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Stitch1615
Steam Legend!!
Joined: 08 Apr 2011
Posts: 4123
Location: Dunedin, FL
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 Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Bugsy wrote: | I'm kind of wondering why I started this thread.
Phil |
Hey Phil,, don't take offense. It's a great thread.
It's a lively discussion that has sort of taken on a life of it's own
while deviating as far from the original thought as it might possibly get. 
My guess is that most of us old farts, and a few younger ones too,
might not have anything else to say today except for your random posting.
I believe you are to be congratulated. 
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Stitch
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BK
Steam Legend!!
Joined: 28 Oct 2008
Posts: 6366
Location: S E Queensland, Australia
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 9:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Bugsy wrote: | I'm kind of wondering why I started this thread.
The point of this excercise is for a group of engineers to try and improve the efficiency of a 75 year old locomotive.
Isn't that applaudable?
| Quote: | | CSR’s early research suggests that the test locomotive will be cheaper to fuel and maintain than regular diesel-electric models, while also offering quicker acceleration and better horsepower output at higher speeds ... and, of course, it will run cleaner. If the demonstration project is successful, however, trains could be merely a starting point for biocoal-fueled steam power |
Isn't this relative to the interests of the members of this forum?
Phil |
I really enjoyed your thread Phil, I had a good giggle at Max going off about a company that has nothing to do with the project at all.
I hope it works out, but in the long run with watering and coal loading points it will probably be shelved. 
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Bugsy
Steam Supreme Being
Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 11106
Location: Sala, Sweden
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Stitch and BK.
I was wondering where the Colonial Sugar Refinery came into the picture, don't remember reading anything about them in the original article.
Phil |
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Stitch1615
Steam Legend!!
Joined: 08 Apr 2011
Posts: 4123
Location: Dunedin, FL
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| scorpion2nz wrote: |
Clear the forest,grow Palms ,Crush the kernals for the oil that gets used for everything to keep the world going .
The byproduct used to be dumps in heaps and burnt as no use for it
some bright spark OK we can use it for animal feed 
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I suppose everyone, but Japan, has figured it was better then squeezing it out the arse of a whale.
So far all the "Green" I see just cost us more money for the things we already have.
If we'd just use them a bit more sensibly we could stuff all the "Green Experts" and save a huge amount of money.
That's money we could be spending on eBay.
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Stitch
Hot Tip: Never kick a fresh turd on a hot day.
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scorpion2nz
Steam Legend!!
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 5681
Location: Hawkes Bay NZ
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 10:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Bugsy wrote: | I'm kind of wondering why I started this thread.
The point of this excercise is for a group of engineers to try and improve the efficiency of a 75 year old locomotive.
Isn't that applaudable?
| Quote: | | CSR’s early research suggests that the test locomotive will be cheaper to fuel and maintain than regular diesel-electric models, while also offering quicker acceleration and better horsepower output at higher speeds ... and, of course, it will run cleaner. If the demonstration project is successful, however, trains could be merely a starting point for biocoal-fueled steam power |
Isn't this relative to the interests of the members of this forum?
Phil |
sorry Phil I got side tracked .
I am sure it will be an interesting project
but BioCoal what is that supposed to mean
real underground coal is still Biocoal how ever you look at it
as it was made from biological greenery with no interference from mankind
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Wandering-Willie
Steam fanatic
Joined: 12 Jan 2009
Posts: 1464
Location: Barnsley, S.Yorkshire, UK
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| Posted: Fri May 25, 2012 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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I really cant see this engine turning a wheel, as if its anything like the 5AT (think thats what it was) it will get to the planning stages, then BANG, the plan is shelved never to be looked at again.
Also, breaking the steam loco record, they would need to completly rebuild the engine, probable streamline it etc.
Cheers
Allan
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redryder
Steam Supreme Being
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 10131
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 12:03 am Post subject: |
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Right, Bugsy...... It is always of interest if a steam engine of any kind can be made more efficient.
As for carbon neutral.... correct me please if I am mistaken but isn't a regular old steam engine running on firewood carbon neutral?
After all, doesn't burning wood simply release the carbon it absorbed while it was growing as a tree?
