a beer |
It did have, and that was only a quarter of a mug of malt vinegar and two teaspoons of table salt Boiler endcaps polished, and the underside of the oiler, the rest is for tomorrow
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Mamodman123
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Make sure you get all the vinegar off the boiler, lightly polish it or it could turn pink MTA!
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MTA
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I dried it thoroughly (is that how you spell it?) before I commenced polishing By the way, this engine won't be outstandingly clean, as I believe all engines should look used and not be primped and preened and run occasionally
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Mamodman123
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| MTA wrote: | | I dried it thoroughly (is that how you spell it?) before I commenced polishing By the way, this engine won't be outstandingly clean, as I believe all engines should look used and not be primped and preened and run occasionally |
It will eventually end up dirty again
Hopefully it all goes well MTA!
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Steve_S
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I'm looking forward to seeing it MTA. The steam dome on my M158 was leaking a bit around the seam but it soldered back on with no problems.
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Mamodman123
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| Steve_S wrote: | | I'm looking forward to seeing it MTA. The steam dome on my M158 was leaking a bit around the seam but it soldered back on with no problems. |
The one on my M158 was fine thankfully, just the end caps that were messed up.
I'll be taking mine to STIA needs work on the exhaust pipe, it's like a water cannon, hence why I won't run her
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MTA
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The boiler is almost done, pics later this evening (probably just before Waking the Dead)
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Mamodman123
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| MTA wrote: | | The boiler is almost done, pics later this evening (probably just before Waking the Dead) |
Look forward to them MTA
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MTA
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I must admit, I'm very surprised at how easy it is becoming When I first bought Bowie, I thought "Oh God, I've bought a wreck!". But now I can see the transformation taking place in front of me
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Mamodman123
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| MTA wrote: | | I must admit, I'm very surprised at how easy it is becoming When I first bought Bowie, I thought "Oh God, I've bought a wreck!". But now I can see the transformation taking place in front of me |
Most engines will scrub up well cleaning the brass up makes them looki 100% better anyway.
Should be a nice model, I remember it on ebay, you have a chimney for it
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MTA
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Yep, the beloved chimney (which I know you want ) I think Steve is making one for his one, so maybe if you ask politely he could make you one for a fee?
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Sandman
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Good to hear you're cracking on MTA.
If I remember correctly that engine has the potential to be a star in your collection.
Keep up the good work and let's see the pics.
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MTA
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The only stationary that I shall keep, as I've decided it's only mobiles for me (although a '48 SE2 shall creep in at some point...)
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Mamodman123
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One of these MTA?
What do the chimneys look like?
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MTA
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The chimneys are quite long (roughly the same length as the M158 boiler itself...). Having problems here guys, I'm finding it hard to get the wadding into the spaces around the safety valve collar and steam dome, the dirt ain't shifting
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Mamodman123
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| MTA wrote: | | The chimneys are quite long (roughly the same length as the M158 boiler itself...). Having problems here guys, I'm finding it hard to get the wadding into the spaces around the safety valve collar and steam dome, the dirt ain't shifting |
Cotton bud dipped in brasso will do that MTA!
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MTA
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Right, I'm off for another hour then By the way MM, stop tempting me with that picture of your 48 SE2 with all those tools, I shall have to carry a bucket around my neck for some time now
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Mamodman123
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| MTA wrote: | | Right, I'm off for another hour then By the way MM, stop tempting me with that picture of your 48 SE2 with all those tools, I shall have to carry a bucket around my neck for some time now |
Just reminding you of what one looks like
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Steve_S
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| MTA wrote: | | Yep, the beloved chimney (which I know you want ) I think Steve is making one for his one, so maybe if you ask politely he could make you one for a fee? |
When I've done it I'll post lots of pictures and explanations.... if it's a success that is! At the moment I think it will have to be made in three pieces soldered together, and I'll probably need to make some sort of alignment tool or jig to keep everything straight while I solder it. This is all just in my head at the moment thought... I need to get some 3/4 inch OD brass tubing.
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Mamodman123
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LEt me know how you get on Steve! I'd be interested in buying one if you can get one done? Keep us updated in the mean time
Cheers
MM
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SPOKESMAN
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Aligning the inner tube will be a little tricky.
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Steve_S
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| SPOKESMAN wrote: | | Aligning the inner tube will be a little tricky. |
Yes, it could be... that's what I meant about needing an alignment jig. What I'm thinking of is just some suitably sized washers on a bit of threaded rod.
