The Unofficial Mamod and Other Steam Forum

Cedge · Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 7:58 am Post subject:

Tmuir
As luck would have it, the heater is indeed intact and appears, at least from visual inspection, to be in excellent shape and should be operational. This particular style of heating element is simply not available anymore. I've seen serious Jensen collectors go to great lengths to protect these rare little devils. A good spare is nearly worth its weight in gold.

The smoke stack will have to be handmade, but I have the original specs and material on hand.

The whistle port boss was fixed before I even gave the engine a preliminary wipe down and full inspection.

A running engine to add to my collection is the end goal.

You are correct in assuming this one to be quite rare and of high value. At present two of them are known to exist and I'm currently working to determine if a third one is in here, from a client, for restoration.

Steve

SPOKESMAN · Guest

I certainly think the Jensen could do with some work, the lack of a chimney looks very odd, the paint of the firebox does mar its looks, Id perhaps see if I could leave the engine paint work - concentrate on the firebox and sorting the mechanical issues.

Looks a tough old machine!

Wallace · Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 11:12 am Post subject:

[quote="Cedge]

I've just bought what is perhaps the oldest Jensen model 10 I've ever encountered. This engine, from all empirical evidence, dates back to the time of 1933... only one year after Jensen was founded. A 1932 date could possibly be persuasively argued, but I'm quite content to let the '33 time stamp stand, at least until more definitive information becomes available.

Great idea Cedge, certainly worth a discussion, and you should have started a new thread mate, it's worth it

Ok, here I go. I'll comment under each bit and am looking at the pics

Engine is dirty to the max.

Boiler looks clean, but anyway I'd clean it using whatever methods you use.

40% plus or minus of the firebox paint has departed exposing galvanized steel

Being gal steel, I'd be inclined to leave it as is. Reason being it's suitable wear for it's age, and not detrimental to the life of the engine

Smoke Stack housing is missing

Not sure what this bit is? Cos I thought it was the bit at end of bolier that chimney attaches to? That bit is badly rusted.
The rust converter I use turns black, even if you get it on paintwork, but need rust to work. As it is badly rusted I'd hit it with the rust converter, then leave it keeping an eye out for a spare in better condition.
I wouldn't make another though, cos I wouldn't be able to match it.

Chimney is missing.

If it's easy to make one, I would try making one, in the meantime also keeping a lookout for a original replacement

White control handles badly deteriorated

I would try an make some suitable to replicate the originals.

Motor has 80% plus paint intact, but stained from age and environment with some surface rust apparent on the magnet.
Nickle plating is in near new condition on all plated parts
Round hotplate style, ceramic based nichrome wire style heating element is in pristine condition but past experience tells me it's likely to be too fragile to remove.

I'd leave all that as is. Try clean rust off magnet perhaps.

replacement smokestack housing is rusted and will require repainting.

Ahh, so it's a replacement. In that case I would treat and paint

Wooden base is in very good condition but impregnated with grime.

Clean and polish

Original power cord is present but had non original plug end.

I'd leave as is, unless you can find a replacement

Lamp post is in need of solder to secure the round metal base.

I'd resolder. I don't ever consider soldering, if done neatly, to affect the engine in anyway.

Engine arrived with whistle port boss broken away from the boiler requring resoldering to repair. (bad packaging and impact during transit)

As above

Photos of this engine can be seen at http://www.cedesign.net/steam/10 .

Have a fair go at it and then I'll describe its likely future fate and why.

Best
Steve[/quote]
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Griffin · Posted: Sun Feb 18, 2007 6:19 pm Post subject:

Thanks Steve for letting us all cast a critical eye over this engine.

Firstly it needs a thorough cleaning, then it will be easier to see the extent of wear on this engine.

The heater I would leave well alone, as like you say it is to fragile to risk taking apart, and impossible to replace.

I too would go with fabricating a new smoke stack to original specification.

I would probably go with repainting the firebox, as the smokebox will need re-doing, It will stand out a mile if you don't

Regarding the cast iron engine frame, that is a tough call, as the paint does not look bad. But as you say the magnet has some rust, so will need addressing.

From the photo's the base does not look bad, but a dicision would be best after a good clean

Another factor to consider is the condition of the engines it will be displayed with, for examle if they are all in A1 condition this one will look out of place if is not wearing it's best clothes.

If nothing else this engine desives to have some treatment, purely on the grounds of it's rarity.

Which ever route you choose, good luck and I look forward to the end results.
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mj · Guest

l'd tend to agree with most other comments & say preserve whats already there as much as possible rather than replace/repaint. The only cautionary note would be the crumbly state of what looks like asbestos in the firebox surrounding the heating element.

Cedge · Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:55 pm Post subject:

Being that this post is in an off the main beaten path of the forum, I'll assume the majority of the responses have been made. Feel free to jump in with your thoughts even after I've posted the engine's future fate.

The little Jensen model 10 will join my own collection so it''s going to be in the company of some pretty well endowed engines. This fact colors my decision some, but it is not a major weight in the consideration process.

The wooden base will recieve a good application of wood conditioning oils, but the varnished finish is in good confdtion and will only suffer cleaning with Murphy's oil soap and a bit of Old English almond oil to give it a warm glow.

