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Whilst I was in the UK Kritika managed to win himself a Renown roller off ebay UK.
It was in pretty sad state but it did have the original rear wheels which mine does not.
A deal was struck and the roller was sent to me for restoration and I got to use the rear wheels to make copies for myself.
I will be sending the wheels and other cast parts to Xchainsaw to make copies of for himself and for the restorations in the near future.
It was funnny how things work out as the day the roller arrived where I was staying I was going to visit Rob from the HMEM forum and have a try at casting. So within 10 hours of me receiving the roller I had cast myself copies of the wheels for mine.
Here are the 2 rollers side by side and a small collection of parts infront of them I already had to start the restoration of both rollers.
There is a lot to be done so this won't be a quick job but expect to see steady updates in this thread.
scalex
thats a good start with the parts... and don't they look great side by side
Atticman
Really looking foreward to progress on this one Tony
MamodFan
Those Renowns really do look "right"
Kritika
Oh they really look great side by side don’t they?
It’s amazing to think that one day in the distant future we could see one of your famous videos of them both steaming together.
Its looking good Tony.....
tmuir
That will be some time off.
I've had to work 2 nights this week so haven't been in my workshop since I took these photos.
I hope to remove the boiler from the chassis tonight so I can get a better look at what needs doing.
Wallace
Look forward to seeing it happen. They are such nice looking engines
Les
It will be great to see both of those running together.
xlchainsaw
this is terrific! rob did a great job on the wheels and im glad you got to see how easy it is.
tmuir
xlchainsaw wrote:
this is terrific! rob did a great job on the wheels and im glad you got to see how easy it is.
I started to dismantle the roller tonight.
Should get the wheels off tomorrow and then next week will send you a front and rear wheel, the large brass pulley and the flywheel which is used on the windmill and the roller.
Pictures up soon
TE1DRIVER
wow thats immense good job!
tmuir
My internet was playing up again earlier this evening so I decided to go out into the workshop.
Kritika's roller has had a hard life and has been restored atleast once before. A bush has been fitted to the engine frame and then soldered in place to the frame and chassis, so this had to be desoldered to remove the boiler.
These two holes should be the same size but it can be seen how the hole for the crankshaft has been drilled out to take the bush.
Here is the bush still in the engine frame. The frame hadn't been cleaned properly so the bush wasn't soldered in very well. As the frame has also been drilled to take the bush I've decided to keep it in. I just cleaned it up and resoldered it back into the engine frame.
Now another mod that was made was the exhaust pipe.
This had to go as it is smaller diameter than the steam pipe so would hinder performance. It also has a sharp kink on the bottom right plus any condensate would drip back down the flue onto the wick burner. ALso notice how the whistle pipe is missing. The pipe has been removed and a bush soldered in place and a brass screw put into it. This will stay unless we manage to find an original whistle.
Exhaust pipe gone. Not sure what I'm going to do about the hole in the chimney yet.
Don't know what happened here but it all will need to be replaced except the trunnion bolt and cylinder faceplate. Check out that home made piston rod.
Even the spring is wrong and the nut is not the correct thread.
On the left is the overflow plug from the boiler which is missing it's T bar. On the right is one of my repro ones.
I was just going to fit the repro one but realised the original one was in good enough shape that it just needed a new T bar.
Here it is with it new T bar back on the boiler.
Not much really done tonight, it was more to just try and figure out what I needed to do. Next job is a new cylinder and piston.
Les
A small start but a start indeed.
xlchainsaw
its a great start. ......about the whistle.... what about modifying a te1 whistle??? its roughly the right size...replace the "handle" ..maybe make the whistle "bell/pipe "slighty longer... if you didnt know better!!!!!!!???? it would be a close look alike without much work i might have a spare te1 whistle if it was going to be used as such.
tmuir
We have plans to get an original Renown whistle but before that happens want to make sure I can get the rest working.
tmuir
Just managed to sort out the photos and video of the casting of the wheels for the roller. This was done a few weeks ago when I was in England.
