The Unofficial Mamod and Other Steam Forum

steamyjim · Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:22 am Post subject:

As i say have a good play with the setting of the gas jet. I might have a drawing somewhere. I got to do some scanning for Rog, if i can find it ill scan these aswell

My Iver being the prototype did a lot of demonstration runs so didn't need running in atall, wherhas my Pintail needed a good few hours running on air then another few hours under steam. It's still not perfect though

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CCairns · Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:32 am Post subject:

steamyjim · Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:01 am Post subject:

I'll have a look at those scans

I used butane/propane mix

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mc_mc · Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 10:50 am Post subject:

Sorry for the "stupid" question, but what's the difference between a "train" and a "tram".

It's a lovely looking beast all the same, hope you get it running well soon.

CCairns · Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 1:04 pm Post subject:

In basic terms I think a tram is lighter than a train, and it was designed for a lot of street running. They were also less powerful than locomotives due to the limited space available for the boiler, etc.

Although none operate in normal service these days, there are still a few preserved worldwide. See here for a definition of tram http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tram , and here for a working steam tram http://www.geocities.com/tramwaynz/steam/steam.html , and another one here at MOTAT, New Zealand http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HikM8GRJRvE&feature=related
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WillH · Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:23 pm Post subject:

Chris etal

Well, this is interesting and fun. Having never worked with anything Cheddar this is all new to me.

The whistle is just air being sucked into the burner chamber to support combustion. I fiddled with burner height last night. Chris the instructions you posted said to adjust for best burn – well, I can’t tell any difference no matter what I do to the jet height. I even removed the ceramic chamber from the boiler and tried that – couldn’t tell much difference in the flame either way either????? BTW I’m using pure butane – but I do use 70/30 mix in my engines. Might try that next.

The engine was running pretty well when I gave up last night. Bugger sure throws oil! I’m not going to rust – that’s for sure.

I do have a rather serious problem. It holds 40 psig just fine, until I set the wheels in motion, then the pressure drops to nearly 10 psig rapidly. I tried to adjust the burner setting looking for a hotter burn to help maintain pressure. No luck. It simply won’t hold steam pressure while running.

Here’s picture of the ole’ gal under steam! My camera froze the motion – couldn’t believe it! The steam oil coalesced on the driver wheel rim is the only indication that it’s running. Look closely at the front driver wheel to see the liquid spinning from the outer wheel rim. These little digital cameras are really something. Froze the motion and with a flash - those wheels were flying at the time. Well, I was impressed…

The saga will continue today.

Best,

Will

WillH · Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:24 pm Post subject:

Chris etal

For some reason I posted the same thing twice. Must be really proud

Oops! We have wonderful day starting so I'm gonna put the Cheddar on the track. No guts, no glory! It won't hold steam pressure long enough to go very far anyhoo........

Steamyjim, me thinks you are correct... just run the engine! When I air tested the engine I only ran it for a couple minutes. Just enough to see if it was going to function. The engine was never steamed until now, it's just been sitting around. It's an oily mess now - the easy life is gone forever!

Best,

Will

CCairns · Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:08 pm Post subject:

Yes I experienced a similar problem setting up the jet on my Cheddar Steam Launch 'Claire'.

The instructions talked about a line being scribbed on the jet, but mine had none. So I phoned up Cheddar Models and was told to start with the jet about half way in, then move it in until there was a strong smell of unburnt gas coming from the chimney and then slowly move it out until this smell disappeared, that is all the gas is being burnt. Lock in place and mark the jet. Not a very satisfactory method. I had similar problems with fitting a gas ceramic burner to my IP Jane, as the burner was hidden by the chassis plates. So I had to set that one up with the burner removed from the chassis. I found these instructions on www.ministeam.com which explain a bit better what you should be looking for in a ceramic burner, including the noise problem.

