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Cheddar Pintail engine, question for owners
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kno3


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:58 pm    Post subject: Cheddar Pintail engine, question for owners Reply with quote

I have a question to all who use a Cheddar Pintail engine in their boats etc. Do you find the engine easy to control at slow speed?

This is the engine I mean:
2016-11-27_04-40-11 by -kno3-, on Flickr
More details about the steam plant here: http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org/ftopic18647-0-asc-60.php

My Pintail seems to only run fast and very fast. Whenever I try to adjust it via the rotary reversing valve to run slow, it gets difficult. It runs slower but is difficult to achieve. When trying to reverse it stalls and needs a full steam reversing to get it started again.

I'd like to hear if you have experienced similar issues.
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Les


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I do not have the Pintail, I have the Cheddar Pipit, Puffin and Proteus and do not have a problem with any of them.

Did you get the Pintail from new or secondhand?
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kno3


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perhaps I should add that the engine itself is able to run slow (for instance on air) it is hjust very difficult to adjust the rotary valve for slow running when on steam and in the boat.

I got it used (ittle), but it seems to be fine.
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Les


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check that there is nothing blocking anything, all the surfaces mate and nothing is binding, it could be it needs a bit of running in.
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H2o vapour


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 10:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chedder stuff is the Bee's knees  -

As said it should run very smooth all the way. I don't have one but know of many and allot of very satisfied owners.

Mark
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gen3v8


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 1:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have the Pelican horizontal and it runs perfectly
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CCairns


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a Cheddar Claire steam launch which uses this engine. Only ever tried on water in my bath, and not run for some years, but do not recall any running problems.

I was having running problems with my Cheddar/GRS Tram & Cheddar Iver, which use similar oscillating cylinders. After honing the cylinders/backplates, and adjusting the pivot bolt tension, I eventually found it was down to the steam oil I was using. I had been using the normal 460 steam oil (as sold by Morris Lubricants) that I use in other engines, but on using some genuine Cheddar Models steam oil (the darker treacle colour 460, like the Regner brand), these locomotives ran much better.

I've been unable to find out what the difference is between these two 460 steam oils.

Chris Cairns
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Tony Bird


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Calin,

I have a question to all who use a Cheddar Pintail engine in their boats etc. Do you find the engine easy to control at slow speed?  My Pintail seems to only run fast and very fast. Whenever I try to adjust it via the rotary reversing valve to run slow, it gets difficult. It runs slower but is difficult to achieve. When trying to reverse it stalls and needs a full steam reversing to get it started again.  I'd like to hear if you have experienced similar issues.

I do not have or have worked on a Pintail though I know the person that designed it very well.

The fault that you describe could be caused by the spring that holds the cylinder to the port face being too tight, they look like very strong springs,  so a half or even a quarter turn of the nuts could make a lot of difference to the friction.  I usually set the springs up by starting with the nuts just holding the cylinder to the port face then running the engine on air, first there will be a leak at the port faces, I then tighten the nuts until a leak starts at about 30 psi.  I have a variable pressure regulator which makes this fairly easy to do.  I have found that my engines run with slacker springs than a lot of other peoples do.  You might like to try slackening the springs off and see if it makes any difference.  Friction can also be reduced by having a high finish on the port faces.  Also if the reversing valve is used as a regulator some designs throttle both the steam and exhaust at the same time they are not as sensitive as the design where the exhaust opens before the steam.  It might be an obstruction in the pipes or a poor seal on the piston both of which as easy to check.

I hope this helps.

Regards Tony.
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kno3


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 17, 2017 9:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies. I will check the spring tension too, although it doesn't seem overly tight.
You might also be on to something with the oiling, will try that too.

It's a bit puzzling as I couldn't really call the engine faulty. Just difficult to set to run very slow on r/c, and on a tug I really think the engine should be able to run very slow for different maneuvers. Right now it's more of a racing tug.  
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gen3v8


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 1:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did notice my steam valve/regulator was extra tight once, binding stragely, and it was doing something similar. I can`t remember but maybe it was what you`re experiencing.
P.S.Mine is also r/c
edit: It was under steam when it happens
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kno3


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PostPosted: Sat Feb 18, 2017 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes my reversing valve seems to be quite stiff under steam as well. The servo can't move it smoothly then.

However, the engine gets oil because I find it in the condenser at the end of the run and the oiler is empty.

It's quite puzzling.
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gen3v8


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 19, 2017 2:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kno3 wrote:
Yes my reversing valve seems to be quite stiff under steam as well. The servo can't move it smoothly then.

However, the engine gets oil because I find it in the condenser at the end of the run and the oiler is empty.

It's quite puzzling.

Pull it apart and clean and grease it. That's what I did to free mine up and make it smooth again. Plus I lube mine in that area after each steaming and it no longer binds on its shaft and spring



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kno3


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 20, 2017 10:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi all & thanks!

Following the advice from Jerry @ Clevedon steam I have done the following:
- lapped the rotary valve and the spring ends, as these were quite sharp and it looks like they dug in the brass, making the valve sluggish.
- bored the centre of the rotary valve from 4 mm to 4,1 mm, as the rather tight tolerance could cause the brass center rod with the screw to bind when hot and expanding under steam.
The valve is a bit easier to turn now.

As Tony & gen3v8 said, I have also
- slackened the cylinder retaining springs 3/4 of a turn. Since the engine was designed for 3 bar, the springs might be overly tight for my 2 bar boiler operating pressure.

Chris: I am now using Regner steam oil.
- I will try to obtain another brand of steam oil and see if it makes a difference.

The engine turns easier now, but a test on steam, hopefully tomorrow, will tell if this solved the problem.
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gen3v8


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

kno3 wrote:
Hi all & thanks!

Following the advice from Jerry @ Clevedon steam I have done the following:
- lapped the rotary valve and the spring ends, as these were quite sharp and it looks like they dug in the brass, making the valve sluggish.
- bored the centre of the rotary valve from 4 mm to 4,1 mm, as the rather tight tolerance could cause the brass center rod with the screw to bind when hot and expanding under steam.
The valve is a bit easier to turn now.

As Tony & gen3v8 said, I have also
- slackened the cylinder retaining springs 3/4 of a turn. Since the engine was designed for 3 bar, the springs might be overly tight for my 2 bar boiler operating pressure.

Chris: I am now using Regner steam oil.
- I will try to obtain another brand of steam oil and see if it makes a difference.

The engine turns easier now, but a test on steam, hopefully tomorrow, will tell if this solved the problem.

Hello,
      Thank you for the kind mention but PLEASE don't mention me for the suggestion of the cylinder retaining spring. As all my posts referred to the steam, regulator or rotary valve as you name it    
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kno3


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 21, 2017 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Must have mixed it up  
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