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William II, help needed

 
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Reichsstaedter


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Joined: 28 Dec 2013
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Location: Waiblingen - Germany

PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 11:06 am    Post subject: William II, help needed Reply with quote

Hi guys
I recently bought a William II in a quite poor condition. The gas valve and the steam valve leaked badly also the O-rings on the pistons and glands seem to leak. So I ordered new O-rings from Mamod directly.
Thanks Dave for this excellent service
Replacing the O-rings on the valves was not a problem. But how to disassemble the cylinders to replace the O-rings on the pistons and glands? Are the glands fixed by a press-fit?
Any advice is really appreciated Help
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SLR


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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a William myself, but have not yet dismantled the cylinders. However, I'm guessing that they'll be constructed in a similar way to my Telford's cylinders, which means the caps are pressed in. Now when I say "pressed in" I mean "PRESSED in" ! They were a nightmare to get out; expect some damage. A photo may help, as I believe that these engines may have been supplied with more than one type of cylinder.

By the way, forum member Chris Cairns wrote an informative thread on the William; a google search should find it.
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CCairns


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PostPosted: Fri May 26, 2017 9:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Christoph,

Yes the piston gland collar is pressed into the William II cylinders, just like all the other cylinders to date. Mamod are supposed to be introducing a removable screw fitted gland collar but not seen any evidence yet.

As the William II gland collar is similar to that fitted on the Mark I loco, I'll list the actions taken by another owner to replace the piston 'O' ring in a Mark I's cylinder.

They are brass so carefully consider what tools & how much pressure to use with this soft metal.

The Mark I owner used a spanner to keep tightening the hex shaped piston gland collar until the whole collar rotated in the cylinder block. He then used a pair of molegrips or pliers to grip the collar and pull it out by a combination of pulling & turning. Of course this method damaged the outside of the gland collar but it still sealed OK when refitted. Perhaps holding this collar in a vice using leather or something similar may work.

The William cylinders had a different piston rod collar (no 'O' rings) and the piston rod & piston were made from a single piece. Watch syrtismajor's video of how he removed the piston & piston gland using a threaded stud here (scroll down to the 10th posting where he has posted 2 relevant videos) - http://modelsteam.myfreeforum.org...topic.php?t=16025&start=0

I wish you the best of luck with your William II. Mine has always been a very erratic runner and after lots of tweaks, etc. it has been consigned to the back of a dark cupboard in disgrace!

Chris Cairns
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Reichsstaedter


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many thanks SLR and Chris for your advices.The piston rods on my William are made of brass so they are the newer ones with the Floating Pistons? Is that right? If so will it be possible to press out the piston with a M4 rod as described by syrtismajor without damaging the piston?
Chris your experience with the William II sounds not very encouraging, anyway I will continue trying to get him in service again.
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SLR


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2017 3:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If your cylinders have an "O" ring gland held in place by a threaded hex cap, and the piston rods are brass, then the pistons may be "floating", or possibly not; you never can be sure with Mamod, as they like to change things as they go along.

I would advise against trying to remove the caps by turning the gland nut until the cap itself starts to rotate; this worked on my MkI and MkII locos with oscillating cylinders, but there is very little thread on those caps, and that method would not have worked on my Telford cylinders. If you're ok with drilling and tapping the cylinders as shown by syrtismajor, then that is probably the best way.

When I finally get around to trying to fix my William, I'll probably just drill out the end of the cylinder, press the piston and cap out, then bore/hone the cylinders all the way through and then turn up some new caps (incidentally, this is also what I did with the MkI oscillating cylinders).
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mikewakefielduk


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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2017 8:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would cylinders from a Telford fit a William? If so you could either buy replacements from mamod or find somebody who has upgraded their 9.5mm cylinders to 10.5mm and see if they'll sell you their old cylinders.

Saves a lot of butchering your old cylinders.
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Reichsstaedter


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 6:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Finally the pistons and the gland have their new O-rings.  
I drilled and tapped the front ends of the cylinders to press the collar out using a M4 screw. Worked pretty good and luckily without any damage. Only the result is not the best. The left cylinder is not sealed good inside. Maybe I have to take it out once again an fill the groove with a layer of Teflon tape to increase the compression of the O-ring.
Next question is how to remove the wheels from the axles as I want to regauge William to 45mm. I guess it's a press fit. Can anyone confirm or deny this?
Thanks and have a nice Sunday evening
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Coldgunner


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 09, 2017 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've got the 9.5mm cylinders kicking around after my upgrade if you're interested.
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CCairns


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 1:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Christoph,

Yes the William II steel wheels are just press fitted to the axle. I had one come off on my William II's rear axle so had to be careful refitting it with Loctite 603 to ensure none got into the slip eccentric mechanism on the rear of that wheel.

I'd be interested to hear how you are going to re-gauge this to 45mm.

I do not recall the William II being available in 45mm gauge. Certainly the William was, as were a limited number of the earlier Golden Jubilee locomotives.

Chris Cairns
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Reichsstaedter


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coldgunner wrote:
I've got the 9.5mm cylinders kicking around after my upgrade if you're interested.

Thanks for your kind offer. For now my cylinders are not completely destroyed. Maybe I will be there some day
At present I intend to use mine...
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Reichsstaedter


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 14, 2017 11:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Chris for confirming the press fit of the whhels.
Meanwhile I made a tool for pressing the wheels off the axles. It worked good on the first trial but what I discovered was not a usual press fit, it's a kind of splined shaft. So I'm not sure on choosing the correct diameter for the new axles in gauge I.
In my mind the re-gauging is already done, execution is partially started:
- longer studs for the cylinders are already made. It's the only thing which is finished yet.
- spacer plates to be set between the valve chests and the frame. They will be 6mm in thickness.
- new axles 11.6mm longer than the original ones. With the 6mm spacer plates I hope to avoid the collision between the crossheads and the front wheels.
- spacer sleeves between the wheels and the bearings, thickness is not calculated or measured out for now.

I hope this will do the job  
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SLR


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 12:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Reichsstaedter wrote:

- spacer sleeves between the wheels and the bearings, thickness is not calculated or measured out for now.

I hope this will do the job  


As I'm sure you've realised, these spacers will need to be quite a large diameter on the rear wheelset, as they will need to keep the eccentric gear together; originally the design relied on the actual frames (!) for this purpose. May be an idea to fix these spacers to the axle using a grub screw, which would keep the eccentric assembly together better.
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Reichsstaedter


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="SLR:1371776"]
Reichsstaedter wrote:

... May be an idea to fix these spacers to the axle using a grub screw, which would keep the eccentric assembly together better.

Thanks for this good idea. I will keep it in mind for sure  Thumbs up!
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