Titans Table

Titan · Titans Table

I have taken the day off and am pretty frantically doing things for this!

Not quite there yet, my secret project looks like being on target for steamable by the end of the weekend - hopefully before!

I will spend lunchtime uploading photos of progress so far.

I have always harboured a desire to build one of these, but it was this thread that really made me decide to get off my behind and do it!

So what is it? Well go and look!!!

http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org....html&highlight=mamod+fairlie

Enjoy the weekend!

toxx

... a 'push me - pull you'- loco! I remember that thread, back in January

tmuir

Now this will be a forum first. I'm looking forward to the video.

andysleigh

You used my idea!

Thats a first, no one useually uses my ideas.!

I cant wait to see it

Titan

Thats Right! A Mamod Double Fairlie! I have no idea if any other exists - a google ony really came up with that earlier thread on this forum. I know Mike Chaney started to build one once, but that was many years ago and I have no idea if he finished it. Well this one WILL be finished and I'll make damn sure it runs well too!

Anyway, here is what I started with at the begining of September:

A rather nice SLK, the remains of an SL1, some left over wheels and cylinders, and a whole load of parts aquired from Forest Classics at the Great Dorset Steam Fair, and also some thick walled drawn brass tube for a boiler!

andysleigh

looks good Ian.

Cant wait to see the finished loco.

I may have to make one as well some time.

Titan

Me too!

This was the next stage, SLK partly dismantled, the new boiler cut to length and a trial fit of the bodywork. A new cab floor from steel has been constructed, which bolts over the existing floor, which has been shortened slightly. This and the roof are the means by which both halves are joined. The new boiler gives considerable ridgidity to the loco, meaning that the body is effectively a monocoque that does not require a seperate chassis or frame.

Titan

A comparison of the new boiler and the original from the SLK:

Just a wee bit longer!

Titan

Another comparison, this time the wall thickness. I expect that I could run this boiler at any pressure I choose!! However it is intended to run it at 40 psi so a considerable factor of safety!!!

Titan

Now as the drawgear is attached to the bogie on a Fairlie, some surgery was required to the smokeboxes. Firstly, the buffer beams were cut off - if you wanted to keep the mamod couplings and buffers it would be possible to mount these on the bogie. However I am going for chopper couplings so they are surplus to requirements. The edges of the remaining footplate were radiused in a similar manner to the full size Fairlie Locos.

Titan

Now we're starting to get serious! This is the beginings of the bogie frames - four pieces of steel have been cut to shape - nothing complex, basically four rectangles!

They are not as deep as normal mamod frames - The mamod frames just go up in to the combustion chamber, and as clearance is required on the corners they needed to be thinner here to give clearance. Also, I have arranged that the cylinders are fitted horizontally, partly to copy the full size loco but also for clearance reasons too. This does mean there are no awkward angles to work out and the design is fairly straightforward. In the photo I am just about to drill the mounting holes for the cylinders. Being aware that accuracy is important here, I am using an old port face as a jig. I am also drilling all four frames at once, to ensure that each one is as near identical as possible.

Well thats all for now - still a million things to do - I need to finish silver soldering the boiler, test it and then I have all the pipework and fittings to complete. I won't get it all done today, but it is still possible that it might be steamable before the weekend is out - watch this space!

Compound

Wow!!

made-in-england

Where they two good locos you have used to make one really good or two duff and still have the other SL1k?

Looks immense tho!

Roly Williams

This is bringing back memories of my three cylinder SE3

I assume you'll be using flexible plastic piping to the two bogies? The new boiler is much more than double the size of the original. What sort of burner will you be using? Will it extend under the whole length?

Mamodman123

Titan

It is made from one particularly good SLK - I was a little reluctant about that, but on the other hand it was bought cheap specifically for this project, and the very sorry remains of an SL1 - it had been put on an electric chassis so had no mechanical parts, and the boiler was shot too. The remander of the spare parts were ex-Titan - but before you panic Titan is still in one piece! The cylinders were Titans originals, which were taken off to fit upgraded cylinders. They have since been upgraded with the O ring kit themselves. The spare wheels were also ex-Titan, and are the original Mamod ones but remounted on new axles that are an interferance fit so no wobbly wheel problems.

So that does mean that the SLK is no more, but I do have a good boiler, burner and other parts from it that will shortly be up for sale to recoup some of the outlay!

