| Archive for The Unofficial Mamod and Other Steam Forum The Original Unofficial Toy Steam Forum Established 2006 The biggest, most popular steam forum around! Accept NO imitations! We have a growing community of regular posting members who chat about all aspects of toy and model steam. |
| MooseMan |
Revisiting Arrow/Môr ForwynWhen John Chapman was staying with me a he took a shine to an ME1 I had gathering dust on a shelf.....previously he'd let slip he had the business end of a Bowman M140 in a box somewhere.....a deal was swiftly agreed!As you'll see in the video, I'm in the progress of fitting the engine in my Arrow.....I've replaced the flywheel with meccano gearing, SeaHawk style, and a displacement lubricator and oil trap will be added. This engine packs a serious punch.....I now need to decide if I want this engine in this boat and the SEL unit in another, or vice versa. |
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| Mamodman123 |
Wow, I would definately try the M140 engine unit in a boat! You don't see many twin cylinder boats do you? 
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| MooseMan |
Well, it's all RocDoc's fault....I love his SeaHawk so much, I want my own - this will be the next best thing. |
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| IndianaRog |
That is awesome Moose...looks like it was custom made to fit the boat perfectly. Can the boiler keep up with two cylinders would be my only concern, but I believe you have a gas burner in that one, so probably not a problem.
I still can't get over how nicely that engine slots into a boat!! |
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| johnreid |
That is almost enough to make one want a boat. We need more pictures please
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| John Chapman |
Stunning stuff there Odilon, can't wait for the sea trials. 
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| Graham-Jilly |
I hope that thing is a self starter mat looks like you could loose a finger in there
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| MooseMan |
Not quite a self-starter Graham, they're single acting cylinders.....they take some stalling though. All I need to do to is center the gear properly on the shaft - I need to whittle a proper bush, at the moment it runs out of true a little. | ||||
| Graham-Jilly |
sounds good mate look forward to seeing it running in person.
hope you are ready for a steamup
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| MooseMan |
You bet I am! I'll have it sorted for when you're over, maybe we can go and chuck it in the pond.
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| 8_10 Brass Cleaner |
Sorry I cant see the video, some of us are still on clockwork dial up. But your plans sounds a fab one. I've had trouble with meccano gears running out of true. Is that the problem or is the shaft too small? |
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| RocDoc |
Aye, we've all got our faults ... 
Looking at my M140, the engine looks identical to that in the Seahawk. Pete |
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| bessytractor |
now that is good!
Do you expect a massive speed increase? |
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| Steve_S |
What a good idea! I'd never thought about it before but the 140 is an ideal boat engine... powerful and compact. I'll be following this with great interest! | ||||
| MooseMan |
I've no idea what the net result will be......the SEL (ME3) is quite a powerful beastie....on the dry it runs faster than the 140 engine, but it certainly doesn't have the same torque. I want to try out how hard I can push that burner/boiler....mind you, on the very first run with the SEL engine going flat out she nearly capsized on a sharp turn....
Of course the Bowman engine has the advantage that it is better balanced, and has a very low centre of gravity....it will be below the water line. I also would like to see if it would be possible to do a direct drive rather than a geared one. |
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| steamyjim |
If it was mine i would leave the M140 engine in the Arrow for the time being Moose
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| mogogear |
Just had some more fun re-reading this update to your Mermaid!! I also took a visit to Rocdoc's site( Are you a geologist?) I studied Geo at University of Texas..
Anyway - how is the 140 experiment coming Moose? You last post about trying to co direct drive seems desired , but formidable... |
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| MooseMan |
Hi Mo,
I've not made any further progress.....I'm at the moment doing a full restoration on a Bowman Snipe for someone else (pics in due course). After that it'll get my full attentian - I want it to be done by the time the weather turns here!
