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tmuir
Steam Supreme Being
Joined: 01 Aug 2006
Posts: 14557
Location: Western Australia
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 Posted: Sun Nov 19, 2006 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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| oldstuff wrote: | Think you want silver solder, or "plumber's solder", right?  |
Not silver solder as Mamods are soft soldered (lead / tin mix) and silver solder melt point is too high so by time it melts are the other solder joints have come undone.
Plumbers soft solder is exactly want I want but as it is made to solder up big copper pipes were water tight not looks is what counts the diameter of the solder is a lot bigger than I want.
Don't know about the US but in Europe they have passed a law that has or will fade out lead in soft solder for health reasons and so there is a flow on effect to Australia making it harder to get solid lead/tin solder except in big sticks used to fix old car radiators.
Thinking of making up a draw bar from a bit of scrap wood.
Drill a series of holes each one slight smaller than the diameter of my solder to draw it through and make it skinnier so I dont make such a mess soldering.
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Wallace
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Joined: 19 Jul 2006
Posts: 11349
Location: New South Wales, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 7:23 am Post subject: |
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| tmuir wrote: | I've just had a suggestion from the 16mmngm yahoo group that I like to fix the bush and will give it a go as this method dont need to strip down the loco.
Clean paint off boiler around bush on the outside and flux
Fill the boiler mostly full and light the burner.
When water almost burning solder up the bush from the outside.
The idea being the near boiling water has already preheated everything so only a small amount of heat is needed to be applyed to melt the solder.
What solder do people use when resoldering?
I have some lead free soft solder but it is really quiet a wide diameter which makes it hard to do fine work and I can not find solid soft solder with a diameter of only 2mm or so. All solder that small has a resin core for electronics which is not what I want. |
Ages ago I re-soldered a steam pipe into a SE2 boiler at the union joint. I was worried about the other threads melting, so I up ended boiler, filled with water and soldered.
A few weeks ago I re-soldered a union nut bush from the outside, purely by heating. This time I used no water, and it took ok. As MM mentioned, just screw it up and "never unscrew it again.. Well he sorta said that 
When I asked my brother about soldering a while back, who is a plumber, said you would be hard up to have any joint melt while there is water inside, and there should be no need for silver solder unless I paln to run boiler dry. Even with an oxy, soldering copper pipe for houses, water in the pipes causes troubles in regards to solder taking.
On that note, he built a burner, using soft solder, and it works well, handles the heat fine.
I simply use soft solder, lead based, and always use a flux with it, whether or not it has it's own built in flux.
I have recently been using this. I got it from Home Hardware (if you have that over in WA), and there are plenty of same brand, but other types there too.
It is just under 2mm diameter, and much better for end caps than the thicker stuff I used
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tmuir
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Joined: 01 Aug 2006
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Location: Western Australia
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 9:53 am Post subject: |
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Yes have seen that brand before and may give it a try as the solder I got is good, just too fat for fine work.
Most model engineering books teel you to avoid resin cored soft solder for boiler work but as I can't find anything will give it a go.
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Wallace
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Location: New South Wales, Australia
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| tmuir wrote: | Yes have seen that brand before and may give it a try as the solder I got is good, just too fat for fine work.
Most model engineering books teel you to avoid resin cored soft solder for boiler work but as I can't find anything will give it a go. |
Just check around when you find it mate.
There are about 6 or 7 types in that range, at least. Different melting temps too.
Also there lead free stuff too, in the same brand.
There was only one lower in temperature I think, but went for that one as it was for car radiators, which hold similar pressure to mamods, actually wihout looking I think a radiator holds more.
Good luck with it.
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Mamodman123
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 11:40 am Post subject: |
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I just use the normal lead based solder for all my work with flux. I don't think a meths flame will ever de-solder a boiler if there is water in there.
There is really no need for silver soldering on Mamods, the only reason it was done on the G&G was for safety measures to make it 100% bomb proof  
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SPOKESMAN
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| Posted: Mon Nov 20, 2006 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Mamodman123 wrote: | I just use the normal lead based solder for all my work with flux. I don't think a meths flame will ever de-solder a boiler if there is water in there.
There is really no need for silver soldering on Mamods, the only reason it was done on the G&G was for safety measures to make it 100% bomb proof |
aye, and stand up to the treatment meated out by schools' physics and chemmy lab teachers . . . |
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Wallace
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:13 am Post subject: |
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| Mamodman123 wrote: | I just use the normal lead based solder for all my work with flux. I don't think a meths flame will ever de-solder a boiler if there is water in there.
There is really no need for silver soldering on Mamods, the only reason it was done on the G&G was for safety measures to make it 100% bomb proof |
Totally agree MM
I found when removing end caps, the slight bit of water in boiler meant it took ages before solder started to melt. It wasn't until the steam stopped coming out did the solder start to melt. Just that slight bit of water stopped the solder from melting.
Given the area and capacity of a boiler, i'd be a weeks pay that solder wouldn't melt with normal use and water in the boiler, fired by meths
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Mamodman123
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:17 am Post subject: |
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Yes I found that out too! I tried to desolder the end cap on my G+G SE3 lets just say "No chance" and that was using my dads plumbing blow torch! Didn't even come close to melting
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Wallace
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:25 am Post subject: |
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| Mamodman123 wrote: | | Yes I found that out too! I tried to desolder the end cap on my G+G SE3 lets just say "No chance" and that was using my dads plumbing blow torch! Didn't even come close to melting |
Yeah I used silver solder on building my SE3 burner. I used a propane plumbers torch and it took a heap of heat to get the solder flowing.
My brother told me that possibly a correctly silver soldered boiler would fail in the brass before a solder joint failed (when pressure tested).
Your Dad will probably tell you too, that when repairing an exisiting water pipe with some moisture in it, it's hard to solder until moisture goes.
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Mamodman123
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 1:27 am Post subject: |
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Yes I had a feeling the brass would crumple if I didn't stop . Well at least a thread will never go on one .
Yes my dad does the plumbing for new sinks and washing machines when he fits the kitchens. He used to be corgi registered for gas aswell
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SPOKESMAN
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| Posted: Tue Nov 21, 2006 5:07 am Post subject: |
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| Sounds like it pretty near impossible to blow up an SE3 G&G boiler! |
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tmuir
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Location: Western Australia
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 4:30 am Post subject: |
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I've think I've fixed the boiler on the loco will try a steam up after lunch when my son is awake.
I used the tip given on the 16mmngm group and half filled the boiler, fluxed the joint after removing the paint put 6 mills of meths in the burner and lit it up.
Once water was boiling soldered up the steam dome bush.
I went against all good engineering principles and soldered it up with electrical solder with resin core as it was the only fine solder I could get my hands on.
Pretty sure solder wont melt as even with water boiling had to hold the flame from my butane burner on the bush for about 1 minute before it would get hot enough for the solder to flow.
The fine solder worked well and the repair isn't too obvious, will let you know if it passes the steam test.
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Wallace
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tmuir
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Location: Western Australia
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 6:14 am Post subject: |
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Just steamed it with my 20 PSI safety valve installed.
All worked fine, no leaks so I'm back in business.
Every time I steam it, it runs a bit better too, its going to be great once its fully run in.
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SPOKESMAN
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| Posted: Sat Nov 25, 2006 7:10 am Post subject: |
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| tmuir wrote: | Just steamed it with my 20 PSI safety valve installed.
All worked fine, no leaks so I'm back in business.
Every time I steam it, it runs a bit better too, its going to be great once its fully run in. |
Excellent - we look forwar to some more vids!! And that out tdoor railway! |
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