Thanks Rob for giving me a chance to do this.
Forgot to take photos of the moulds being packed, only remembered my camera once the furnace was on.
This is the home made furnace.
This thing can get hot enough to do cast iron.
Adding some more scrap aluminium
Nearly Ready
Ready
A short vid of the pouring
Just cast.
Castings just knocked out of the sand. They are all still VERY hot.
Cooled and sprews cut off.
Kritika
Wow that’s a its a great start.
I was well impressed with the Renown Wheels Casting Video, now that looks like something I would like to get into.....
rangerssteamtoys
very nice castings I really want to get into casting.
27ace27
Wow! learning to cast metal must have really opened up a whole new world for you!
tmuir
27ace27 wrote:
Wow! learning to cast metal must have really opened up a whole new world for you!
I still don't have my own set up yet but even just getting to spend an hour or so helping to do these castings taught me a lot and will save me hours worth of mistakes when I finally get set up but I expect that will be atleast a year off as I have so many other things to do first.
xlchainsaw
wonderful vid. its hard to get good casting vids when working alone! ..you do the work of making the molds and melting the metal... but nothing beats opening the box and seeing the new item for the first time and you are the first to see the item . this is the cause of the casting bug. im getting a great thrill out of casting my own lathe stock at the moment out of brass.it saves hunting around for short pieces of the right size. rob is a very advanced metal caster and its a pleasure to know him. robs furnace does melt cast iron but the high costs of the melting pots as seen in the vid makes cast iron on a small scale very very expensive!! the melting pots cost $130 plus postage here in oz $85 us and...only safely last for 5 melts!! so thats $25 per melt before you start! $15 to $20 for fuel per melt so cast iron about $40 to $50 per melt compared with $4 to $5 per melt for aluminium. plus the cost of scrap metal. friends of mine are experimenting with making their own pots suitable for cast iron and if successful may tempt me into cast iron in the future.
tmuir
After a week of not getting a chance to get into my workshop I got out there for a couple of hours tonight.
I need to make a new piston and cylinder for the roller so I decided to start with the part that would let me use my new tool I had just made.
I need to make something like this photo below.
This is the cylinder and piston I made for my windmill.
I am making the round part at the end of the piston rod that the crank fits into.
I'm try to always make atleast 2 of what ever I'm making as it only adds a few extra minutes but slowly builds up my stock of valuable spares so I'm making 2 of these parts.
Here is the part faced, and drilled for the crank.
I've marked it up and I'm about to drill the holes which will be threaded for the piston rod. Here is my new finger plate in action holding the rod in place.
Holes drilled
Now tapping the holes.
What is hard to see in the photo is I have a short length of silver steel bar in the drill chuck with a point put on it from the lathe to help hold the tap holder upright.
Its not the best but it will do until I make a proper tap holder.
Parts have been returned to the lathe, machined down to size and I'm now parting off the first one. If you look closely you can see the chips flying.
Both parts parted off. Tomorrow I need to spend 5 minutes finishing them on my watchmakers lathe. The backs need to be cleaned up from where they were parted off and chamfers put on the edge of the inside hole.
IndianaRog
Tony, it must be very satisfying to literally create parts from bar stock or scrap...amazing and they look great.
tmuir
IndianaRog wrote:
Tony, it must be very satisfying to literally create parts from bar stock or scrap...amazing and they look great.
My wife doesn't understand it but I enjoy it.
Especially as I have enough tools, material and equipment now that I don't need to stop and wait for a week for some vital item to arrive before I can make the next part.
Once I've finished the cylinder and given it a test run I'm going to make another tool before moving onto the next part of the roller.
I've got a long list of tools still to make.
alan2525
Who did the casting for you, those look very clean with some good fine detail on the spokes too! I've got to sort out some patterns but will be needing some aluminium castings shortly!
Kritika
Looking good Tony
bessytractor
we used to do an awful lot of aluminium casting at school, especially in 6th form. I remember helping my friend Nathan do a heck of a lot of it. We poured the metal into the moulds wearing flame retardant leg coverings over our suits, those were the days!