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| mogogear |
Prop QuestionMoose,What size prop and pitch did you put on the Arrow? I am not there yet but am trying to get familiar with stuffing boxes, props and rudder set up's. Dumas Products has a great rudder kit... but prop size and pitch , number of blades is a void with me. The Project #2 boat is considerabley bigger than Boat #1( and it had a prop already..) So what 'cha usin' if you will share? Also did the metal for your front spray shield come with the kit...? I think you didn't buy the Hobbies wood kit- but did your own.. I am thinking of making mine out of copper.... Thanks O |
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| MooseMan |
Hi Mo,
My prop is a 4cm 3 blade plastic affair - really basic, but it does the job fine - it fits onto any M4 tapped propshaft. I did buy the Hobbies material kit......when I built the boat I was recovering from a serious illness, and still learning to walk again, so I had to rely on mail order. It came with a bit of aluminium for the spray hood, but I completely buggered up the first attempt, so I bought a large piece of aluminium flashing from my friendly local roofing contractor - big enough for 50 spray hoods.
I think a copper spray hood would look fabulous - that's an idea I may have to steal in the future! I find copper easier to handle than aluminium as well. |
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| mogogear |
Wow- the health concern sounds like it was major- glad to hear you recovered.............Thanks for the information...I found a splendid rudder at Dumas Products( the boat kit people) for $3.50 US brass elliptical fin- that solders into a brass split rod....it looks to be just the older type I was looking for.
The copper maybe able to be "tooled" I had thought about fish scales as a pattern??? or somesuch..Also a oxidizer could be used for patina effects where needed to high light parts of the design... we will see. If the idea has merit have at it! Did you have a lube port for your prop shaft? for Silcone type grease ? |
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| MooseMan |
Mo, thge propshaft/stuffing box has a plastic sleeve, so it's self-lubricating to some extent - I get some WD40 down it before a run, but it has no dedicated lubrication port - I just pull the shaft.
If it's of interest - I currently have a Bowman Snipe prop in pieces at home - I was going to resolder it tonight, but I can easily take some pictures of it pre reassembly before it goes back on the boat. |
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| mogogear |
Check this little interesting boat out- probably a clockwork boat...
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/PRE-WW2-TOY...PageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem anyway................ |
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| bessytractor |
Moose, have you considered changing the prop? Changes in size and pitch can get the most out of the engine. | ||||
| RocDoc |
Hi Mo, Yes, I'm a rock hound for my sins. Job takes me round the world ... to various airport departure lounges and offices. I used to be a field geologist but no money in rocks anymore. Now I spend money on ... well ... you'll have to wait and see. Pete PS: Sorry Odilon, just gone off topic ... lets go back to the real interesting stuff |
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| MooseMan |
Oooooh....I wouldn't mind some education on that front please. |
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| bessytractor |
well basically the more blades on a prop, the more umph you get. Simple (well not quite but its basically like that). But that is not always the case. A lot of model boats props that are 3 blade and up are scale and so have a fairly shallow pitch. This is fine for scale boats as they aren't required to go fast . For speed boats the props are usually 2 blade and set at a fearsome pitch. Now the big problem is that you can overload a motor/engine with a prop thats too big. This causes overheating/burn out on motors and chokes a steam engine. You need to find the best prop for your motor and its pretty much trial and error. I would suggest you use a two blade racing prop (ebay it) thats the same size as your current three bladed one, simply to see if any difference is apparent. My new tug at the mo is having a two blade and a three blade swapped back and forth because the three bladed one lays down the power (essential for tugging!) whereas the two blade makes it go FAST!!!! |
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| MooseMan |
Ah! Now I was always thinking that three blades meant more speed, but thinking about it I guess pitch is proportional to displacement, whereas number of blades is proportional to torque - am I getting it right?
Two bladed racing prop it is - that tallies with what I see on my Bowman boats. I was amazed at the turn of speed my Snipe had at STiA, even in cold and windy conditions. Thanks - excellent tips! 
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| bessytractor |
no problem I only just learnt all this stuff through bitterly cold (pondside!) experience! |