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| erikl |
SP5 restorationAfter the MM2 was cleaned, I decided to start on the SP5 I got last week. This is what I start with:
well, since it's a relative new engine, they've used rivets to get everything in place instead of the old fashioned screws. First thing I did is drill them all out, now I have this pile of stuff: 
this will need replacing: 
is this suposed to be in the bottom of the chimney? 
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| Nick |
That sight glass is a complete loss. Have you found out anything about replacing the sides? | ||||||
| Mamodman123 |
Yep thats the chimney bottom
Keep the sponge its meant to be there 
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| Les Marsh |
It looks worse now than it did when it was in one piece. 
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| erikl |
but it will be better one day 
Didn't look for replacements yet, will do that somewhere this week. |
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| Les Marsh |
At least now the only way is up. 
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| Nick |
What's the sponge for? | ||||||
| tmuir |
Catch the water condensation |
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| Nick |
How does it dry out? | ||||||
| tmuir |
Slowly. 
I never said it was a good idea.
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| Nick |
Is the sponge completely enclosed when fully assembled, as in you can't dry it out? | ||||||
| tmuir |
The chimney can be removed and the sponge can them be accessed but I bet most of the times it is just left to dry itself out. | ||||||
| Nick |
That sounds like a very poor design. 
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| Wallace |
I am suprised mamod never made a type of drip tray instead of that sponge.
The sponge sits on the base in the bottom of the chimney base (box bit). You take the chimney off to get to it. Silly thing is that the base where the sponge sits is perfectly set as it's slightly dished to catch the water. All that is needed is a pipe soldered to the base in the bottom of the dish, leading under the base then to the side to a tray Just my thoughts
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| Les Marsh |
It is if you never knew it was in there. Is a piece of sponge in all the SP range? I would have thought as it holds the water it would help the chimney base to rust. | ||||||
| Wallace |
That's about all it does Les That's if it doesn't burn first, as mine was half scorched
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| Nick |
The sponge actually looks to be the cleanest part of this engine.
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| Les Marsh |
Or just a hole drilled with some kitchen towel underneath when you run it (for those who cannot solder). |
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| CCairns |
Both the SP4 & SP5 have a dimple in the baseplate at the bottom of the chimney, and a small drain comes out from the side of the chimney base.
If you look closely at Erik's photos you will see this drain just below the left edge of his boiler. However when running mine there is very little if any of this condensate which actually drains out, so I have to remove the chimneys, wash the sponges and clean up inside. The SP6, SP1 & SP2 have a non-functioning chimney, but they are still removeable after a fashion. I'd like to get my exhaust piped on the SP6 to the chimney, as it currently just makes an oily mess of the baseplate under the cylinder assembly. |
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| erikl |
strange thing is, that the piece of baseplate under the chimney is one of the pieces with the least rust on it stange, but true. I'll take a picture of it later
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| Nick |
Maybe the sponge does work then. Someone did say that very little water makes it to the sponge, so it may have just kept that part dry.
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| erikl |
Here you have it:
not realy a fair picture, because I already started sanding. There are realy tons of rust comming off from it, but underneath it there's still good metal. There are a few pits in it however, from earlier restoration I know that those will be visible after repaint. Anyone ever tried "plamuur" on a baseplate? (I don't know the proper english word for it, but it's this stuff: http://www.alabastine.nl/_images/_visual_Doe-het-zelf_plamuur.jpg ) |
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| Nick |
No rust at all under the sponge.
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| erikl |
yeah, almost no rust there. I think I'll go and cover all my engines in wet sponges to preserve them
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| Nick |
That would work excellent if the sponge was wet with oil.
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| Minor1PJG |
That's amazing Erikl
The incredible preserving sponge
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| erikl |
the baseplate(s) and firebox front already got some les paint/rust on them:
My little friend the dremel helped a lot too I'm now out of sanding paper, but I hope to have these parts ready for paint in a few days.
I got to do some more drilling on the front of the boiler, these didn't come out yet: 
But I wouldn't like to use a too big Drill bit and demolish it with that. I've just mailed a few companies to ask for the spares. |
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| Les Marsh |
Looking better already, won't be long now. 
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| Nick |
Are the rivets just spinning? Looking great! | ||||||
| erikl |
no, but the drill bit I used to geth the water level glass off was a bit too big, so I stopped as soon as I got it off, I was afraid to damage the boiler. |
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| CCairns |
I have a suggestion as an alternative to using rivets to fit the sight glass mounting again.
