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DJM · Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 5:39 pm Post subject: Whats Happening to 4472

Hi,

Just wondering whats happening to The Flying Scotsman
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pauly · Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 6:36 pm Post subject:

I think the dam things cursed, cracks in the boiler and frames I believe have been discovered.

How many years and £s is it over scedule now?

The NRM has pretty much banned photography in an attempt to hide this disaster.
I now agree with Bessy that it should just be stuffed and mounted and the cash used to bring Blue Peter and Green Arrow back into operation.
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NickB · Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 9:55 pm Post subject:

It surprises me that the NRM appear to have missed the cracks in the first place. The cracks are being repaired at the moment. I think its a bit late in the day now for the 'stuffed and mounted' option because it needs to get out there and earn the cash spent or at least a large percentage on its restoration. I think it's just the fact that its so famous has made them restore it and that a lot of people have a soft spot for it.

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bessytractor · Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:40 pm Post subject:

Aaaah the 4472 saga

I am perfectly prepared to go down the bookies and put a bet down that it will fail within its first year in traffic, probably with boiler problems.

I cannot for the LIFE OF ME figure out why the NRM insisted on installing a rather knackered A3 boiler. When its under the crinolines you CAN'T SEE IT!!!!! And to top it off, it cost a bit more than Tornado's new boiler! Its mental!

Then they flaming well sold a perfectly repairable A4 boiler, that could have been used as a spare for a quick boiler swap when the inevitable happens. Alternatively it could have been popped into Mallard!

I'm sorry if I appear to be a cynical git, but I think my points above show you why I find it all to be a bit all over the place.

What we have to remember, is the loco is not young, it is getting on for its 90th birthday, and I'm sorry, but how many elderly people of that age do the 400m event? Thats what asking these machines to do on the mainline is the equivalent of, they are hauling heavier trains, to much tighter timings than they ever would in frontline service (except maybe in the war!). We cannot keep hammering them, I am firmly of the opinion that you can throw as much money at it as you like, but 4472 is considerably past its best, and now needs to be conserved rather than run up and down the mainline repeatedly.

On the plus side, I got a nice wallet out of the 4472 merchandising for my last birthday

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pauly · Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 10:55 pm Post subject:

I couldnt agree more on the boiler swap mate, the A4 boiler was better, had more life in it, was more effiecient and just better than the A3 boiler that replaced it.

They defended the choice to fit Scotsman with those german smoke deflectors with the argument that it made the loco better suited to the mainline and that it was more important than historic accuracy, OK I cant argue but then they flip flop back on themselves and replaced the perfectly good boiler with a not so good boiler on the grounds that it was more historically accurate...

...Ok so now its historical accuracy over mainline running???

you cant have it both ways NRM!

Scotsmanns carried the torch of preservation pretty much non stop for the last 50 odd years, its carried this torch to the other side of the globe and back.
Perhaps shes earned a break.
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bessytractor · Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:02 pm Post subject:

personally I think its Tornado's time to take up the mantel. I've just read that the main stretcher is knackered on 4472, well, thats a pretty serious problem, that, I'm just amazed they didn't find it before. It is definitely a sign of her age.

I can't fault the NRM too much though, they are saying they will return a Stanier tank to the mainline, now that will be fun!
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pauly · Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:05 pm Post subject:

bessytractor · Posted: Wed Sep 21, 2011 11:06 pm Post subject:

DolwyddelanLightRail · Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:27 am Post subject:

Flying Scot is completely overrated in my opinion, OK it has been around the world etc, but why are the NRM saying that they want an original A3 boiler in it? When most of the loco isnt going to be original anyway? I think the better ethos is saying as long as it doesnt change the look/how the loco operates at all then its good enough to work on it! As BT said, its like trying to get an OAP to do a 400 metre sprint

simon hudson · Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:10 pm Post subject:

From what I remember Green Arrow will never be repaired as her cylinder block is cracked (its a one piece casting I think)? and as she is part of the national collection that forbids any new castings being done as she has to be kept in an original condition mental isn't it.
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SapperAnt · Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 9:41 pm Post subject:

They couldve built a copy of an A3 for less....why didnt they? Shoudlve stuffed and mounted No. 103 (never carried 4472 as an A3 - it was an Alan Peglerism) and built a copy.

The cracks in the frames of 103 apparently occured during road transit to Bury.

RE. Green Arrow its not that the monoblock casting is original thats the problem...its getting one cast.
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Wandering-Willie · Posted: Thu Sep 22, 2011 11:53 pm Post subject:

Datsun Boy · Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 3:07 am Post subject:

I totally agree with retiring the Scotsman. I don't think there would be single loco anywhere in the world that has done as much work as the Scotsman poor old girl

.
It's as stupid as spending millions on getting the "LION" back to mainline

when a replica should be built

. That way you would have something that could be built
to and from old school or modern ways and run for a 100 years then scrapped and another one built. I feel there is a point where originality surely must be more important
that keeping it going. If you end up replacing enough parts, you end up having a replica anyway

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Wandering-Willie · Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 6:51 am Post subject:

SapperAnt · Posted: Fri Sep 23, 2011 8:55 am Post subject:

But this is a position many preserved railways are going to be in: the original locomotives are going to get too old and the skill base to repair them is going to dwindle.

A lot of pre-war engines will be stuff and mounted in the next ten years or so as they are just too old to keep going. Big shame but start building modern replicas now really.

THe problem is, is that so many enthusiasts wnat to see a locomotive run irrsepecitve of its age or historical value, e.g. all the trainspotters wanting City of Birmingham to run despite its massive historical value as it is. It, like 103 is a historical artefact and should be dealt with as one rather than as a mainline engine.
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