WillH · Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:27 pm Post subject:

Chris,

I appreciate the words of caution. I talked with Roundhouse about the tank awhile back. Here's what they have posted on their web site:

"We offer a range of gas tanks as fitted to our locomotives. These are all fully finished, pressure tested and certified (conforms to the Pressure Equipmenr Directive 97/23/EC) and can be supplied either with or with out gas regulator and gas filler valve. Outlet pipes are all fitted with our standard 1/4" x 40ME union nut and nipple. All are capable of holding butane, iso-butane or butane/propane mixed gas in an operating temperature upto but not exceeding 65 degrees celcius."

I trust the "British" to do it right! Yes, that is a political statement!

I also appreciate those instructions for setting the burner flame. I will follow those instructions. Where can one find a replacement ceramic burner element? Just in case!

Best,

Will

CCairns · Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 4:39 pm Post subject:

It is interesting that Roundhouse say their gas tanks are suitable for butane/propane mix, as on other online forums I've read owners discussing the fact that Roundhouse say only use butane gas with their locos.

Only dealer I've found online so far that do these small circular gas ceramic burners are our good rip-off friends at Stuart Models. Very rarely see them on ebay.
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WillH · Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:23 pm Post subject:

Chris,

First! The smell test did the trick! Just sniff the stack! That actually works! I shoulda known that! It's all set - no squealing! Thank you my friend! The other deal worked fine while the burner was outta the boiler. Install the burner and flop... everything went to poop!

I have read more crap on the Internet! It's akin to a public toilet, IMHO. One must really know the source of the information to determine the factuality of any information. I trust you guys. If some fool would post dies-information here it would be challenged immediately. I know that……

I have read more "crap" about Roundhouse Engineering on the Internet. When I go to the horses mouth (so-to-speak) things change quickly. Roundhouse stuff works - period! If there is a problem they fix it! The quality is excellent. Their detail is the only minus - but I'm not a rivet counter, not an issue with me. This Cheddar is a fine little engine, if I get it running. Stuart stuff is excellent, just too pricey. Me thinks Stuart has an ego problem. A little condescending too, IMHO. $214 USD for a fuel tank – please!

Gee I got off tack......nuff said. It does boil my oil to read some of the garbage people post on the Internet.

BTW, I run a 70/30 mix in all my Roundhouse engines during the winter because is lights easier.

Best,

Will

WillH · Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 8:47 pm Post subject:

Okay! Several hours of running - well, sorta running. The engine will not generate enough heat to keep the water boiling.

I has a #8 jet installed. The Roundhouse uses a #20. I can't tell but the #20 looks smaller. Is that correct, higher number = smaller jet?

I'm open for suggestions.

Best,

Will

CCairns · Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 9:22 pm Post subject:

Have not really found anything useful on the model steam websites, but if it follows the same pattern as Bray Gas Injectors, then the larger number indicates a bigger bore diameter.

No.8 jet is the most common for Cheddar burners, with No.5 & No.16 being still available as spares also.
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DLR · Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 11:37 pm Post subject:

The burner might not be designed for the job (bare with me) In the early days of gas firing, makers were not used to it so whereas some burners could produce plenty of steam others had to be turned up alot higher. If that dont work its a blocked jet, put it on the adapter, smallest hole facing donw and push and the gas blows any blockedge out. Hope this helps

Dan

WillH · Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 2:37 am Post subject:

I dunno what's wrong. I can see light through the jet, and the hole is bigger than the hole in my #20 jet. The burner simply will not make enough heat to keep the engine running. The fuel tank is ice cold and covered with condensation so there too much gas running out. OR the tank is cooling down too much and not allowing the fuel to vaporize properly. I know getting another burner will be impossible. Contacting Stuart would be a horrid alternative sooooo.....any other suggestions?

The engine will run great down to 5# of pressure... wonderful, but the boiler just can't keep up. If it wasn't for this burner problem it would be a fantastic engine. I read all the reports about no control - well that just ain't so. I have plenty of control, from high speed to a slow crawl.

Also, I discovered too much exhaust condensate water was running back down the stack to the burner. I ran the exhaust out the side the stack, which helps.

I need another burner! Any suggestions!?

Best,

Will