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MTA
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Right, I have done the boiler and chimney to a WORKMANLIKE standard, so nothing to shiny I have now started on the SE3 boiler. I had a thought all of a sudden "Why not do the SE3 and M158 at the same time?", which is what I shall do!! Pictures TOMORROW to tease you
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Mamodman123
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| MTA wrote: | | Right, I have done the boiler and chimney to a WORKMANLIKE standard, so nothing to shiny I have now started on the SE3 boiler. I had a thought all of a sudden "Why not do the SE3 and M158 at the same time?", which is what I shall do!! Pictures TOMORROW to tease you |
I've heard that a few times before!
Should look good when done MTA!
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MTA
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Well, I'm going to Amberley tomorrow, so there is a 50% chance that there will actually be pics 
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MTA
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I didn't feel like going to Amberley today, so here's a few pics!
As I've said, not overly shiny, although it is compared to how I first received it! Although sadly I did not keep a picture of it when I first received it, so your gonna have to take my word for it!
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oldstuff
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That's the M158, MTA? Coming along very nicely. Your pictures seem
a lot better...new camera?
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MTA
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yes, it is the M158 OS! The pictures are better as I can now use my phone, whereas the old pictures were taken with my mum's phone (which is alot older compared to my one!). So I am now putting pictures and vids up now with my new phone...
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oldstuff
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It's a welcomed improvement, MTA. BTW, that M158 boiler seems smaller than
I imagined it would be...
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MTA
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I had the same reaction when it first arrived OS! The boiler has a diameter of 45mm and it is 103mm long I was expecting it to be at least an inch longer!
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oldstuff
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Interesting...that's same diameter as a Minor 2 and roughly falls
between Minor 1 and Minor 2 in length. It's...The Bowman Minor!
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MTA
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I always wondered what the M in M158 stands for
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oldstuff
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Roly Williams
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| MTA wrote: | | I always wondered what the M in M158 stands for |
The M stands for Metal (base) but what does the E stand for in a wooden base version?
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MTA
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Thanks Roly, it's very strange indeed why they would name a wooden based engine with an E... Maybe the type of wood they used begins with an E
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Mamodman123
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Looks great MTA keep up the good work
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MTA
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Will do MM I was rather saddened when done to discover a huge, deep scratch in the overflow endcap. Not sure whether I've only just noticed it, or I did it
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Mamodman123
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| MTA wrote: | | Will do MM I was rather saddened when done to discover a huge, deep scratch in the overflow endcap. Not sure whether I've only just noticed it, or I did it |
Can it be polished out? Look to see if the scratch has dirt in it that will tell you if its recent or old
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MTA
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It's quite deep and wide
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Steve_S
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It's looking good MTA. Shame about the scratch, but it is 75 years old... bound to have aquired some character in that time!
btw I had a good look at SM's M140 chimney at STIA today. I wonder why they made them like that... its seems far too complicated for just a chimney? Anyway, I now have a good idea of what I'm trying to make.
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James
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Aye, I see you looking at SM's shiney one today
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Wallace
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| Roly Williams wrote: | | MTA wrote: | | I always wondered what the M in M158 stands for |
The M stands for Metal (base) but what does the E stand for in a wooden base version? |
E= Environment which = Trees, = Wood
Worth a try
MTA that come up nice and shiny mate, well done
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Mamodman123
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| Wallace wrote: | | Roly Williams wrote: | | MTA wrote: | | I always wondered what the M in M158 stands for |
The M stands for Metal (base) but what does the E stand for in a wooden base version? |
E= Environment which = Trees, = Wood
Worth a try
MTA that come up nice and shiny mate, well done |
LOL
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Steve_S
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'E could be right!
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Mamodman123
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| Steve_S wrote: | | 'E could be right! |
ahhhh bad joke ALERT!!!
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Roly Williams
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| Wallace wrote: | | Roly Williams wrote: | | MTA wrote: | | I always wondered what the M in M158 stands for |
The M stands for Metal (base) but what does the E stand for in a wooden base version? |
E= Environment which = Trees, = Wood
Worth a try
MTA that come up nice and shiny mate, well done |
Err... Hmm... maybe - maybe not
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MTA
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Sometime this week (if I can find the time) I'll be cleaning up the smaller brass parts e.g. piston, cylinder. The cylinder still has a bit of original paint on it. Should I leave the paint or scrub it off?
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mj
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| MTA wrote: | | Sometime this week (if I can find the time) I'll be cleaning up the smaller brass parts e.g. piston, cylinder. The cylinder still has a bit of original paint on it. Should I leave the paint or scrub it off? |
I feel a can of worms being opened with that question
my 158 has paint left on it & i'll leave there for the foreseeable future.
on this engine it get the boiler etc polished up (eventually) & thats about all. Does yours have the chimney?
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MTA
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Mine does have the chimney MJ, although it doesn't have a grooved flywheel like yours...