This involves soldering in 2 x 6BA screws into the rivet holes to allow you to remove the sight glass mount easier when you need to replace the plastic glass again. Sorry no photos but here is what I've done with the loco boilers which were riveted. Take a cheesehead 6BA brass screw, lightly tin the threads near the top of the screw, put a piece of thread through the rivet hole and pull it back through the sight glass hole. Tie this to the end threads of the screw (opposite end to the head where you have tinned). Place screw into sight glass hole and use thread to pull it up into the rivet hole. Holding the threaded end of the screw solder around the rivet hole to hold this screw in place. Repeat on other side. Fit sight glass washer, plastic and mount using 6BA nuts. It looks OK on the loco because these nuts are hidden in the cab, but of course would be more prominent on the end of the SP5 boiler. |
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| erikl |
I just got a mail back from forrest classics, they can provide a new whistle, water level glass and chrome firebox sides, although those sides are from the new SP5 (they say they will fit) | ||||||
| Minor1PJG |
That's good news
The new SP5 firebox is a slightly different style but should be the same size. http://www.forest-classics.co.uk/mamod_sp5.htm |
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| H2o vapour |
You need a medal!!
Seriously, I have been going through stuff to take to STIA, I have a pritsine , never run & boxed sp5. I looked at it today and noted that there were rust spots on it - it's been in it's box in a sealed plastic container in the loft, which is dry and warm. (BOWMAN 135 IS IN GARAGE 2 YEARS - NO RUST - 70 years old) I think the metal used is the sponge Good Luck H20 |
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| Nick |
How much are chrome sides? | ||||||
| CCairns |
H2o vapour Did you leave it stored with some solid fuel tablets, as that stuff is very corrosive once it gets some moisture in it and will attack locomotives in their boxes which have the fuel stored just underneath the locos. | ||||||
| erikl |
Thanks, sound interessting, but since I already have the tools to use pop rivets, I think I will try that first.
these are some prices I gathered: chrome firebox sides....... £9.50 chimney........................£7.50 whistle..........................£6.50 sight glass + frame for it..£3.50 reverse lever..................£3.50 (don't yet know if that's the right one) |
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| Nick |
I'm surprised the chrome sides are that cheap. It seems quite reasonable. | ||||||
| tmuir |
I don't think they are real chrome anymore, just stamped polished steel as chrome doesn't rust it blisters and falls off.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong though. |
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| Wallace |
I'm not sure if they are chrome or not. If they are the reflection of chrome, then they are chrome, as polishing to get that finish costs more than chrome
Usually if chrome is poor quality (or the prep is poor) the chrome will fake and blister. Good chroming will eventually show rust. |
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| Atticman |
My MGB bumpers, and all the rest of the chrome on it rusted like that, I would think the chrome on SPs is not of the best quality, sadly most manufacturers just bother enough to sell, and dont care what happens later. Can understand it though, really the consumer is partly to blame, as they will tend to get the cheapest possible often without realising that you get what you pay for .
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| johnreid |
I believe that the quality of the metal underneath the chrome has a lot to do with it also. | ||||||
| Mamodman123 |
I think its the heat that strips off the chrome then that exposes bare metal which rusts, and once it starts it will travel! |
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| steamgranny |
Ooooh...........Erik, that SP5 is a real mess But I think you like them that way Flattened fireboxes, rusty hulks, Erik will sort it I'm sure you will & looking forward to end result - Happy restoration
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| Wallace |
Yeah that's where I learnt about the quality of chrome, on cars when restoring them. |
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| H2o vapour |
Hi Chris,
Thanks for points on the fuel |
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| H2o vapour |
Hi Chris,
Thanks for points on the fuel i will take it out, that as you say could be the trouble!! Still makes me think about the metal though H20 |
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| erikl |
I gave the boiler a salt & vinegar bath for a few hours today, already looks a bit better after some brasso:
Still a lot of polishing to do, but I can only do it for a short period everytime (otherwise my wrists get painfull) I will first give it a bit of a clean, before I start with soldering. I'll probably have to do some more cleaning afterwards. |
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| Nick |
Looks a lot better than what you started with. | ||||||
| Les Marsh |
That's a definite improvement. Well done. | ||||||
| johnreid |
When the brass gets shiny it gets hard to wait till the job is done, it is going to turn out great, I can tell. | ||||||
| Nick |
Just think of that brass with the new chrome sides.
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| Les Marsh |
Need new sunglasses.
