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mogogear
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Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 8215
Location: Portland Oregon
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 Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 3:56 am Post subject: |
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A very rough and dirty sketch of what I think could be --
I theorize a pre-machined insert for the hollow piston- this may or may NOT be at all- But it would make it easier to make - insert and solder in place and finish drilling the port holes through to the piston face. The ball jointed small end of the piston rod could be held in place with a circlip
What say you [all]?? 
Alternate arrangement- Possible the ball joint recess could be actual split in a top half and a bottom half and the ball joint itself sandwiched between the two halves .
I know I must be mad as I have not had a beer since Lent started- come on Easter!!! 
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WeedenSteam
Steam Legend!!
Joined: 01 Mar 2009
Posts: 2453
Location: Port Coquitlam, B.C. Canada
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 5:16 am Post subject: |
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If anybody figured this out they certainly earned the 5 pounds.
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Frank C.
http://weedensteam.com
"A candle lighting another loses nothing." |
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Roly Williams
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Joined: 02 Aug 2006
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Location: Lambourn, Berks.
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| WeedenSteam wrote: | | If anybody figured this out they certainly earned the 5 pounds. |
I wonder if Bryant is still alive. If he is, I bet he's laughing at us STILL trying to puzzle this out
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Roly Williams
"Opportunity is missed by most people, mainly because it is dressed in overalls and looks like work" (Thomas Alva Edison) |
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STEAMPROPULSION
Steam fanatic
Joined: 10 Jul 2009
Posts: 1251
Location: TORINO. ITALY
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 7:44 am Post subject: |
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I have thought about that too!
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GIOVANNI
SKIPE name: ark.gsorrentino |
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kno3
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Joined: 21 Mar 2009
Posts: 816
Location: Bucharest
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 6:00 pm Post subject: |
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Hi all,
I've gotten my engine back today. I haven't disassembled it yet (long day at work) but will do so this weekend.
Anyway, I have looked and can tell you two things:
1. The pistons turn, the piston rods don't turn at all.
2. The crank pins seems to be parallel to the crankshaft, nothing skewed.
So, whatever makes the pistons turn must be inside the piston, where it is connected to the piston rod (I have previously established there is nothing inside the cylinder to guide the piston, just a smooth bore and the intake and exhaust ports).
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scorpion2nz
Steam Legend!!
Joined: 27 Apr 2008
Posts: 5681
Location: Hawkes Bay NZ
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:15 pm Post subject: |
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| kno3 wrote: | Hi all,
I've gotten my engine back today. I haven't disassembled it yet (long day at work) but will do so this weekend.
Anyway, I have looked and can tell you two things:
1. The pistons turn, the piston rods don't turn at all.
2. The crank pins seems to be parallel to the crankshaft, nothing skewed.
So, whatever makes the pistons turn must be inside the piston, where it is connected to the piston rod (I have previously established there is nothing inside the cylinder to guide the piston, just a smooth bore and the intake and exhaust ports). |
does that mean that my theory in a previous post is somewhere the mark
| scorpion2nz wrote: | does the piston rod turn or just the piston
I would favor just the piston turning and the conrod not
I would also think the conrod connected to the piston via a pin that fits into slots inside the piston skirt that are straight (not curved) and also on an angle .
you will ask how to get the slots inside the piston skirt ??
easy they will be cut into pipe that is then slid inside the piston skirt and soldered into place .
but what would I know as I am only a Kiwi who has not seen one |
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Dennis |
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hellequin
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Joined: 24 May 2010
Posts: 630
Location: north east
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| It looks like a few people are going to make this engine? |
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kno3
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Joined: 21 Mar 2009
Posts: 816
Location: Bucharest
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 8:48 pm Post subject: |
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Who?
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mogogear
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Location: Portland Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:01 pm Post subject: |
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I say if we can figure this out - a Forum effort!
We could fund this site for years to come ......what a great claim to fame - resurrect the engine!
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Mo (greg)
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Bugsy
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Joined: 28 Jan 2009
Posts: 11106
Location: Sala, Sweden
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:22 pm Post subject: |
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Doesn't that agree with what I wrote previously about the text on Moose's site?
| Bugsy wrote: | OK, I couldn't stand the suspense so I had a look at Moose's sight.
