Old Paint

Ron Evans · Old Paint

Ok, first time on this site.
I have 6 model boats built around the early 1900's, 4 steam and 2 gas. My Great Uncle built these when he lived in Philadelphia and ran them with a Model Boat club he belonged to, so the story goes.

I was given these boats when I was 9, about 50+ years ago and have had them tucked away in boxes and crates for most of my adult life, draging them back and forth across the country, with remarkably little damage. However. . .

Now they are on display and in need of a thorough once over. The smallest of the boats is damaged on the transom. It's fitted with a steam outboard, two cyl., and the outboard snapped the tansom off, cleanly, about 3/4" below the top, along the grain of the wood. It wasn't packed properly during one of my moves.

All of this has been repaired, filled with wood putty, and sanded. I'm ready to paint - however I have no idea what kind of paint was used originally, and don't want to cause more damage with blistering etc.

I'm looking for someone who may have recently stepped out of the "way back" machine, and has some experience with the type of paint they used back then. Short of that I could test new paint on an inconspicuous part of the boat.

Any suggestions, thoughts?

MooseMan

I've recently used a domestic paint matching service to get paint for a 1930s Bowman boat, with good results.....

I'd love to see some pictures of your boats....the twin cylinder outboard sounds like a Polly Wog, am I right? They're gorgeous!

Welcome to the forum!

IndianaRog

Welcome to the forum Ron from another Yank. I hail from Indiana and it's great to see another American join our ranks.

You are amongst good company with your boats and boat questions. I don't have one myself but a number of our members do. I see the admiral of our forum (Mooseman) has already chimed in, so you are off to a good start already.

Again, good to have you join us.

cheers,
Roger

Sandman

A big Scottish welcome to the forum Ron.

Our resident boat population is getting bigger by the day.

I'm sure you'll get all the help you need.

Hope you enjoy your stay.

Les Marsh

A big hearty welcome from Bournemouth.

mogogear

Hello from another new member here. I also am into steam boats... but very newly on the road with them... there is a many a seasoned boat source here. They are sure helping me.

I live in Portland- so welcome neighbor!!

I can't wait to see some pictures of your "family" boats!! That outboard sounds pretty rare!

Nick

from Minnesota!

Sorry, no steam boats in my collection.

Ron Evans

Woah!
Thanks for the input so far - looks like I'll just have to try some paints and see if they crinkle. As far as the manufacturer of the outboard - that's why I'm here. I suppose a picture would help you folks ID it for me.

Pictures to follow

Ron Evans · The Fleet

"The Fleet"

The boat in the center is "Comet". It's about 4 feet long, has a 4 cylinder steam engine which is fired with a self pressurizing burner, although it came with a bicycle pump with a special fitting that screws into the fill fitting on the burner.

I had it running a long long time ago, but I think the copper fittings are loose, loosing presssure in the burner. I need to do some research on the burner for this boat and the Liberty Ship.

This will definitely outrun a rowboat and I spent the better part of an hour rowing frantically trying to keep the boat in sight.

Imp - Outboard missing in this photo - boat is under repair with damaged transom

This is the outboard off of Imp. Someone thought it might be a Pollywog - I can't find any identifying marks - yet

I believe this is a "Liberty Ship" about 30" long, fitted with a two cylinder steam engine and fired with a white gas self pressurizing flame thrower type burner.

I haven't been able to fire this one yet - although I set it on fire a time or two trying.

The rigging on the cargo poles is in need of replacement. There are lifeboats that fit into davits, and a small cannon, secreted under a "dog house" on the rear deck. Very fine detail and the hull is ballasted with a concrete like substance.

This beauty "Dolphin" about 30" long, stepped hull, single cylinder, rope start (still have the original rope) gasoline engine with magneto and battery box. I've never had it in the water, but was able to run the engine as a boy. At this point the engine will turn over by hand, but it's too gummed up to try and start it.

If you look closely at the front side windows you will notice some lace curtains. The detail on this is amazing and it is all original.

"Rambler" Maybe 25" long, sterno, pan fired boiler with a single cylinder engine.

It was repainted (spray) in the early 1970's while I was quarantined with a case of adult measles. The original paint had checked.

This is a crowd pleaser, and easy to keep up with in a row boat. None of these boats are remote controlled and all but one run untethered.