Anyway, the next installment:

Here we are preparing to drill the holes for the front axle. This time we are using the frames from the SLK as a jig to make sure the positioning is good. The frames are all securely bolted through the cylinder mounting holes so that nothing can move out of place.

You may notice that the fairle bogie frames are at an angle and do not sit directly under the SLK frames. This is due to the Fairlies cylinders being horizontal compared to the Mamods which are angled up at the front.

This of course means that as it is, the position for the rear axle is incorrect. What is done to solve this is that once the front axle is drilled, the cylinder bolts are undone and the frames rotated about the front axle to align the rear. The whole lot is clamped up again and now the hole for the rear axle can be drilled.

mogogear

A show worthy project!! Should be a show stopper!!

Titan

I hope so!

After the frames were drilled, a trial assembly of the bogies took place. At this stage no holes were drilled for frame spacers etc, it was just the reverser block at the front and a frame spacer pushed between the frames at the rear just to keep them apart. They were then placed on the track so that the body could be lowered on to them and clearances investigated. Here if you look closely the body is resting on the bogies via a couple of drills! By varying the size of the drills I could see how the body would sit, and the clearance required would be the size of the drill used. The loco now sports a proper cab roof too - same thickness of steel as the original, just a bit longer, and drilled to use the original mounting holes.

It is starting to look like a completed loco, but the reality is there is a very long way to go - boiler is still just a tube, burner to make etc. etc. You may also notice that the forward/reverse lever now sits just in front of the footplate. Of course it was not possible to have it through the original slot - the lever would get knocked and the valve shut every time it went around a corner! However, due to the cylinders now being horizontal, the valve block is now vertical instead of leaning back. This has pushed the lever forward sufficiently to enable me to get clearance whilst still maintaining the same relative position of the axles compared to the original loco - Precicely one of the objects that this mock up was intended to discover!

Titan

Now one of the issues that had been concerning me was what to do burner wise. I had already decided that it was going to be a double ended six wick meths burner - three wicks either side - but how was I going to fit it such that the bogies had enough freedom of movement to go round Mamod track? One possibilty was to have the wicks mounted on the bogie so and connected to the tank with silicone tubing so that they would swing together round the bends. This would mean that the flames would be wafting up the side of the boiler rather than directly underneath on curves, which probably was not going to assist steam production.

So I set the bogies on a curve at the correct spacing to see what I could do:

And luckily it turns out that I do have just enough space for the burner to be rigidly mounted on the body and not hit the bogies on a curve. A standard meths burner is alongside for comparison and to get an idea of wick position. A little bit tight but do-able - Phew!

Titan

So now that I have a pretty good idea how things are going to fit, I can carry on and make the rest of the components for the bogies and drill the remaining holes in the frames.

Here is the bogie pivot mount being turned. It has already been machined to the correct width, and the pivot height itself is being machined to the width of the drills used in the mock up - less a millimeter or so to account for the mounting plate that will be attached to the body:

Once this is done the ends will be drilled and tapped for the standard 6BA screws.

Titan

And finally a picture of an almost completed bogie:

Note how the pivot is not mid-way between the axles. This is deliberate, the reason being that the cylinders make the bogie severely unbalanced - the standard loco is a bit light on the rear axle due to this, but as not only does the bogie not have the benifit of the steel cab roof and rear bufferbeam casting to add weight to the rear, it actually has nothing at all!

This is indeed a problem that the full size locos have, and they solve it by having ballast weights added to the rear of the bogie. This unfortunately is not an option for me as I need the space! So by biasing the pivot towards the rear, that axle will take a greater proportion of the body weight helping to redress the balance.

I also had to be a little careful in fitting the rear frame spacer. it sits just behind the rear axle at axle height. In order to be able to assemble it, the fixing screws have to be countersunk to clear the wheels, and also positioned to line up with the holes in the wheels so as to be able to get a screwdriver on them to tighten them up!!

Titan

This is the mounting used on the body:

Simple, but effective!

Again, due to the boiler strengthening the bodywork, no extra framework is required and the pivot can be bolted straight on to the combustion chamber. Just as well really, I' don't think there is space for anything else!

Titan

And now the bogies assembled on to the loco - it does just fit on to one section of Mamod curved track!

Here you can see the amount of swing at the front (or is that back?

) end:

Titan

Right, now its burner time!

Due to not having to worry about making it flexible, construction was fairly straightforward. The tank is just brass sheet folded up and soldered, and the wick tubes are basically copies of the usual three wick burner. Advantage was taken of the space under the cab to make a big tank to hopefully get a long run.