By the way, the most efficient reciprocating engine ever built to my knowledge was the large steam diesel for ships. Top side of the piston was diesel and the bottom side was steam. Never took off after the first couple went into service as the operator now needed to be certified as a steam engineer and as a diesel engineer. Most men who went to that trouble and effort left the sea to become marine surveyors, allowing them a family life.
Gil
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Stitch1615
Steam Legend!!
Joined: 08 Apr 2011
Posts: 4123
Location: Dunedin, FL
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| redryder wrote: |
By the way, the most efficient reciprocating engine ever built to my knowledge was the large steam diesel for ships. Top side of the piston was diesel and the bottom side was steam.
Gil |
Interesting. I've never heard of those.
I have seen the triple pass engines in a Liberty Ship.
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Stitch
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redryder
Steam Supreme Being
Joined: 08 Dec 2007
Posts: 10131
Location: Connecticut, USA
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| Stitch1615 wrote: | | redryder wrote: |
By the way, the most efficient reciprocating engine ever built to my knowledge was the large steam diesel for ships. Top side of the piston was diesel and the bottom side was steam.
Gil |
Interesting. I've never heard of those.
I have seen the triple pass engines in a Liberty Ship. |
It was a clever design. You can see it here.
http://www.douglas-self.com/MUSEUM/POWER/still/still.htm
Gil
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ministeamer
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Joined: 30 Apr 2009
Posts: 1667
Location: Thornleigh, north-west of Sydney
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 7:55 am Post subject: |
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| MODmanMax wrote: | I am sorry but an electric train makes more sense.
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Ah, but remember where the electricity used to power these comes from. In Australia, we don't have nuclear power plants, so in the end, both locomotive types are powered by burning coal.
I'd love to see this idea seriously considered, and further research made. I'll maintain an optimistic view on the idea, as I reckon with more modern technologies, it'd be possible to make a much more efficient steam locomotive than the ones made three quarters of a century ago.However, I can't imagine that the English people would be particularly happy about having Mallard's 126MPH record taken from them.
Here's a thing:
http://www.world-nuclear.org/info/inf34.html
(In terms of nuclear-powered warships and submarines.)
'Nuclear propulsion systems... Have long core lives, so that refuelling is needed only after 10 or more years, and new cores are designed to last 50 years in carriers and 30-40 years (over 1.5 million kilometres) in most submarines'
That's not bad fuel economy. |
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spanner_monkey
Junior Member
Joined: 16 May 2011
Posts: 374
Location: Doncaster, England
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sarfraz
Steam fanatic
Joined: 17 Apr 2011
Posts: 1221
Location: North Coast NSW
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| spanner_monkey wrote: | | Quote: | | I can't imagine that the English people would be particularly happy about having Mallard's 126MPH record taken from them. |
I wouldnt be particularly thirlled.  Plus the fact that with new rules and regulations we would never be allowd the oppertunity to take it back. |
Second that 
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johnreid
Steam God!
Joined: 06 Sep 2007
Posts: 27409
Location: Friendship Indiana, USA
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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Part of the interest in this fuel is that it is sustainable, eventually Coal will be less available and it takes thousands of years to make more. Plus the effort is to come up with a low sulfur and cleaner burning fuel, yes burn anything and it produces byproducts but hopefully a fuel can be found to produce fewer by-products. And YES the key word is STEAM
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zzubnik
Steam Legend!!
Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 2846
Location: Norwich, UK
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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Thorium powered reactors driving steam turbines, powering the grid and charging electric vehicles is the way forward.
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MODmanMax
Steam Legend!!
Joined: 27 Jan 2012
Posts: 2199
Location: Perth Western Australia
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| Posted: Sat May 26, 2012 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Bugsy wrote: | I'm kind of wondering why I started this thread.
The point of this excercise is for a group of engineers to try and improve the efficiency of a 75 year old locomotive.
Isn't that applaudable?
| Quote: | | CSR’s early research suggests that the test locomotive will be cheaper to fuel and maintain than regular diesel-electric models, while also offering quicker acceleration and better horsepower output at higher speeds ... and, of course, it will run cleaner. If the demonstration project is successful, however, trains could be merely a starting point for biocoal-fueled steam power |
Isn't this relative to the interests of the members of this forum?
Phil |
I should probably take the time to read the fine print. CSR etc .
Still it got the ball rolling for a lively discussion.
Apart from the miss reading of the name it is still a crock and sounds like some one is trying to get a grant for useless research.
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