This is "Splash" gas & oil, about 20" long. If you look closely at the bottom, you can see about 3 steps to get it up on plane. Both this boat and Dolphin are fired by spark plugs, tiny little things. You can see the plug wire in the photo as well as the spark plug.

To rope start it you use an large 1.5 volt battery that hooks into the electrical system with a few plugs. When the engine runs, switch over to the small battery box. As a kid I would start it on the beach and wade into the lake chest deep and run it until it ran out of gas. It was tethered - to my hand.

First time I ran it I put in too much gas and got quite dizzy, staggered out of the lake, up a ladder onto the dock only to fall off the other side. I remember seeing my dad sitting on the beach, slapping his leg and having a good belly laugh.

Les Marsh

You do have some very,very nice boats, I'm envious already.

Nick

Very nice collection and boats. Thumbs up!

MooseMan

Brilliant collection.....that engine's a pollywog all right, very rare indeed!

Ron Evans · Polly Wog

Well, I was cleaning up the outboard tonight, and discovered rather boldly cast into the top of each cylinder

Boucher

don't know how I missed that. . .

So - looking for "Tribal Knowledge" here . . .

Tell me all you know about Boucher

MooseMan

Have a look here, all the way down the page:

http://toyoutboardmotors.com/Oldest.htm

and here

http://www.vallejogallery.com/ite...OLLY-WOG&category=&id=269

Apparently one of these sold for over $7000 a couple of years ago at James D Julia auctioneers, see http://www.jamesdjulia.net/press_releases/pr_2007.asp

They were made by Horace E. Boucher - good article about him here:

http://www.tinplatetimes.com/Tinplate%20History/Horace/horace.htm

Your boat was also featured in "popular mechanics" as a build-it-yourself, but yours does look like a factory original....the fact that your engine is stamped "Boucher" rather gives the game away. I think the hull may have been repainted and re-named, but you still have an extremely rare and valuable little boat there....hope you treasure it!

HTH,
Moose

tmuir

Wow cool boats!

steamyjim

That outboard is sooooooooooo coooooooooooool!!!!!!

Ron Evans · More & More Old Paint

Well - Mooseman, you really broke open the vault here.

It's definitely a Boucher model similar in almost all respects to the "POLLY WOG"

EXCEPT - "IMP" is cream colored, inside and out, not a repaint. The cream colored paint extends up under the fire shield (probably asbestos) under the cowling and all the way up to the bow, below the cowling. I also carefully checked out the sides of the hull for sanding marks indicating someone may have sanded off Polly Wog.

There is no indication of a resand or repainting at all. The boat must have been painted before final assembly. The other discrepancies I have noticed between the picture from the Museum and IMP are, IMP has a cleat on each side towards the rear of the boat, and IMP also has a flag holder on the bow out of brass or copper.

So I'm betting the boat was bought as a kit. . .

Now, off to the latest discovery. COMET, the boat in the center of the first picture is powered with a Boucher model S-64. I was able to lift the specifications off the Internet (Thanks to Al Gore - - - he invented the Internet you know)

This 4 cylinder engine is capable of 3500 rpm with less then 75# steam. the engine was originally sold for $45.00 ready to run, or for the do it yourselfer, $20.00 for a rough casting set with hardware. A lot of money back then.

Well, I'm having a wonderful time and I'm very happy to have found this site.

Cranko

Big welcome to the Forum from New Zealand Ron, I have a polly wog which is missing 1 Cylinder. I cant open the pictures you have posted to see your collection

MooseMan

Wow - two Boucher engines......that's something you don't hear every day.

here's a picture of my own outboard....sold in 1932 by Clyde Model Dockyard in Glasgow.

Ron Evans

Wow,
What a little cutie - it looks like th rudder portion is steerable, is that a tiller that trails off to the front of the engine, at first I thought it was the exhaust, but that's up higher.

I juust think it's fascinating that some of these engines and boats are over 100 years old.

I poured a glass of red wine this afternoot (Sunday) and fired up "Dolphin". Last night I disassembled and cleaned the engine. It was in good shape, but gummy.

She ran fine for a couple of minutes out of the water, then the shaft started chattering. I was going to plunk it into the hot tub, but the exhaust was spitting and sputtering an oily water mixture from the overhaul last night. I'd rather not drain the hot tub and reheat all that water.