A standard burner is shown for comparrison.

Titan

And once finished and tested for leaks, it was time to set it on fire!

No shortage of heat here!

This is using some of Mamodfans Wonder Wick.

For a full tank the burn time was a little less than hoped for, about 15 minutes. By gum this thing is going to drink some meths! Still I probably have the wicks set higher than I need so I should be able to improve on this.

Titan

Now we have a means for heating the water, we now need something to contain the water!

Here you can see the holes drilled for the bushes:

From left to right they will be 1. spare 2. safety valve 3. gauge glass 4. regulator 5. whistle 6. Water top up valve.

You can also see with the boiler removed exactly how the burner fits with the loco on a curve.

Titan

Right, so now its time for my first attempt at boiler construction, and a silver soldered one at that!

The first bush I did was the one on the bottom for the gauge glass:

Maybe not the neatest of jobs but it seems to have adequate penetration so should be OK.

I was hoping that I could do all the other bushes on the boiler in one hit to save time. However the difficulty in simultaneously ensuring that all the bushes id not drop in to the boiler was a bit much - particularly the ones in the middle its a long boiler!

So they were done one at a time, with a piece of tubing inside the boiler that the bush rested on whilst I soldered it on top.

And with all the bushes successfully soldered in:

You may notice that the 'spare' bush is now plugged. It was really only there for symetry, and perhaps a useful point to attach an airline to for testing. However it was discovered that I had made an error in drilling the hole, and that it was a fair bit out of alignment. So rather than have something lop sided I decided to solder it up completely, and it will get filed down flush so when painted it will be invisible. In fact it was quite a challenge getting them all square and I am sure that one or two are a bit out, but hopefully not too noticably!

Les

This is a great piece, and you will probably only notice if they are out of line when you have the fittings in place.

Titan

So now we have the bushes in, we have to sort the end plates.

Now in a loco boiler these are recessed in so as to enable the mounting screws to be screwed in to the ends. This makes tings a little more difficult. Instead of just soldering a flat plate on the end and trimming to fit, I need to produce a circular disc that is a good fit in the end of the boiler.

This was my solution:

1. Take flat plate approximately the size of the end plate and soft solder a piece of copper pipe to it.

2. Put pipe in lathe and turn nice circular disc.

3. Unsolder pipe, clean up and place in boiler for soldering.

4. Repeat for other end

And this is the end result:

Maybe not the prettiest of soldering, but will do the job!

So that is the boiler pretty well done!

And it also represents how far I have got up to now!

So to do: finish off boiler fittings for gauge glass, pressure gauge, and test.

Do all the pipework between boiler and cylinders.

Make mounting brackets for the burner.

Not a tremendous amount to do it seems, but my time is a little limited today - I should be able to make a bit more progress this evening and hopefully spend all day on it tomorrow so i am still in with a chance of getting it going - I will keep you posted!

alan2525

I heard about this project when I met up with Ian at the Dorset Steam Fair - he's been doing a good job of keeping it under wraps. The boiler is pretty immense! If the burner works, and looking at that thing, there shouldn't be any shortage of heat! It should run for ages and if Titan's performance is anything to go by will be a real puller too!

Titan

Right, well after a lot of faffing around, a little swearing and at least one broken gauge glass I am finally here -

I had a lot of trouble getting the alignment right for the gauge glass. I thought that if I assembled it all and got it right where it needed to be then I could soft solder the adaptors for the gauge glass and evrything would be fine.

Wrong.

The solder did not take very well and I had joints with leaks. No matter thought I, I can now take the fittings off the boiler and with the help of a 'third hand' * to make sure that nothing moved, I could resolder properly and everything would be OK.

Well no, when said items were re-assembled on the boiler something obviously had moved, and crack went the glass.

So it was out with the soldering iron again and adjust.

This process was repeated until swearing commenced, although I was more careful not to break any more glass. And eventually I got an assembly which did not leak! In fact to test for leaks it was connected to my compressor and submerged in a bucket - hence the plastic adapter and a few drops of water on the boiler.

And yes I am posting this just after I finished!

Time for bed and hopefully an early start later this morning!

* a third hand is like a sprung loaded set of pliers atached via an adjustable arm to a heavy base. Useful for holding things whilst soldering, usually!

Steve_S

It's looking good. I hope things go more smoothly today! I think we'll all be hoping to see it steaming soon!