The engine's motor will be pretty much left as isSince the paint is original and close to 90% there, it's to be preserved and cleaned , with only sufficient effort to put it in top flight condition. Mechaincally the engine will only need a small timing adjustment

All the plated surfaces will be cleaned and polished to their best possible shine. This will eleiminate some light hazing but retain any heavier marks from normal play. This has always allowed for the bestof both worlds, a good shine and retention of character.

The fire box is missing paint well past my "40%" rule of thumb, so it will be getting a very careful stripping and new paint. Part of this decision is due to the need to repaint the stack housing. Snce it will have to be stripped, the rust removed and then repainted, It is going to make the rest of the firebox even more noticable. Nothing looks worse than nice fresh paint residing right next to the sort of damage the firebox paint is showing. Uniform texture and color and condition are the heavy weights in this choice. In for a penny, in for a pound on this area.

The new smoke stack is a no brainer since it is to be a perfect match to the original. Sorry Roger... it gets painted black too...LOL.

Great care will be needed to work with this machine since the heater will have to remain in the firebox the whole time.

Small things like the power cord end and the white handles will be a mixed bag. The handles will be left alone if they do not lose the residual amount of material still clinging to them. The power cord will be refitted with an original and true to the era, bakelite end.

The enegine will receive the minimum attention possible to make things harmonious yet faithful to the age of the engine. It will retain many of the battle scars but they will no longer hide under dirt and grime. The engine is 75 years old... it should have a few wrinkles. It's earned them.

The various small repairs with solder are typical of any restoration and are considered part of steam engine husbandry. If it isn't in mechanically sound condition all the paint it the world won't make it run.
The asbrestos sheeting is something I'm used to dealing with and is not the devilish threat it's been made out to be. Just keep it moist and bagged until its ready to go back in the engine. I don't chew it and I'm we'll past my days of inhaling recreational substances. The risk is acceptable if handled carefully.

A note to Spokesman...
These older Jensen engines with riveted boilers were definitely built to last. They've also become rather expensive to acquire in the past few years. The current line of Jensen Commercial / Collector series machines of today are still handmade from the same materials and using many of the same dies and tooling as this engine saw during its creation.

Don't tell anyone, but I've got a very old meth heated black firebox Jensen model 75 coming available. It is all original, only missing its original meth burner. See?... I really am trying to make it easy for you and MM to become a Jensen collectors without compromising your personal honor....(evil grin)

Best
Steve

IndianaRog

Hi Steve,

Well, I was curious how you were going to approach restoration of that piece. It will be a challenge refinishing the firebox without removing the heater...but I'm sure the end will justify the means.

Glad you are keeping for the Gallery...it needs a showcase for sure.
Press on...more photos when she's ready for the prom.

Rog

ps...a nickel stack would look so sweet though historically wrong!!!
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SPOKESMAN · Guest

Sandman · Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 8:41 pm Post subject:

Or slamming a revolving door.

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tmuir · Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:29 pm Post subject:

I think that is the best that could be expect Cedge.
Got to have the engine running or its just no fun but keep as much original as possible.
I did think when I said repaint smokestack and not firebox it would look a bit funny and after I had done that I may have changed my mind and repainted firebox aswell.

Looking forward to the finished pictures
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A nice example of an Australian made Scorpion Donkey Engine

oldstuff · Posted: Mon Feb 19, 2007 11:59 pm Post subject:

Rare piece of Jensen history you picked up there, Cedge! What's the timeline
when Jensen made the alcohol fired models? Which models were they?
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Cedge · Posted: Tue Feb 20, 2007 1:16 am Post subject:

Tmuir...
I've always tried to keep things as close to original as possible and I really try to avoid repainting where possible. I've often gone to great pains to clean painted surfaces to get them as close to original color as possible, but i'm not obsessive about it. What I can't do is paint adjacent parts of the same color or finish and not do the whole job.

I don't hesitate to polish bright works but I'll also accept a bit of pitting and scratches rather than go for fresh plating. Fresh plate is reserved for when the nickle has been polished or worn away by about 25-30% or has been chipped off leaving hard sharp edges which will eventually begin pealing away again.

When I do retorations for others, I let them know that I intend to maintain the look and feel of an old engine thoughout the process. I do not offer a showroom new restoration. If they want to go that route, Im not their guy. It's much more difficult to restore while maintaining the character of the engine than to give it a full total face lift.

Oldstuff
Accepted wisdom is that the solitary meth fired Jensen model was only produced for a short period during the 1950's. Tom Sr. was never comfortable with the idea of possible fire dangers and decided to discontinue the model. Unofficial oral history has it that he destroyed quite a number of them and continued to do so anytime he could could secure one, even after he took them off the market.

This particular model 75 was built with what is now the motor for our model 70 oscillator engine. The engine was rebirthed and designated as model 70 using electic heat. Then in 1961 Tom reintorduced the model 75 as the dry fuel heated sister to the model 25 engine. I've gotten some really confused information requests because of this snarled evolution.

It's a rare piece in its own right and an interesting historical addition for any Jensen collection.

Steve