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mj
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| MTA wrote: | | Mine does have the chimney MJ, although it doesn't have a grooved flywheel like yours... |
The non grooved flywheel almost certainly makes it an older model but as yet i don't know a date for the changeover.
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oldstuff
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| mj wrote: | | MTA wrote: | | Sometime this week (if I can find the time) I'll be cleaning up the smaller brass parts e.g. piston, cylinder. The cylinder still has a bit of original paint on it. Should I leave the paint or scrub it off? |
I feel a can of worms being opened with that question
my 158 has paint left on it & i'll leave there for the foreseeable future.
on this engine it get the boiler etc polished up (eventually) & thats about all. Does yours have the chimney?
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I'm with mj. I think his looks good that way.
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Sandman
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With my M140 there was almost no paint left,so I polished the cylinders.
They come up a treat and if it were me I'd polish.
Just my opinion though.
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Mamodman123
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| Sandman wrote: | With my M140 there was almost no paint left,so I polished the cylinders.
They come up a treat and if it were me I'd polish.
Just my opinion though. |
Can't argue with that SM! Personally I can't think why Bowman painted them? Surely shiney brass is better than a thin layer of green paint? Heat and wear would almost always cause it to fall off.
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Steve_S
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I'd polish them too... thats what I did with my M140 and M158. I can see the argument that it's not the original appearance, but in my opinion they look better polished. Its all in the eye of the beholder of course.
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MTA
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There is only a slight patch on the top of the cylinder, so it's coming off.... The paint that is
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SPOKESMAN
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I left the reamains of the paint on my M140 cylinders, depends on the rest of the engine, and the effect wanted.
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SPOKESMAN
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SPOKESMAN
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How's this project goung MTA?
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MTA
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Sat with nothing to do (one drawback from leaving school early...) I decided to set myself a target for getting my M158 finished for the Amberley Rail Gala. The SE3 and Victor's upgrades can wait, I've always wanted to see my Bowman humm and finally run! So, the target is 13 July, the Friday before the Gala. I bought the Bowman for quite a high price (£123!) in a bidding war against SM on eBay on the 1st September last year. I steamed it up the once upon arrival, but the main part of the safety valve was missing so the burner was quickly whipped out! I have now discovered it is in the boiler itself, but I don't see the point in cracking it open to get it out. I'm going to start with the base and the burner. I think the burner will just need a quick wipe over:
Decal mostly intact, so will probably keep it. The base is quite rusty where the firebox was (like with most toy steam engines it seems). The base is quite a dull lime green underneath, is this normal?
The burner seems to have two tones of green. I think this has had a repaint at some point
How do I clean the base and burner is my question this time round By the way, the pictures are better because I bought a new camera on Thursday
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Mamodman123
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Some warm water and washing up liquid will sort the dirt out MTA! Just be gentle over the decal too as I'm sure you will!
I'm in shock I need a sit down you're actually going to clean it
Great pics aswell! Much better
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MTA
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| Mamodman123 wrote: | Some warm water and washing up liquid will sort the dirt out MTA! Just be gentle over the decal too as I'm sure you will!
I'm in shock I need a sit down you're actually going to clean it
Great pics aswell! Much better |
It has taken me a very long time, although I have until September to complete my projects At 8 Megapixels they better be good pics!
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Sandman
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I've got a feeling the paint may be beyond it mate.
If so a repaint isn't a hard job and we have access to really good decals.
I look forward to see it cleaned for a better opinion.
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Mamodman123
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Paint doesn't look that bad.....Lets see it cleaned up MTA
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MTA
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I've now cleaned the base, burner and the engine frame. The engine frame won't be repainted, but the burner and base will be. Pics in a mo
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Mamodman123
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I'm waiting
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MTA
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I hope you didn't die during the wait MM :
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Sandman
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Yep. I agree MTA.
Repaint defo.
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Mamodman123
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I'm not so sure...
I think I would personally keep it as is!
Then you have time to mull over it . But once that paint is off, it is off for good.
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MTA
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Alright lads, here's the thing: I will only repaint if there is a tried, tested and proven way off masking off the decal. I want to keep the decal, as I think there is enough there to still be identifiable. Anyone know of something that will allow me to do this?
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James
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I would keep it as it is and sell me it for £5
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MTA
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| James wrote: | | I would keep it as it is and sell me it for £5 |
Why do the words 'get bent' spring to mind?
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James
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Naa lad I wouldn't bend it, just put it back together
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Mamodman123
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You will find it quite hard to mask it off, strip the paint and spray it back over again........
You could get that masking film... but I don't know how well it will work. You need to strip that base down to metal and remove all rust ans pitting.
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SillyBilly
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Get cling film, and mask it to the base?