Excellent video, very satisfying to watch and what a brilliant outcome!
tmuir
alan2525 wrote:
Who did the casting for you, those look very clean with some good fine detail on the spokes too! I've got to sort out some patterns but will be needing some aluminium castings shortly!
The castings were done by Rob from the HMEM forum.
He did ask me to point out if I'de allowed him to remove the original paint and do a bit of work to the original wheel he could of got a better result.
I still think they came out pretty well considering we just took the wheel off the roller, wrapped some tape around the outer diameter to put a bit of an angle on it to help lift it out of the sand and then just cast it.
From start to finish it probably took us just a bit more than an hour although I spent several hours their that night chatting to him.
tmuir
Not much progress tonight.
It was too cold in the workshop and I have an early start at work tomorrow.
Just finished off the parts I made last night on my watch makers lathe and looked out the 1/8 inch brass rod I need to make the piston rod.
Dr. Rog
Superlative thread
Thanks for a simply wonderful thread tmuir, packed with information.
Please keep up the detail, we are all geeks here. For instance please give some information about speeds and feeds, why your watchmakers lathe is best for finishing, etc.
Thanks again
tmuir
Re: Superlative thread
Dr. Rog wrote:
Thanks for a simply wonderful thread tmuir, packed with information.
Please keep up the detail, we are all geeks here. For instance please give some information about speeds and feeds, why your watchmakers lathe is best for finishing, etc.
Thanks again
Will be posting up some more photos in a few minutes but to answer some of your questions above.
I use my watch makers lathe to finish as the parts once parted of the parent rod are just too small to be held by my 3 jar chuck on my big lathe.
My watch makers lathe has a much smaller chuck and also collets for holding small items.
The photos I'm about to post up are of parts only 4.7mm in diameter and about 2.5mm long, far to small for my big lathe but using a 4.8mm collet I can hold them perfectly to finish.
As for speeds I'm assuming you mean lathe or drill RPM for a given diameter or material.
Ages ago I made this cheat sheet which is what I use which I've attached below. Its an excel spread sheet and these are the theoretical best speeds but in reality you can go a lot below and a bit above and its still ok.
Click to download file
tmuir
Made a bit more progress tonight.
I made the piston rods which were a simple cutting and facing some 1/8 inch brass rod to size and then tapping the ends.
I made 3 as the Roller needs one, I need a new piston for another Renown vertical I have and I've just been asked to make some parts for another members Renown including a new piston and cylinder so I will be making some extra parts for that one.
The cylinder that came with Steves roller had lost its nut for holding the spring on the trunnion bolt and someone had replaced it with another nut they had found but it is the wrong thread size, so I decided to make a new nut.
It is basically a 4.7mm rod which I rolled a rough file across to give it a light knurling effect then drilled and tapped 1/8 BSW.
I only need one but keeping to my idea of making extras I made three. This nut is also used on Renown safety valves and to hold the burner in place on the rolelrs.
I've just taken photos of it being finished off in my watch makers lathe so people can understand why I use this lathe.
Here is is fitted into a 4.8mm collet on my lathe. You can se the jagged bit of brass sticking out from where it was parted off the bar.
Cleaned up and a slight chamfer put on the inside to get rid of the weak part of the thread.
Here are all 3 nuts with one fitted to the cylinder and the 3 piston rods with 2 fitted to the parts I made earlier.
Dr. Rog
Thanks for the details - keep it up.
tmuir
Made the piston tonight, sorry no photos of that as I was in a rush to get to the next step.
First a couple of stills.
Now a video.
Thats the first stage sorted, we now have a running engine.
Now to work on getting it mobile....
Kritika
Now that’s brought a big smile to my face.
What a brilliant runner it is
I’m happy as hell this lovely engine is now coming to life in Tony’s more than capable hands and especially as its being restored in its homeland.
I am mesmerised by the detail that is going into this.
Now Tony when are you going to tackle the wheels on your one, it must be his turn now?