While I was cleaning the engine I looked for any markings, but found none. It's a really husky engine. Single Cyl, oscellating, with a really short piston with it's connecting rod going through a guide on the botom of the cylinder. Both this guide and the cylinder head are held onto the cylinder with 4 machine screws on each end. All brass. And, as in the Boucher design, a pivot rod extends through the block (did I mention this is a Vertical motor) and is secured with a pressure spring and two nuts.

The boiler however is square and covered in . . . Asbestos.

So it's off to another week of work, and poking around the internet trying to figure out this engine.

Really nice outboard, I love the shape of the prop.

MooseMan

Thanks Ron, yes it's steerable via the tiller.....it runs like a demon. I'm still looking for a suitable hull to put it on, the one that came with it is far too large.

Ron Evans

Well,

You could always build one, to the scale of the motor. You'd need a boiler too. You up to buiding a boiler? Have you ever disected one, or seen one apart? I haven't, but I bet you could silver solder one up.

Hummm, sounds like a project for a retiree, or a very lonely person.

MooseMan

Oh, it'll happen Ron! Just finding the time, I've got quite a few boat-related projects on at the moment. I've got several boilers I could use, and thanks to Jogn "Bogstandard" I finally plucked up the courage to try silver soldering, with which I'm now reasonably confident.

There was a set of plans for the Polly Wog hull on eBay a while ago - unfortunately I got outbid! I offered the buyer 10 bucks for a photocopy, but no response. Ah well.

Ron Evans

I did some silver soldring a few years back.

We sell pumps to the fishing fleet out of Seattle. A little family business.

One day this fisherman walks in and falls in love with some stainless pumps and motors and asks if I can make the connections between the pumps and his system with Nickle/Alum/ Bronze pipe and fittings, with Silver Solder.

I'm thinking - I know how to solder . . . everyone knows how to solder - - - Sure, I can do that. . .

A week later I get the OK - blew the budget . . . IN A DAY. . .

Silver Solder is not cheap (inexpensive) and it does not come by the inch. Rather the Pound - many many inches - - - very many

And it doesn't take much to solder up a few joints. Couple of three rods maybe. So I have this surplus rod - should you be intersted - If you can afford the shipping and handling.

So you've got the boilers lined up and just need the time.

I've enjoyed chatting with you, but excuse me . . . I've got GAS!

I finished with IMP and Rambler last evening, and put them back on the shelf. Tonight I'm exploring "SPLASH" Gas Engine . .

The only markings on the engine were:

G.H.Q.
N.Y.
U.S.A.
AERO

I've been all over the internet this evening - (night really - switched into Daylight Savings Time Sunday morning - -

BLEW that one. . .
I've got this little battery alarm clock that "Cock a Doodle Doo's" on the hour and I reset the alarm ahead an hour rather than the clock . . . I thought I had it - I WALKED INTO THE OFFICE THIS MORNING - TOTALLY REFRESHED. . .

I've been typing all combos of GHQ . . . AERO and don't seem to be hitting on the engine. This is boxy - cast stuff - eight screws holding the head on. Vertically finned heads - 4" flywheel

Anybody out there?
gas guys

And. . . Dear "Great Uncle" Warton of Philadelphia (maker of these models) made a cowling out of the inside of a copper can. With quite a bit of etching on the underside, beautifully clear and enduring. Clear as a bell, all but the part he cut out to make the air scoops, making the piece a puzzle - the only clearly distinguishable (big word) markings:
...220 market street, Philadelphia
and
Mfg. by General Etching & Mfg. Co. Chicago

I'm betting it's a fruit can.

Good night.

Ron
(not shure how many dots to put in front of 220 ?)

Les Marsh

You might be interested in this one.

http://cgi.ebay.com/Bateau-a-vape...PageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

mogogear

I stumbled on that one myself Les... pretty nice if the bottom end of the motor wasn't missing-- that would be guesswork and handmade...

Very nice twin arrangement though

talluncle31 · Boucher 'Polly Wog'

At an auction last night I had a chance to see a February 1929 Boucher boat catalogue. The 'Polly Wog' cost $25 rtr, $$22.50 as a kit and the engine and boiler as a pair cost $18. No wonder they are rare.

Murray Wilsonl

Old Paint

The Fleet

Polly Wog

More & More Old Paint

Boucher 'Polly Wog'