Titan

Still a bit of faffing around. Some of the joints were not good enough and had to be redone

Anyway, the boiler is now in the loco:

I think the blowdown valve on the gauge glass sticks out a little too far, it may be necessary to remove it, but it will stay on until the loco is tested.

Next job is to do the plumbing to get the steam to the cylinders!

steamyjim

Brilliant mate! Seriously a realy nice peice of work

Can't wait to see it going

Rob

WOW. im lost for words. its awsome ian. realy nice job and wish you all the best with it. looking forward to see-ing it at STIA already. i might even have a go my self, or a garrett.

steamyjim

Rob

yeh, he can. ill do one when i get 2 old mamods and some spare cash.

made-in-england

Brill Ian! Will it get round your layout ok?!

Titan

Yes it will! Maybe not today though, progress a little slow. Working out how to place things like the lubricator and routing the pipework is taking longer than expected. Still one or two pieces to fabricate that could take a little while - the tee piece for splitting the steam pipe in to two for each bogie for example. I will keep at it mind, whether or not I end up putting the railway up under flooodlight I don't know!!!

Rob

ooooo

looking forward to any progress. keep it up

syrtismajor

That is probably the best Mamod Loco modification ever. Hats off to your ingenuity and forethought to bring it all together. I hope you have no further problems putting it together and that she is happily steaming soon!
Any ideas for a name yet? If not I have a suggestion

. Since your other one is called 'Titan' which was a class of greek gods. How about the Roman god 'Janus' who was the two faced god of doors and gates? I think that seems appropriate for a fairlie engine!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Janus

EDIT:- Ok, for some reason I can't get the direct link to work with you clicking on it so you'll have to follow that link and click on the first Wiki entry for the Roman God

Titan

Nearly there! one bogie piped up and articulation checked, looks like it will go round corners.

Just the other to do which should be a little quicker now that I know how to do it. I will test it on air, and in the extremely unlikely event that there are no leaks to attend to I will fire it. Trouble is the railway is not set up and its dark outside, so it is likely to be on blocks, but if it looks promising...

Les

This is getting exciting.

Rob

CANT WAIT!!!

Titan

Just to tease you a little I have some video uploading as we speak... (type?)

made-in-england

OMG!!!!

I need toly down with the exitment xD xD

syrtismajor

Oh you tease!

Show is the vid! (when it's uploaded of course

)

Titan

Here it is:

the first test run on air!

It still has a few leaks, I think the union on the pipe from the regulator needs resoldering. The boiler might be able to keep up, it might not, I will just go and find out!

syrtismajor

You are a Mamod loco god!

Let no one else say anything different

Les

Tremendous, well worth the wait.

johnreid

Wow, that is grand, keep us posted I hope to actually see it in February.

Chris

Great!

If you forget to set the reversers at both ends will it pull itself in half?

pauly

its a mamod frankenstein

Titan

Well here it is - the first steaming!

Quality of the video is a little poor, i compressed it a bit as I did not want to wait all night for it to upload!

Not successful - funnily enough for a rather unexpected reason - but looking promising.

Theres a hell of a lot of heat in that burner - it'll shift anything when its done!

Chris

I'm sure it will be running with a bit of tinkering.

Your test track really makes me nervous though. Think I would either be testing with the track on the floor, or use a loop of track. I can see the thing jumping into life and taking a leap off the track!

Really looking forward seeing this working, and evolving.

alan2525

Shame it didn't play ball on the first firing, but once those leaks are sorted and you've got to run it all in a bit - it should work brilliantly!

All the ingredients are there and it shouldn't have a problem getting enough heat into the boiler with that burner!

syrtismajor

Shame it didn't play first time. Any clues to why that bogie wasn't behaving?

johnreid

I bet it will be quite a brute once you get it sorted out. So frustrating, I can tell.

Les

What was the problem with it in the end??

Titan

alan2525

On my upgraded MSS it was really annoying to begin with, I had to push it most of the way around the garden, after a few laps it had begun to run in a little and after it managed a lap under it's own steam it's just got better and better each time. These things always take a little time to get into their own.

syrtismajor

Titan

It also did not seem that full boiler pressure was getting to the cylinders - it was maintaining about 30 psi, - safety valve set for about 40 psi - which if all of it was getting to the wheels would have meant that the Unmodified Mamod end should have been spinning! Could be there is some restriction as there is a lot of pipework, and the leaks don't help much either, but as I sort the problems out one by one it should be a cracker!

Titan

andysleigh

Thats come along rather quickly.

well done!