Les
That's great to see it running, you are doing a grand job, I was wondering though why you didn't use the original two wick burner??
dervard94
Looks and runs brilliantly. Can't wait to see it driving itself round.
tmuir
Kritika wrote:
Now Tony when are you going to tackle the wheels on your one, it must be his turn now?
I've been waiting for the weather to warm up a bit as I want to paint the wheels before I machine them.
I will be giving this a few days break as I want to make myself another tool I need for a another project and also I need to send some parts to xchainsaw for him to cast.
Les wrote:
That's great to see it running, you are doing a grand job, I was wondering though why you didn't use the original two wick burner??
The soft soldering has come apart at the seams, so it needs resoldering before it can be used, else I will have flaming meths dripping everywhere.
IndianaRog
Tony, you have resurrected another Renown and it looks like it's going to be a brilliant looker and runner. Very cool and pretty rare from what I have seen.
Sandman
Excellent work there Tony.
Keep it up mate.
Wallace
Great stuff
scalex
awesome Tony great job
Stitch
I am enjoying this thread very much. Great pics and excellent work.
xlchainsaw
thats a big improvement. did you lose the whistle mount??? : i couldnt quite see it in the vid.
tmuir
xlchainsaw wrote:
thats a big improvement. did you lose the whistle mount??? : i couldnt quite see it in the vid.
Yes the whistle, threaded bush and pipe are all missing on this roller.
Someone has fitted a bush and a screw to where the whistle pipe used to go.
If we manage to get an original whistle for the roller I will fit a new pipe and whistle bush, but until then it will stay as is, mainly because there is still plenty of other work to do to the roller.
tmuir
I decided it was time to get back on with this again.
I set the roller out on my bench to look what to do next and then I saw this dodgy character come along.
I told him to move on and he just tipped his hat at me and walked off.
I went to the other side of the workshop and came back and saw this.
I knew I should of watched that guy closer.
No I've actually removed the casting as I plan to send one of each plus my pulley to Xchainsaw so he can make castings of them so I can finish this roller, have myself a set of spare castings and a new flywheel I promised to make for another member.
Here are all the bits I will send to xchainsaw tomorrow.
Now the next little part to make is the domed brass nut that holds on the front rollers and the rubber treads on the friction drive.
My roller needs one, Kritika's 3 and another member 2.
So I need 6 all up but I decided to make extras as they are handy to have.
The first part is easy and takes about 3 minutes per nut.
The end of the hex is domed over using my forming tool.
Then they are parted off.
Here are 7 I knocked off in just over 25 minutes.
Here they are again with the burs from parting off cleaned off.
The next job is to drill and tap them 1/8 BSW but as I need to tap so many and I use the 1/8 tap a lot to make parts for Renowns I've decided to spend the next night making myself a tap holder for my 1/8 BSW tap, which once made will speed up tapping a lot.
Atticman
tmuir wrote:
I decided it was time to get back on with this again.
I
I knew I should of watched that guy closer.
.
Now thats where James has been
tmuir
For a guy that doesn't like to leave Lincolnshire he does get about a bit.
Burnmafingers
I
The thieving bugger didn't even have the decency to jack it up on blocks
Excellent restoration project thus far.
Kritika
tmuir wrote:
.
Oh Noooooo… what’s happened to my roller wheels
Come-on James you know they wont fit on your Landover
Kritika
tmuir wrote:
.
Oh Noooooo… what’s happened to my roller wheels
Come-on James you know they wont fit on your Landover
tmuir
Burnmafingers wrote:
I [img]
The thieving bugger didn't even have the decency to jack it up on blocks
Excellent restoration project thus far.
I meant to bring some lego bricks out into my workshop for the photo but I forgot and it was raining and didn't want to run back inside in the rain for them just did the photo without them.
Dr. Rog
looking good,
keep up the good work.
The flywheel appears to have a little run-out, it it a problem or does it balance out OK?
Les
Looking good so far, that is if James keeps away from it from now on.
tmuir
Dr. Rog wrote:
The flywheel appears to have a little run-out, it it a problem or does it balance out OK?
