| Archive for The Unofficial Mamod and Other Steam Forum The Original Unofficial Toy Steam Forum Established 2006 The biggest, most popular steam forum around! Accept NO imitations! We have a growing community of regular posting members who chat about all aspects of toy and model steam. |
| tmuir |
Solid Fuel explodes?Just stumbled across this story, its only 4 days old.Has anyone in the UK heard about this or know if there is any truth in it. But I've got to say what idiot lets a 5 and 8 year old play with a steam engine unsupervised? http://www.thisisthenortheast.co....steam_engine_erupts_in_flames.php |
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| johnreid |
I would bet that little fingers help the Safety Valve down, but that will probably never be known. | ||||
| Titan |
Reading that story, I am pretty certain with that level of injury it was a boiler explosion -Kid burned from head to toe and in a critical condition in intensive care. The flames everywhere were more likely to be from the fuel being blown to pieces in the explosion.
Even if the safety valve was faulty/tampered with, the piston should lift off the block and let steam escape before the boiler gets to a dangerous pressure (it was a TE1A). I do hope it is not down to poor manufacture of the boiler - could be implications there. This is one reason why toys are limited to 15 psi or so, above this pressure in the event of a boiler explosion, there is enough heat in the water to instantly boil the whole lot at atmospheric pressure, which greatly increases the power of the explosion, and since 100cc of water makes 100 litres of steam, will completely engulf anyone standing nearby in scalding hot steam. |
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| tmuir |
I'm guessing it was a solid fuel model but if so I don't see how it could of set a child on fire from head to toe.
Me thinks the teenager might of tried running the mobile with something else. |
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| Mamodman123 |
I assume he either stocked the burner with a million solid fuel tablets or the boiler failed...as they said they were from head to toe in flames I'm willing to bet he used too much fuel some of it got wet and exploded 
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| Titan |
Re: Solid Fuel explodes?
To be fair, it was being run by a teenager, and if they cannot run engines unsupervised then thats a lot of us in trouble !! |
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| Mamodman123 |
Re: Solid Fuel explodes?
the term pissing about spring to mind 
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| Graham-Jilly |
could cause the banning of live steam models
I hope not 
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| tmuir |
Re: Solid Fuel explodes?
Your right I miss read that part and didn't see a teenager was in charge, thats a bit different to leaving a 5 and 8 year old in charge of it. One would guess there will be remains of the engine and a picture of that would tell a lot about what really happened. |
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| Chris |
Highly suspicious.
Wonder what the teenager/children were really doing, and what was in the boiler and/or burner. |
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| toxx |
H'llo, folks! A shocking read that was - thanks for publishing it, Tony! I've known and operated Wilescos and Mamods for so many years - some in the most derelict condition. The boilers were always sound as the Pyramids. I agree with what you friends have posted above: 1) Either the safety valve was defunct or made so 2) The boiler was severly damaged, not safe for use but used anyway 3) The teenaged operator used way too much or improper fuel, thus leading to the explosion of a damaged boiler and/ or defunct safety.
Whatever it was (Tony, could you please post updates of the outcome of this desaster?), our hearts and prayers go out to the injured child and his family. Sad and shocked and not witty at all today Tom |
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| tmuir |
Hi Tom,
I don't think I will be able to find out more just stumbled across this by chance but our UK members may hear more about this in the future as it happened in the UK. |
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| Dampfzauberer |
Maybe i overead it...but did the text say solid fuel?
Maybe the child thought: put meth in the burner plus put meth in the funny big brass tank.... and ran the engine that way?
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| tmuir |
No it didn't actually say solid fuel.
Just the way it reads makes me think the model wasn't old enough to be a meths model that doesn't mean they didn't fill it with meths.
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| Chris |
The story appears on a few news sites but all have the same words so can't say anything else at the moment.
Problem with news stories is they are rarely followed up. |
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| MooseMan |
Brrrr...I once nearly did that, wasn't paying attention and put water in the burner and meths in the boiler, but caught myself doing it in time. |
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| James |
What's for tea tonight?
Flame grilled Moose
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| Cranko |
Hard to say what happened but i have seen an esbit tablet explode just after it was lit but this wouldn't give burns from head to toe. the guy it happened to now wears safety glasses when he uses it 
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| Mister Occlusion |
How's the lawyer situation over there? If this were in the US there'd already be a lawsuit..
Legal action certainly won't do the company any good, win or lose. We used to piss about with the little D6 Wilesco, but that was mainly limited to feeding it matches and little bits of balsa wood because dad would never get us more than 1 box of fuel at a time and we seemed to never have enough.. |
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| H2o vapour |
Thanks for putting this on the site!