I pinched this explanation, surely Odilon won't mind. 
| Quote: | "The designer's ingenuity centres on the fact that the engine has no traditional valve gear. Inlet and exhaust ports are drilled in the sides of the cylinders about half way down so that they are covered by the pistons except when ports cut in these pistons coincide with them. The little end of the connection rod terminates in a ball and socket joint within each piston instead of the conventional gudgeon pin. This, in addition to allowing the usual back and forth movement of the rod due to the crank also permits the pistons to move round horizontally in the cylinders. Movement of a few degrees each way as the pistons rise and fall is imparted by pins set in the balls at about 45 degrees engaging in slots in the pistons. On the down stroke the piston is brought into coincidence with the steam inlet by this movement and on the up stroke the exhaust port is uncovered. Special shaping of these ports give early cut-off and the engine is quite economical of steam. The action is not unlike a sleeve valve and the porting arrangements are somewhat reminiscent of a diesel fuel injection pump. The exhaust note has a nice sharp bark for a tiny engine"
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mogogear
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Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 8215
Location: Portland Oregon
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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| Bugsy wrote: | Doesn't that agree with what I wrote previously about the text on Moose's site?
| Bugsy wrote: | OK, I couldn't stand the suspense so I had a look at Moose's sight.
I pinched this explanation, surely Odilon won't mind.
| Quote: | "The designer's ingenuity centres on the fact that the engine has no traditional valve gear. Inlet and exhaust ports are drilled in the sides of the cylinders about half way down so that they are covered by the pistons except when ports cut in these pistons coincide with them. The little end of the connection rod terminates in a ball and socket joint within each piston instead of the conventional gudgeon pin. This, in addition to allowing the usual back and forth movement of the rod due to the crank also permits the pistons to move round horizontally in the cylinders. Movement of a few degrees each way as the pistons rise and fall is imparted by pins set in the balls at about 45 degrees engaging in slots in the pistons. On the down stroke the piston is brought into coincidence with the steam inlet by this movement and on the up stroke the exhaust port is uncovered. Special shaping of these ports give early cut-off and the engine is quite economical of steam. The action is not unlike a sleeve valve and the porting arrangements are somewhat reminiscent of a diesel fuel injection pump. The exhaust note has a nice sharp bark for a tiny engine"
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Yes sir --I posted it as a source document from which Moose quoted it from, and you then quoted ..
You are King Dear Bugsy!!...Dennis too.
I just came along and wandered in your tracks after reading all that followed.
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Mo (greg)
His Most Noble Lord Admiral Mo, the Apocalyptic of Old Tonbridge Wafers
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Dean W
Steam Legend!!
Joined: 28 Jul 2010
Posts: 6271
Location: N. Idaho, USA
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| Posted: Thu Apr 05, 2012 10:56 pm Post subject: |
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Just so you all know in advance; When someone actually pulls the pistons from their bores and shows how
this works, I'm going to tell you I knew it all along. Fair warning. 
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Cowboy
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Joined: 03 Jun 2011
Posts: 500
Location: State of Jefferson
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 12:49 am Post subject: |
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It is starting to look like Mogogear and Scorpion2nz may have it figured out.
I sure would like to have one of these engines but they probably are way over my budget. |
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mogogear
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Joined: 01 Feb 2008
Posts: 8215
Location: Portland Oregon
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| Posted: Fri Apr 06, 2012 3:42 am Post subject: |
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| Cowboy wrote: | It is starting to look like Mogogear and Scorpion2nz may have it figured out.
I sure would like to have one of these engines but they probably are way over my budget. |
I am behind Dennis and Bugsy!! I am a slower thinker and rampant poor typing editor.
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Mo (greg)
His Most Noble Lord Admiral Mo, the Apocalyptic of Old Tonbridge Wafers
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kno3
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Joined: 21 Mar 2009
Posts: 816
Location: Bucharest
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| Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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I have disassembled the Bryant valveless as far as it would go. Meaning I got the pistons out of the cylinder. I'll tell you up front that I still don't know exactly how it works, but at least I saw enough to be able to disprove with 99% certainty some of the theories:
1. Skewed crankpins: FALSE - they are parallel to the crankshaft, as with every other engine.
2. Rifling or some other guides in the cylinder: FALSE - the cylinders are perfectly smooth, the only have the 2 lateral holes for exhaust and admission.
3. Piston rod turning: FALSE - it doesn't turn, just the piston turns.
Here are a few things I could establish:
a. The tops of the piston rods have a ball end, you can see the underside.
b. The pistons turn less than a quarter turn.
c. They can move sideways on the ball end but not equally far in all directions. Sort of a D - shape.
So there has to be some kind of pin inside the piston, on the ball end of the piston rod, which must slide in some shaped slot(s). What exact configuration it has still eludes me.
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