The Unofficial Mamod and Other Steam Forum

Dragon · Junior Member Joined: 09 Jun 2009 Posts: 134

I guess this is where I say "Hi", though I've kinda done that already if you read the Whistle weight thing.

Anyhoo,

I'm from the volcanic mountains of South West London and the Sulfurous Fumaroles have given me an idea...

My interest in metalwork is mainly artistic rather than engineering based, but I'm fairly familiar with a variety of techniques, so I'm not too concerned at expanding my knowledge in this direction.

Basically what's (should that be Watt) brought me here is the thought that it might be interesting to power some sculpture by steam engines rather than little electric motors. That it's possible I have no doubt; Hello Mr Crabfu. My investigations at the moment are concerned with...

How?

How expensive?

How powerful?

etc.

I've seen the mamod and wilesco Traction engines and I quite like the look of the Mamod SE3 twin Cylinder machine. A couple of afternoons on eBay seem to suggest that I could obtain a suitable engine for around £60 which is not beyond my budget, but how much torque could I expect from that kind of machine?

I've seen some interesting descriptions of "scratch built" engines which might be worth investigating too. An oscillating type engine appears to be well inside my capabilities, but how might one maximize the energy one can get out of that kind of system?

Charles

alan2525 · Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:53 pm Post subject:

Firstly, welcome to the Forum!

Can you show us some photos of your artwork? I like the sound of steam powered kinetic artwork, mind you though some of the finest replica model engineering beam engines are works of art in themselves and the motion as they operate can be quite hypnotic.

I think with reasonable gearing you could generate a reasonable amount of power to operate a mechanism, even from a little oscilating cylinder. Would it be something akin to an automata? Could derive inspiration from the little tinplate workshop models.

CuriousSteam · Posted: Thu Jun 11, 2009 11:57 pm Post subject:

Welcome!!! From New York U.S.A.
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Questions, Questions, Questions

kusuchi · Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 12:28 am Post subject:

A warm welcome from Richard and Andrew in the US Virgin Islands.

Crabfu inspired kinetic artwork.

Lets see some of your sculptures and someone should be able to recommend the appropriate engine to drive them.

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Richard

http://www.youtube.com/user/kusuchi

Dampfmaschine · Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 1:39 am Post subject:

from the nightshift in Scotland

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Stuart

My website:
http://www.toy-steam-museum.co.uk/

Les · Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 6:18 am Post subject:

Hello and welcome from Bournemouth.

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Les - Don't panic - it's your round next.

http://www.bucketofsteam.co.uk/

Dragon · Junior Member Joined: 09 Jun 2009 Posts: 134

Pictures of my work?

yes, errrm,

Wouldn't that be nice.

Let's just say I use the digital camera on my mobile phone a lot.

To be honest, the whole "art" thing is a relatively new departure for me, after losing my job and a variety of personal problems I took it up as a kind of therapy, and it kind of grew...

and grew...

Ahhemm!

I've always been fascinated by kinetic art, right from the mobiles that hung from my bedroom ceiling when I was a VERY small person. As I grew I learned about physics and engineering and wanted to make my own mechanisms, but it's only really recently that I've been able to explore such things.

I enrolled on a "Metal Sculpture" course a while ago and quickly discovered that my tutor while an excellent artist, wasn't so skilled in the engineering side and I'm often left to experiment. Which means in fact that I'm learning HUGE amounts but in a rather haphazard manner. As I said, I can now weld using a variety of techniques. I can use gas and plasma cutting tools, and even have a reasonable working knowledge of their internal workings, (which is fascinating in itself).

So I'm starting to look at alternative approaches and a project that I can achieve without pushing the envelope too far.

For a long time I've been fascinated by Rolling ball sculptures, and that is partly what cased this diversion into the art world in the first place. Looking at sculptures in exhibitions and such I found myself thinking "I could do that" and "would it be nicer if it did such and such".

And so I have been acquiring materials and skills over recent weeks, months, years to enable me to build such a device. My first attempt in that direction was rather ambitious even by my own standards of perfectionism, and it is clear that that project will have to wait a while for my abilities (and my workshop, sorry, back garden) to catch up.