Yes it does because the crank rod is slightly bent.
I will probably make a new one when I cut to size and thread the rod for the large pulley.
tmuir
Managed to spend some time in the workshop today and got the tap holder half made.
Hopefully I will get an hour or so out there tomorrow and I will finish it off so I can complete the domed nuts on Monday.
xlchainsaw
all seems to going well on the rollers! i look forward to doing my bit on this project! it will be great to actually see and hold a renown rear and front wheel!!!!there is big a difference between a pic and the real deal!
tmuir
Finished the tap holder today so I can get back to the domed nuts.
Here is the tap holder been held in my shop made finger plate and uses my previously made 3mm tap holder to tap the thread for the grub screws.
Checking the fit before blackening.
My new 1/8 BSW tap holder next to my 3mm tap holder.
So now back to the domed nuts.
xlchainsaw
your shop made tools are building up! next will be a bigger tool box!
tmuir
xlchainsaw wrote:
your shop made tools are building up! next will be a bigger tool box!
I already have 7 toolboxes in my workshop.
1) Silversmithing toolbox
2) Pockwatch fixing toolbox
3) Clockmaking toolbox (Just started to fill this one)
4) File toolbox (Yes I now have that many files they have their own toolbox)
5) General tools toolbox
6) Model engineering toolbox
7) Toolbox stashed in the cupboard full of odd and rarely used tools
Plus I have a small set of draws on my shelf for drills, taps and reamers
What can I say I like my toolboxes.
At some point I'm going to have to make myself a nice wooden tool chest
tmuir
Now I have the tapping tool Back to the domed nuts.
Due to the small size of them I can't hold them in the jaws of my lathe chuck and my watchmakers lathe doesn't have a tails stock drill so I've got to work backward on my big lathe.
The nut is held in my small chuck that fits in the tail stock and the centre drill is held in the lathe chuck. This is used just to spot the hole so the tapping drill doesn't wonder.
Its then drilled 3.5 to 3.75mm deep with the 2.65mm drill
The thread is started with a 1/8 tap that has just had the point ground off.
Next I used a tap that has all the tip ground off so it will give a complete thread right to the bottom of the blind hole.
That's the captive nuts all finished.
Before I can do any more I need the castings back.
Stilldrillin
VERY nicely done Tony!
I love that tiny tailstock chuck.....
tmuir
Stilldrillin wrote:
I love that tiny tailstock chuck.....
I got that unused second hand for about $40 a while back.
I don't use it that often but for the price I love it.
Kritika
Looking Good Tony
MooseMan
Great idea having a tailstock chuck - I'll have to look into that!
Dr. Rog
MooseMan wrote:
Great idea having a tailstock chuck - I'll have to look into that!
Didn't I see one on ebay under "steam"?
tmuir
After a bit of a break its time to get back to the roller.
The other week we managed to get a sad Renown vertical to donate it's whistle to the roller.
The decal on this vertical is original and is from the store Levensons Radio which I've found references from the 1930s to the 1960s on the internet so I'm guessing Levensons also sold Renowns and rebadged them with their decals.
Now Steve's roller at some point was modified and the pipe work for the whistle was removed, the hole drilled bigger and fitted with a bush and then a brass bolt.
This is what it should look like.
I had a bit of a struggle to get the bush out and once removed I could see why. It was nearly an inch long and had been installed a long time ago and was covered in calcification.
Material gathered together to make new whistle pipework.
New bush made for the boiler and the pipe test fitted in the bush.
Once I make the top half of the pipework I will most likely need to shorten the pipework by a few mm.
Will hopefully finish this part tomorrow night and then I can give it a test fire.
Les
It is looking good so far.
tmuir
Just finished making the last parts to be able to put the whistle on the roller and soldered them on.
Tomorrow I'm going to attempt to make some fibre washers to give it the authentic look and then refit it back in the roller body and give it a steam to test my soldering.
I should hopefully have the castings before the weekend and then I can make the large pulley. Then I just need to make the friction drive and its all set to go.