We all need to heed the obvious precautions and respect the kit for what it is. Sorry for the lad to. My bet is that they have tried to add a flamable fuel from a bottle to a hot or burning burner. I use Meths to get the barbique going, it don't half go. Lets hope tha lad recovers and nothing more comes of it in relation to banning Steam toys or other over reacted safety measures H20 |
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| johnreid |
I bet that Law suits happen, they always do. Just like the Old Lady who spilled McDonald's Coffee on her lap, a fresh hot cup, and she won a huge lawsuit. IMHO that kind of stuff has gone too far, as long as there are proper warnings and the product is manufactured properly, people should be able to win lawsuits just because they are stupid.
Off of my Soap Box now. |
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| Mamodevon |
This is a terrible thing to happen to a family and the individuals injured. I think until the investigators have concluded what has happened , we should not speculate who or what was to blame.
We, as representitives of the model steam community will look bad if anyone from the family's community or the press saw some of the comments posted here, especially those that seem to blame the kids involved, let alone any humourous comments - entirely inappropriate! We should in the first instance be concerned and supportive for the family and victims. We should secondly seek to have a dialogue with the press about the safety record of model steam but also reinforce the message of operating them safely. If we take the initiative, we could avoid negative public reaction to this hobby. I would also propose, that in conjunction with Mamod and other manufactures, we create a school safety message about model steam that can be made available over the internet for teachers and parents. Just my thoughts. MD |
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| Graham-Jilly |
well said MD totaly agree | ||||
| tmuir |
Fair points MD,
I do hope we find out what really happened. I don't know if its our place to speak to the press about this incident, certainly not before Mamod has their say but writing a generic set of safety rules that should be followed for all steam toys is not a bad idea and it would be easy for us to make it a sticky on this forum and readily available to everyone. Anyone want to put together something like this? |
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| Graham-Jilly |
well Tony I would but you probly have noticed i aint to good at stringing more than a few words together
cheers G |
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| Cedge |
A bit of advice.
Mamod has just found themselves waking up to every manufacturer's nightmare. The press loves this kind of thing for the chance to present a story with sensationalism, regardless to the facts involved. Let Mamod and their legal representation do the talking to the press. Anything said by one of us is likely to be: A- misquoted B -Misconstrued C- taken totally out of context D- Detrimental to Mamod's cause E- Unwanted Speculation F- Clouding Public perception None of the above will benefit Mamod. They have an excellent safety record, stretching back many decades. They are not located here in the US, so suing them is a little more of a gamble, since UK law has the "loser pays" system. My prayers go out to the children who were hurt, and I hope they make a full recovery with only a hair raising tale for their own future children We all know something was terribly amiss for this to have happened, but speculation is quite likely to do considerable damage to Mamod's efforts to survive this. I have my own educated guesses as to how the accident could have happened, but I'm keeping them to myself, lest the press read them and use them to sacrifice Mamod on the alter of increased readership. As for the "training school"... be very careful. Taking on the responsibility for "certifying" safety training means you may also accept some legal liability if something like this happens to one of your "students". Just a word to the wise....(wink) Steve |
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| MooseMan |
Bit of a follow-up here:
http://www.gazettelive.co.uk/news...ns-victim-spencer-84229-19959157/ |
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| Lewis |
i think we have discused before a mamod will only go wrong if its been messed about with a normal mamod wouldent just burst into flames or explode
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| johnreid |
Thanks for the follow up post Moose.
Cedge is right, we can discuss it here, but never think that any of us are in the position that we can speak for the Manufacturers unless we are in the employ of said firms. Something was not right, we can speculate all we want, but must recognize that all that we can do is speculate. We have no more facts than any other man on the street. Let the Authorities look into it, and hopefully once all is found out we might learn from the tragic mistakes of others. On another "might have been the cause" note, I saw a Wilesco in a Yard Sale yesterday, there was a carriage bolt in place of the SV and the Boiler was distended, I bet that one had been seconds away from a similar tragedy at some point in time. I wanted some parts from it, but the seller thought it was an Antique from the 1800s and wanted thousands of dollars for it. Well at least they think it is too old to try to fire up. |
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| Mamodman123 |
Something doesn't seem right, things don't just explode
The age limit on mamods is "not reccomended for children under 12" It also states NEVER stand over the engine while in use and best used outside! |
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| Mamodevon |
I agree with much of the above and other's comments. I think I was trying to suggest that an 'indapendant' voice, one that is inpartial, as this forum covers many manufacturers, might give a bit of credence. You can imagine that if the only ones saying to parents that these toys are safe are the manufacturer, than some might be a bit sceptical. On the safety guidance issue, I would not go for writting it our selves, but if we supported it again as an indapendent group, then parents might trust it more. But in the light of day, I suppose this is not the purpose of this forum and we should keep out of it and just hope the kids affected make a good recovery. MD |
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| johnreid |
I do not think that it would be a bad idea if a basic how to get started thing was made up "as a suggestion for those who visit here for the first time" with the proper disclaimers etc.