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Wallace
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MTA, that's a difficult one.
Bearing in mind, where I live, any rust left untreated only gets worse, and quickly.
If it were mine, I would leave it. I've only seen 2 types of rust converter. One that you paint on, it turns black, and you leave it (or paint over).
The other type you paint on, let dry, then wipe off with thinners, then you have to paint over immediately.
If you leave it, will stand out (but once put back together, maybe the engine and firebox will cover a bit.
Other option is to use wipe some light oil on the rust areas.
I understand about wanting to keep the decal. My recent SE2 purchase had some spots of bubbly rust, but I just couldn't bring myself to repaint it.
Another SE2 I recently fully restore is nice, and I like it, but lacks the charm of other engines.
At the end of the day, do what you thinks best mate. Just don't jump into it as you can't reverse the respray
Good luck
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Sandman
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I'm more and more coming to the conclusion that if the paintwork is really bad as is I think in this case, then the answer is a full resto.
Because the end result is pleasant to look at and the basic components are fully protected, it increasingly makes resto a promising proposition.
I have mellowed somewhat in my approach and take each engine as a separate entity when deciding how to tackle it's refurb.
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Roly Williams
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My philosophy on this is as follows:
Rust can only get worse - and it will. The worse it is to start with, the faster it will deteriorate. No matter how you treat it in situ, it will only be a temporary slowing down of the deterioration. Also, if you treat the exposed rust without removing the paint, the rust under the paint (and there will be some) will continue to spread.
You may think that avoiding a repaint is preserving the original, but you have to remember, the primary purpose of the paint is to preserve the metal underneath it. You have to make a decision about which is more important to preserve - the paint or the metal. I know which I prefer to keep. The only way to preserve the all important metal is to completely strip the old paint, remove the rust (not just treat it) and repaint. I know it can be a difficult decision but failing to do the job properly is a short term view, and a little selfish IMHO.
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Wallace
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You know, I'm eating my words here 
This afternoon I almost finished cleaning my engines.
One or 2, which I didn't want to repaint, well, I have looked at them closely when cleaning, and think a repaint could be in order, only for the purpose of preserving the metal.
This is on engines I never thought I would repaint. Visibly they haven't got worse, it's just that the closer look made me choose to repaint
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Steve_S
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Personally I'd repaint it for all of the reasons that the others have given. You can apply a new decal that is pretty much indistinguishable from the original... and it would look fantastic.
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oldstuff
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| Mamodman123 wrote: | glad to hear you're cracking on with it MTA!
Are you going to finish it today? |
 (quote is from page 1 of this thread, Jan 28, 07)
I know you're a busy lad Simon, so I'm tracking ebay for a restored 158 to trade you.
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MTA
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| oldstuff wrote: | | Mamodman123 wrote: | glad to hear you're cracking on with it MTA!
Are you going to finish it today? |
(quote is from page 1 of this thread, Jan 28, 07)
I know you're a busy lad Simon, so I'm tracking ebay for a restored 158 to trade you. |
I think I'd prefer the project ahead Chuck, much more satisfying when you know it's your own handy work Looks like it will be a repaint then. I think there's actually some rust under the decal anyway ( ). I have three repro decals somewhere in my pit, so I will have to use those
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MTA
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I've cleaned up a few of the brass parts today, and some are still covered in original lacquer! Should be going to B&Q some time this week to get a imitation Dremel and polishing kit
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Sandman
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| MTA wrote: | | I've cleaned up a few of the brass parts today, and some are still covered in original lacquer! Should be going to B&Q some time this week to get a imitation Dremel and polishing kit |
That's what I use MTA.
You'll get a flexi drive with it. All that for half the price of a straight Dremel.
Best value around.
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MTA
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| Sandman wrote: | | MTA wrote: | | I've cleaned up a few of the brass parts today, and some are still covered in original lacquer! Should be going to B&Q some time this week to get a imitation Dremel and polishing kit |
That's what I use MTA.
You'll get a flexi drive with it. All that for half the price of a straight Dremel.
Best value around. |
It was the first one that came up in the 'Precision tools' section of their website. Although I currently have the gear and flywheel in a tub of brasso liquid to loosen it off. Looks like it has done the trick!
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Graham-Jilly
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we use a dremal with a flex drive they are great.
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MTA
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Nice to know that it has some good feedback!
The brasso liquid did the trick. It removed most of the lacquer off of the flywheel, but not all of it. The gear from the countershaft needs a dremel going over it as the lacquer is a bit too thick for the brasso to break through
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MTA
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The lacquer on the gear as you can see is quite bad, and there is a large smear of it at the top:
The flywheel has come out much better though:
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Sandman
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One word MTA.
Nitromores.
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