TE1DRIVER
Blimey Tony, that's some craftsmanship
scalex
thats looking real good now Tony it will be great to see it finished
Ross
Cool!! Great work Tony
Ross
Sandman
Looking good Tony.
Les
That's great.
Kritika
Wow Tony
Sorry I have been in the Middle East for the last 10 days, so I have missed all this.
Wow this is looking so so good, I cant believe the transformation and all the skill you are putting in is awesome to watch.
tmuir
I had a parcel waiting for me when I got home today.
It was the original castings and some of the castings from Xchainsaw.
SO I refitted the wheels to the roller, put the boiler on, made some new gaskets. Filled it up and gave it a test run.
Here is the video. Unfortunately I filmed it with my digital camera not my video camera and the whistle is too high pitched for my digital camera to hear at all. I'll have to do another video later on with my digital camera. But here is the video showing its all running well, even if you can't hear the whistle.
and a still photo showing the engine running and the whistle blasting away and the large pulley casting just resting in place.
Sandman
Now, that's looking good Tony.
TE1DRIVER
Wow what a transformation
scalex
only one word i can say... AWESOME
Les
That's wonderful to see it running.
Stilldrillin
VERY nicely done Tony!
Burnmafingers
Great job and nice video
johnreid
Quite an accomplishment.
Kritika
tmuir
It doesn't look like much but its taken me a few days to do this.
Saturday and Sunday a number of trips out to the workshop was made to file, then etch prime, prime and then 2 coats of red to get me to here.
Then thirty minutes last night and an hour tonight to get this far.
Still a fair bit more to do before this pulley is finished.
I'm quite happy so far and I like the smooth machined surface against the rough cast parts, makes it look just like the original ones.
scalex
its looking great
Stilldrillin
That`s nice Tony!
Sandman
Nice work Tony.
Dr. Rog
It runs well and now its going to look great
Can this get any better?
Kritika
They look brilliant Tony
boxman
Sound job well done
tmuir
Not a huge lot of progress to show as I have been spending the time in the workshop preparing the wheels for my roller for machining but as they are sitting in undercoat drying tonight I spent and hour machinging the other side of the pulley and then drilling and tapping it for the grub screw. Still need to drill the 3 large holes in the pulley, machine the groove and then machine the stump I have for holding the pulley off.
Then it's on to making the parts for the friction drive.
Just fitted the pulley for a photo shoot.
Les
Looks good.
Kritika
Looking better every day
tmuir
I spent last weekend machining up the new wheels for my roller.
These ones were cast by Rob for my in the UK.
I finished fitting them yesterday and made new friction rollers from the rubber drums from an inkjet printer I had just stripped down.
I'm really pleased with how these wheels turned out.
ANd even better still the roller works.
Now I've got the measurements for the pulley shaft from my roller I can back to Steve's and hopefully have his up and running soon to.
IndianaRog
Tony, you have worked miracles with that one...I agree the wheels turned out to look better than factory!
Will you be painting it now, or leaving it in the natural brass?
Rog
tmuir
The brass was never painted, just lacquered.
Due to what these sell for now I won't be doing anything else to it.
I wanted to get it in running condition and as original looking as was possible.
It won't be getting the brasso treatment, not because I want to keep the tarnish, just because I'm too lazy to polish it.
Now this one is sorted I can finish Steve's and maybe even get another Scorpion horizontal up and running before Christmas.
Sandman
An excellent job Tony.
I particularly like the fact that it runs at a reasonable scale speed as well.
You've got to be well pleased with that one mate.
scalex
that looks great tony and what a great video that was awesome to see one running.
Lozza1
Wow
That looks great Tony
and as Sandman says the scale speed is very pleasing
You must be Wrapped to finally have it finished after all this time. Your persistance and hard work have paid off big time.
Three cheers for Tony
Hip-hip Hip-hip Hip-hip
And Thank you Tony for posting such an interesting and educational restoration thread
I'll continue to look forward to the next instalment
I really want to get into casting.
Wow
Hip-hip 