It is so easy to buy a Steamer on Ebay, get it home and not know how to safely use it. |
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| Mamodman123 |
I thought we had one on here somewhere or it might have been an ebay guide not sure
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| Cedge |
MD
Please don't take my comments as being critical of anyone or even in the vane of censorship. Nothing could be further from the case. After more 25 years in business, I have been through a several similar product liability issues. I know what kind of grief self proclaimed experts and their comments can cause. The press loves them because they are never required to refute their opinions. The public too often takes their word as gospel and a barrister will wield their spew with glee, if it ever goes to court. I'm only sharing my thoughts so that none of us find ourselves in the position of doing unintentional damage to an honorable company or this unique hobby that we all love dearly. Officials always want to take some sort of preventative action and adding new regulations to an already heavily regulated product could easily contribute to the end of an era. No need to give ammunition to a bunch of well intentioned but woefully misguided bureaucrats and reporters. Steve |
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| toxx |
... good point, Steve!
Greetz, Tom |
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| Mamodevon |
Thankfully, we don't yet suffer from the same litgatious mindset or fears here in the UK as found in some countries. The Health and Safety Executive will decide whether there is any liability in a case like this and whether to pursue a crown prosecution on the grounds of neglect or failier to ensure the safety of others. However your point is important and we don't want to agrivate the situation. But, the public believe the other members of public more than a company. One thing is for sure though. If Mamod is left to fall on its own sword at the mercy of the press, the we will have our selves to thank for not showing that this hobby has a good safety record. MD |
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| 8_10 Brass Cleaner |
Gentlemen,
Long and short of it is, that this accident happened a good time ago now, it made the local press, but no more. That is a good thing. In all honesty it has now faded into obscurity. My opinion is that any law suit concocted by the parents and or ambulance chasers is unlikely to succeed on the basis that the toy was operated against the recommendations of the manufacturer. The articles clearly indicate that the parents were not supervising their children. I ask would any responsible parent let their children play with a toy that used a fire and hot liquids unsupervised?. I think Mamod have very little to worry about. |
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| Cranko |
About how long ago BC , i thought this was breaking news
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| johnreid |
Well, the article is dated, 11:35am Tuesday 16th October 2007.
I thought it was a current story. It doesnt matter, we all know that something odd must have happened, however none of us are even closely qualified to speak out on that case. So, instead of becoming vocal and possibly overstepping our bounds, we should all take appraisal of our own practices. Are we doing things that might be dangerous too? Like firing up some relic from Ebay that has an unknown past? Making modifications to Models without the proper engineering backgrounds? Seriously, all we can do is practice common sense and set a good example. Leave the publicity to the Manufacturers and the Barristers. |
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| H2o vapour |
Some sensible Comments gentlemen,
I feel reading through that we have a feeling within the community that we need to do something. What has been said earlier and quite rightly, it is more important that we remain silent at this time so not to fuel any issues. Press are nothing but gutter mungers which has been said. Could we not wait a while and then at some time in the future offer Mamod a hand of support / friendship should it be required. H20 |
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| johnreid |
not to go off topic, but some of the Members Web Sites are superior to Mamods, little tiny pictures and not much description. I think they could do a lot better.
I go back to the idea of one of the more experienced and knowledgeable members or several of you, put together a safe steaming article and make it sticky to the top. |
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| JensenSteamMan |
Quite tragic, no matter what the cause of it! I hope the children make a full recovery!
I remember the first time I steamed up my #76 Jensen after my Father and I had assembled it. Both of my parents were standing right there and watched as we read through the directions and fired it up! I still always run all of my models on the kitchen stove with the vent running to pull out the fumes from the dry fuel, which I always use. I also never run my models when I am the only one home. I hope we can find a follow up/ report of what the investigators found out. We will probably never see a picture of the engine in question. -Casey |
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| TE1A_man |
As someone said earlier, it seems like the cylinder would come off before the boiler blew. Thats the scariest thing that happened to my TE1A, but i forgot to check how tight the bolt that holds it to the portface was.  , the cylinder came flying off, strangly, the steam came out in bursts with high's and low's, instead of a steady hiss.