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| erikl |
It will still take me a couple of weeks to complete I think. |
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| Mamodman123 |
That boiler looks a million times better!
Its coming back from the dead
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| Nick |
You're much better than me at restoring things, I start and put off finishing it forever, but I'll eventually get my projects done. | ||||||
| Les Marsh |
Now you have Mamod mobiles you won't get anything done.
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| Nick |
I have to wait for the weather to get nicer before I can run them outdoors though. 
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| Les Marsh |
And all that snow to go.
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| Nick |
The driveway is clean, all the snow is in the yard, it's just too cold. | ||||||
| erikl |
well, I took 8 months for my flatbase SE1 
I hope to acomplish this one a bit faster The top side of the baseplate is now stripped of paint, still got to do the botom side.
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| Nick |
By the looks of it, this one will be done sooner. | ||||||
| erikl |
I try to do a little bit everyday
yesterday I worked on these two: 
One of the two black pieces was a little bit loose (I think the engine was dropped once), so I decided to drill out those rivets too (makes painting and soldering easier too) they now look like this: 
I'm also still working on the baseplate, but some bits of paint are realy hard to get off. Think I'll have to buy some paint remover again. I'm also still working on the spare parts, I think I can only get the new kind of smoothe chrome sides, nobody seems to be able to supply the original ones. |
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| Les Marsh |
It's coming along.
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| Wallace |
Looking good Erik. 
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| Sandman |
Well on the way Erik. | ||||||
| tmuir |
The way I got off the stubborn paint on my SE3 base was to buy a brass wire wheel that you fit into the drill. It makes short work of the paint and rust, just use it outside as it makes a hell of a mess and wear leather gloves as you don't want to run the wire brush over your hand.
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| Les Marsh |
When I needed some bases stripping, a friend of mine took them to work with him and had them bead blasted and then etched primed ready for re-painting. | ||||||
| tmuir |
I want to get a sand blaster for my workshop as they aren't that expensive and they can do in 5 minutes what seems to take me weeks.
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| Les Marsh |
Just don't get carried away and blast a hole in what your cleaning.
I think bead blasting is more gentle than sand blasting. |
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| erikl |
I have a real small one, for the dremel, but I only use it on difficult spots. It's quite easy to damage the metal too much. Paint remover is ideal, doesn't hurt the metal, and works realt easy, but it's unfortunately very dangerous stuff to work with (bad for you skin to touch it, and can couse canser if you breate it too much) |
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| Nick |
It's looking better.
Probably better of using chemicals and doing your sanding outdoors. |
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| erikl |
had some time to get cracking on this one today. I started with the boiler, the end cap had to come off because the whistle thread was broken.
I made a setup for it: 
and started heating. This is only my secod ever soldering job. The first one was this SE1: http://www.steam-toys.com/index.php?page=engine&engine=22 That was a very good learning practice, I now knew that the end cap wouldn't just come of when heated, not to use pliers to get it off and not to get it red hot. So I started heating it, and gently tapping the sides with a small piece of wood. When one side was starting to get losse, I turned the boiler, and repeated the same proces. Soon enought the end cap was off: 
no deformation of the end cap this time! Only bad thing is that my clamps made 2 small dents in the boiler itself they will havever be below the crome side of the firebox, so not a big problem. I didn't thighten the clamps very much I thought, could it be that these newer models just have thinner boilers? (and does anyone here have a idea how to prevent it? )
I now have to get that whistle out, but it requires quite some force to get it out of there, I think I will have to use some good pliers to get it loose. While waiting for that, I continued work on the parts that need paint. I bought a new bursh that was a great help with removing those last pieces of paint: 
I used it on a low speed electric drill, instead of a nowmal drill, because you could easily get too much off with this tool. after that I started with the primer: 
I'll have to do a second layer, because you can still see the coroded pits through it (paint didn't spread very well either because it was too cold) |
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| Mamodman123 |
Can't think why the boiler dented, I used practically the same metod on Lewis' SP3 and it didn't dent. I guess it must have been just a tiny bit too tight?
For a badly rusted base I would have bought some crack filling primer, its yellow in colour and fills it out more, for badly rusted/pitted metal would have covered it up better! Coming along nicely though
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| Nick |
It's a new engine!
Great Job!  I've been waiting to see the inside of that boiler.