This summer I'm looking at building a much smaller, tabletop sized machine. Consider this;

http://www.crabfu.com/steamtoys/steam_roller/

Imagine the "rails" made from 2mm Brass, and the "spacers" brass rings (22mm olives). The support structure could be more brass, some nicely grained wood, or even clear acrylic (I know I don't have the skill set to work with glass). The lift mechanism in that model is an Archimedes screw type, and I might choose to go for a "wheel lift" rather like a water wheel, but you are starting to get the picture. I'm thinking that if I'm careful about how I position the lift I should be able to hook it up to a variety of possible motors, from the basic electric model type, to anything else that might be available.

I completely understand what you say about some engines being works of art in their own right, and my thought is to try to extend that hypnotic fascination through the mechanism.

Or at least that's the plan at the MOMENT!

Experience shows that these things are prone to change and evolve at times.

Roly Williams · Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:56 am Post subject:

Direct from the crankshaft, there is very little torque in most steam toys. However, they tend to be high enough speed so that you can get usefull power by gearing down, either by belts, chains or gears, or a combination. If you only want slow speeds then you should be able to drive quite large "mobiles".

You are right to take your inspiration from Crabfu. He's the king of using steam to power wierd and wonderful things. However, he usually uses more powerful engines than those found in most toys.

It's difficult to offer advice because you are venturing into unexplored teritory. My best advice is experiment. Trial and error can produce fantastic results. That's how Crabfu started.
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Regards
Roly Williams

"Opportunity is missed by most people, mainly because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work" (Thomas Alva Edison)

Dragon · Junior Member Joined: 09 Jun 2009 Posts: 134

Reduction is definitely the way to go, a wheel lift driven at crankshaft speeds would probably throw marbles in all directions at alarming speeds. I think I'll probably develop the idea so that the main wheel is driven by a belt or band from some kind of Lay Shaft or Counter Shaft, not quite sure of the difference, but I'd have a set of stepped pulleys to drive the wheel and a second set driven by the motor, so there are plenty of options for speed and power take off.

I'm sure I can manage to construct an oscillating type engine, and multiplying cylinders should be relatively straight forward. I'm less confident about the whole double acting sliding valve thing, though I know that they are going to yield much more power. So I'm not even sure whether to buy a ready made engine or to build my own, let alone the kind of features to look out for in terms of power output etc.

For now, I'm going to concentrate on the sculptural elements and save the final decisions on motive power for a later date until I know more about which kind of engine to look at and why.

Keep steaming,

Charles

dampfmaschinenjoe 1967 · Posted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:18 pm Post subject:

Hi, and a very big

from Germany!

I like it to find another person who is inspired by the Steam Punk ideas of CRABFU ! I like his Conversions of buyable engines into something very unique. The "Steam Robots", as I call them , have been very interesting to me. I am not half as skilled as I used to be by seeing these pieces of engineering art. They are mindblowing !

Cheers Joe

Alf · Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 8:37 am Post subject:

kevininasia · Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 8:07 am Post subject:

Oops, late as always, but welcome from Singapore!
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Regards,
Kevin

We live in a wonderful world that is full of beauty, charm and adventure. There is no end to the adventures that we can have if only we seek them with our eyes open.
Jawaharlal Nehru

Dragon · Junior Member Joined: 09 Jun 2009 Posts: 134

Never mind kevin.

I have to say that I find this forum very welcoming and friendly (compared to some similar facilities in the virtual world).

Wallace · Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 10:23 am Post subject:

Been missing a lot of these new member welcomes

Anyways, welcome to the forum Dragon.

Also, welcome to all the other new members

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Cheers
Andrew

http://www.freewebs.com/mamodsteam/

steamyjim · Posted: Wed Jul 08, 2009 10:05 pm Post subject:

Welcome to the forum

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"Teaching boys to bake cakes? That's no way to maintain an industrial empire." Dr Fred Dibnah MBE

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