Even if something blew, like the fuel, i doubt it would be enough to do more than chip the paint, my te's boiler is made like a tank. Good ol' mamod british engineering! |
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| johnreid |
As a possible thing, if one was to put Gasoline ( Petrol ) in a Meths burner, that is exactly what would happen. | ||||
| TE1A_man |
Right, if your going to tweak your steam engine in such a way (almost like you don't care about it), then do it with saftey equipment, in this case a suit of armour, and with adult supervision. | ||||
| xlchainsaw |
hmm ive just read all the posts.i was going to post a debate about this subject(solid fuel) i have a collection of old and new tablets and have run experiments. remembering the 1970s when a similar accident occurred with the meth burner,leading to the founder of mamods losing the business,im reluctant to debate in public my findings now! in the interests of safety please dont use old(20-30yr old tablets) | ||||
| tmuir |
Yes I read about that incident, it was also the cause of the change to solid fuel even though there was no evidence of the fire being caused by faulty parts.
Any comments we make are really just speculation although I do think this article is a good reminder that we are playing with fire (literally) and we should all be careful with what we do. |
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| Minor1PJG |
Until all the facts are known (if that's possible) we're just not able to comment further.
Can Mamod be held resposible if someone wants to do this?  :
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=uYRI3Bmkhao I don't think so. We are all born with just a little bit of common sense and that really is all that is needed to run these engines. Have I scalded and burnt myself whist running my engines - yes. Whose fault was that? Mine, through inattention or carelessness and not through the poor design of the model. Let's hope this doesn't have a wider effect on our hobby 
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| tmuir |
Thats just madness, that guy is lucky he still has a hand pointing that butane burner into the flames like that. I'll file that one under the heading 'Never do this'. |
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| johnreid |
YIKES! me thinks that is proof that some people just dont think.
It has always been my belief to err on the side of caution, but I see things like that and have to admit that the things are engineered to withstand more than they should be subjected to. If that one had blown up, the fellow overfiring it was asking for a disaster to happen. |
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| toxx |
... interesting: I wanted to post a comment on the video; wasn't possible. Wanted to ask the guy whether he was trying to kill himself and everyone else in the building. 
Rendered speechless, I am. Boyoboyoboy! Greetz, Tom Don't hate anything, only ignorance and stupidity! |
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| Andy |
that madness gess he wasn't thinking of the consequences | ||||
| Mister Occlusion |
Now I'm annoyed that I have to wait until I get home to see this..
Youtube is fertile ground for the Darwin Awards committee though... Or could be. |
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| IndianaRog |
Sometimes I am amazed at just how shallow the gene pool can be!
Tragedy is that idiots like that will in turn sue the manufacturer over injuries for not specifically telling them in bold letters not to feed an inferno with a propane/butane nozzle. I would be embarrased to produce such an insane YouTube video...oi what a dolt. |
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| Chris |
A future candidate for the Darwin Awards. | ||||
| bessytractor |
oh I've seen that blokes films before, I just couldnt believe someone would treat an expensive bit of kit like an engine that badly. But then again most of his films seem to involve wrecking stuff or idiocy. | ||||
| johnreid |
like this one
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=eIFslhY6oEA What a waste of a good engine. This is why Ebay is such a gamble. |
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| TRAPPERKEEPER |
Maybe he just isn't very smart... I asked him what he was using for fuel in one of his vids and he said wood and stuff, perhaps he has never heard of meths or esbit? He doesn't sound quite right in that tractor fire vid either...
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| Mister Occlusion |
LOL! "It's on FIRE! It's on FIRE!" 
If he was American you could forgive him for probably wanting to get on a stupidest home video show. surprised he hasn't cracked out some 2-stroke mixed gas or something... Oh...Naptha would be good I bet!
and perhaps a bit of cordite to give it some sizzle... 
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| Mamodevon |
Can't help notice that he is not using a butane gas nozzle, it is in fact the nozzle to a car tyre foot pump. That rushing sound is air as he pumps it and he is using it as a bellows to fan the flames - dam stupit though as that will make the fire in the burner chamber white hot which could be enough to melt the solder on the boiler. |
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| CCairns |
He who plays with fire will ____!!
Incredible, but I suppose it is supposed to be a free world. However I'm sure he would be the first to sue Mamod, Wilesco, etc. if his fires were to end up with his boilers exploding and scalding him. Well spotted Mamodevon, I needed to look at that video twice to confirm it was not a butane gas torch he was using. Chris Cairns. |