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| erikl |
does the sp3 have the same kind of boiler? this one only has one end cap, while all the other engines I have have 2 end caps. this one seems to have been made out of one pice of brass or something (not from a tube)
I thought about using some kind of filler, but had no expierince with it, so didn't try it. did you ever use it on a engine? I don't think it will be a problem on this engine, the worst piece of the surface will be covered by the firebox. |
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| Mamodman123 |
I'd say it has the same type of boiler, not as long so I guess that could weaken it by being generally longer. Ive used it on an SE3 and it worked pretty well! Just takes less coats thats all! Coming along nicely! Can't wait to see this one finished now! Did you ever source a reverse handle? |
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| erikl |
Still a long way to go befor I have tis one finished I hope to do some more painting tomorrow.
I don't have a reverse handle yet  none of the usual supliers seem to be able to supply one. Might have to make one myself.
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| Mamodman123 |
They are pretty simple, just bent wire
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| Lewis |
the reversing lever is basically a bit of bent wire with a solid fuel burner handle | ||||||
| erikl |
do any of you have a image of it? | ||||||
| Mamodman123 |
Hopefully Lewis has as mine is deep deep in the wardrobe of doom
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| Kevin Klein |
If the spray paint is cold, set it in warm water or run it under hot and shake now and then to feel that the can is wamed up. This will increase preasure and give a finer spray. | ||||||
| Minor1PJG |
I did some spraying last week and left my can of paint on the central heating boiler for half an hour. It was lovely and warm then
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| erikl |
I now just leave the paint inside the house instead of the shed, so they're warm enough to use. I'm still quite busy with painting, it takes some time to dry, since it's not very warm in the shed.
I received some spare parts today from chas. I found that he was very dificult to communicate with, it took ages before I got the parts, and now he still send some wrong things, this is what I got: 
I told him I only wanted the reverse lever if it was oing to fit the old type of SP5 (I even send him a picture) , well, this one isn't going to fit ofcourse... The firebox sides aren't going to fit either, they're half a centimeter longer, and the old ones don't have the extra piece of metal on the bottom. Besides that, the ones he send me where quite crappy, lots of scratches: 
I think I'm going to send a complaint, and send them back. I think I'm going to try to use the rusty old ones after all... |
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| Les Marsh |
That's not good. | ||||||
| Minor1PJG |
The firebox sides from Chas are not in an acceptable condition and the forward/ reverse lever is quite wrong for a SP5
Chas should know better - a complaint is in order 
I have always felt you would be as well to paint your chrome firebox sides, until you find some originals in better condition. Good luck. |
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| Wallace |
Erik, very sorry to read of your troubles with Chas.
Even if they were the right size firebox sides, they are in terrible condition Nearly 2 years ago when I first got into steam, I ran into similar problems with Chas. Wrong safety valves sent and ridiculous postage prices. I tried him one more time, and still problems
I have not dealt with ever since. |
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| Nick |
I hope you get everything sorted out, I usually enjoy reading this thread, but your parts were a dissapointment. Those scratches would probably show through the paint.
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| Les Marsh |
I would send them straight back.
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| erikl |
I got a mail from him that I can send back those wrong parts.
I'm still busy with painting, got the silver, red and blue parts done now, but they still neat a coat of clear laquer. I'll probably do it in the weekend, because it's too cold and wet outside now (and that stuff already needs about 12 hours to dry) I'll post pictures when I'm done with that. I had to do the baseplate twice by the way, dropped it just when I was done (only 10cm, but the paint was still quite soft) |
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| erikl |
finaly some progress to report, painting of the parts that don't need heat resistant paint is done:
For some reason the clear laquer on the red base didn't come off a shiney as i'm used to, it looks a bit matt. 
It's not a big problem, because the original paint isn't all that shiney either. I'll nog start cracking on the black pieces from the firebox |
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| Les Marsh |
Wow, you wouldn't recognise them as the rusty parts you started with.
 Well done.
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| johnreid |
It will look better than new before you are done, good job! | ||||||
| Sandman |
Try a couple of coats of clear lacquer on the base to bring up a deep shine.
It gives a harder finish as well.
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| erikl |
I thin I found the problem
Guess I should read a bit better 
Well, it doesn't look bad now, so I'll just keep it this way. |
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| johnreid |
A good coat of Paste Wax might dress that up nicely. I dont think they have a mirror finish when new anyhow. | ||||||
| Lewis |
looks good mate so far
what blue did you use for the engine frames ? |
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| steamyjim |
Brilliant! | ||||||
| erikl |
it's called "genziane blue", I think it's the right colour for it. The silver might be a bit too dark, but good enough for me
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